Missing images after first shoot with SL3

[Photoworks]

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On 7/4/2024 at 9:47 PM, Werner55 said:

I just checked with my SL3

Firmware: 1.1.0

CFe Lexar 512GB 1750MB/s

SD Lexar 512GB 1800x

Memory Option: CFe = SD

DNG only (no jpg)

Adjusted the File name when I received the camera from L to S

My quick test:

I took 3 photos took the SCL6 battery out and another SC6 battery in (hot swap) and took 3 photos: no image lost

Did the same and swapped it with a SCL4: no image lost

Did the same with cold swap: no image lost

Please let me know if you you would like me to test differently.

yes, can you please test it another 1000 times and report back only when you lose images?

It does not happen all the time.

In my case I didn't even power down and switch the battery, my shoot was only 2 hours and enough to look at about 200 images. So the problem is bigger than switching batteries.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 7/5/2024 at 6:18 AM, Jonathan Levin said:

With all due respect and sympathy for those with this issue, it takes seconds to power down the camera before switching out battery. In the manual Leica says to power down when changing pretty much anything: lens, card, and battery. I don't see a downside to that. Unless you are photographing a horse race. FWIW

Under NO circumstances should any camera overwrite files already on a card. EVER. We all get that if you pop a battery, you lose the files in the buffer. But files already on the card? Nope. Unacceptable. And if your SL3 is asleep there's literally no way of telling if it's asleep or off. So, you're shooting a wedding, and you need to check by switching the camera on and then off again before you can change a battery? Rubbish! *If* the SL3 had an indicator letting you know the camera is asleep, maybe. But I still would argue a camera NEVER overwrites files without direct user intervention.

Leica's announcement seems to indicate they agree. I love my SL3's but I do think the new button tried to solve a problem that didn't exist and now it's bitten Leica in the arse. My money is on the SL4 having a normal on off switch. Hopefully around the shutter button where it should be.

At some point Leica need to stop releasing cameras with beta software and expand their testing pool. And some more software engineers. I'd not have a feeling of job security if I was on the firmware team at Leica, right now. No camera should be released with a bug like this. How did this not get discovered? Or did it and Leica released anyway?

Gordon

[LocalHero1953]

34 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

My money is on the SL4 having a normal on off switch.

I've been hoping the SL3-S would have this. I suspect you're right though.
If we are offered a SL3-S, there will be two things to check before I look at one: overwrite/corruption problem solved*, and an intuitive way of handling and displaying power sleep/off.

 

*without switching off the camera

Edited July 8, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

Well, you might be lucky if the SL3S will be a Leicafied S5ii, which looks not unlikely, as underground rumour has it that Panasonic cooperated with Leica in the design phase. Sticking close to Panasonic might prevent such screw-ups.

[Ken Abrahams]

Mr Gordon’s last sentence in his above post-reply is something we will probably never know. I hope so anyway. It does have the smackings of a good Tele movie in a few years time. The SL4 will be released by then hopefully. 

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

At some point Leica need to stop releasing cameras with beta software and expand their testing pool.

Seeing how rarely that happens, I doubt that expanding the testing pool would have helped.

However, there are software techniques (e.g., preemptive debugging) that catch more bugs than any system testing can catch. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Seeing how rarely that happens, I doubt that expanding the testing pool would have helped.

However, there are software techniques (e.g., preemptive debugging) that catch more bugs than any system testing can catch. 

Seems paying customers found this bug, in numbers in a very short time. I found the flash bug in the 601 in less than a day because I used flash every day. First thing I checked. And since I don’t do much video there’d be holes the size of a volkswagen I’d miss there.

I know a few of the testers and they’re good people who do their best. But they shoot what they shoot. Leica seems to have journos, travel photographers, commercial shooters and the odd fine art and landscape photographer.  No release day videos or reviews from wedding or event photographers. It would be better to have a studio photographer test tethering than a travel photographer, yes? (just an example). So if they don’t have a studio photographer then they should get one. Same for event photography where fast paced, high volume flash photography will get tested. Same for basic sports. For landscapes. For video. But especially events where Leica is a very viable option. 

And it’s not rare. It’s EVERY new Leica camera for the last few years And every firmware upgrade either doesn’t fix it or adds more issues. If we had just this, people would understand. But the numbers who won’t buy in or upgrade is growing every day. Leica makes Landrover look reliable, right now.

Beta testing is thankless work. So thanks to those that do. Leica need to widen the pool, that’s all. I don’t want to be doing it for them after I’ve paid for my camera. Before, if they want me to.I like the brand. I should with the hundreds of thousands I have in Leica gear. But it’s just so tiring to have such great hardware and interface with such lousy half baked release software. Just as they fix it they’ll release the next camera and we’ll be beta testers again.

Gordon

[Olaf_ZG]

9 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

No camera should be released with a bug like this. How did this not get discovered? Or did it and Leica released anyway?

Gordon

They didn’t learn nothing from the m11. I guess they’re still high of their best profitable year ever, and 95% of forum members hussing problems down like they don’t exist. They live in a bubble. Till it burst.

There are many Leica lovers here who would love Leica to be as they are for many years. I do like Leica, bought have into their systems (SL, M), but if they fail, I couldn’t care less. Old m’s will be around and so will either the SL or Panasonics.

Leica should wake up quickly, cause their old inheritance of Leica lovers are for sure - in general- not the youngest ones, and I am not sure how loyal the new gen Q lovers is.

[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Seems paying customers found this bug, in numbers in a very short time. I found the flash bug in the 601 in less than a day because I used flash every day. First thing I checked. And since I don’t do much video there’d be holes the size of a volkswagen I’d miss there.

I know a few of the testers and they’re good people who do their best. But they shoot what they shoot. Leica seems to have journos, travel photographers, commercial shooters and the odd fine art and landscape photographer.  No release day videos or reviews from wedding or event photographers. It would be better to have a studio photographer test tethering than a travel photographer, yes? (just an example). So if they don’t have a studio photographer then they should get one. Same for event photography where fast paced, high volume flash photography will get tested. Same for basic sports. For landscapes. For video. But especially events where Leica is a very viable option. 

And it’s not rare. It’s EVERY new Leica camera for the last few years And every firmware upgrade either doesn’t fix it or adds more issues. If we had just this, people would understand. But the numbers who won’t buy in or upgrade is growing every day. Leica makes Landrover look reliable, right now.

Beta testing is thankless work. So thanks to those that do. Leica need to widen the pool, that’s all. I don’t want to be doing it for them after I’ve paid for my camera. Before, if they want me to.I like the brand. I should with the hundreds of thousands I have in Leica gear. But it’s just so tiring to have such great hardware and interface with such lousy half baked release software. Just as they fix it they’ll release the next camera and we’ll be beta testers again.

Gordon

Yes.
When selecting beta testers, Leica should strive to get a variety of photographer (based on their photography style). On the other hand, it may be hard to find people who have time to spend bet testing a camera.

[jaapv]

10 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes.
When selecting beta testers, Leica should strive to get a variety of photographer (based on their photography style). On the other hand, it may be hard to find people who have time to spend bet testing a camera.

On the profile page of our forum members the question : are you willing to become a beta tester is answered with “yes “  by 95%. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

On the profile page of our forum members the question : are you willing to become a beta tester is answered with “yes “  by 95%. 

I wonder how many would be indeed be willing to put in the necessary work, and how many would just like to play with an unreleased camera.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I wonder how many would be indeed be willing to put in the necessary work, and how many would just like to play with an unreleased camera.

Rather dismissive towards our members I would say. 

[Simone_DF]

Beta testers should be paid. 

[Chun Chang]

On 7/8/2024 at 10:37 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And it’s not rare. It’s EVERY new Leica camera for the last few years And every firmware upgrade either doesn’t fix it or adds more issues. If we had just this, people would understand. But the numbers who won’t buy in or upgrade is growing every day. Leica makes Landrover look reliable, right now.

I have owned most recent Leica cameras going back 10 years and do not experience issues with hardware or firmware.  My SL3 does not write over images.  My M11 once froze due to corrupt SD card but not since.  

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 minutes ago, Chun Chang said:

I have owned most recent Leica cameras going back 10 years and do not experience issues with hardware or firmware.  My SL3 does not write over images.  My M11 once froze due to corrupt SD card but not since.  

Me too. And longer than that. And I've also had *relatively* few issues. But more than any other brand I've used. And those that did often had a workaround that I could implement. That doesn't mean they're not real, just that we have been lucky to avoid them because we shoot in a way that doesn't show the issues. Because the camera doesn't show the difference between sleep and off in the long run everyone will get bitten, eventually by a bug like this. Some won't even know as they don't remember every frame they shot. Some won't care. A wedding photographer sure will though.

Gordon

[Ken Abrahams]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:32 PM, SrMi said:

I wonder how many would be indeed be willing to put in the necessary work, and how many would just like to play with an unreleased camera.

For me it would be both 😀 The way I use a camera for night train shots, some street movements and other long exposures techniques wouldn’t be using your average camera settings. In this way beta testers can bring bugs to the surface instead of having half a dozen photographers with similar styles using similar settings and not comprehensively testing the unit. 
 
The SL3 has been out in the wild for over four months and no one came across the 1/16000 second shutter speed glitch! Well one person on the forum did and quite early in the piece but he was ignored and branded a troll until I found the issue when trying to shoot f1.4 in bright conditions. 
 

Beta testers don’t need to be well known photographers or the best photographers but they do need to know their way around a camera and a Leica camera. They need to shoot in the way they normally do and make the camera work for them.