Missing images after first shoot with SL3

[jaapv]

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I’m no expert on corporate finances, but I expect that the financial streams will not influence one another significantly. The problem Leica has is staffing though, not money. Finding an IT expert who is capable of writing relatively conplcated software like camera firmware is near-impossible to find, and those that are around are being snapped up by the weapons industry.  The same with customer service. They have plenty of vacancies but no candidates to fill them. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

this is a very serious bug. Hopefully at the very top of Leica’s list.

I see how it may have been missed in testing. And likely they are working on it. It may just be a bitch to find. I’ll give them that. But they and some other companies would do well to learn from the Japanese and make announcements when they find serious bugs so the buying public know they’re being taken seriously. It looks like almost all the M11 freeze bugs have been finally sorted but they lost a lot of brand confidence in the way they handled it.

And how hard would it be to have a little snoring *Leicon* on the top LCD screen when the camera is asleep? Mind you the X2D has the same no idea if it’s on or not policy with their button.

I’ve never tested if this was an issue on the older cameras. I always switched the camera off and it was obvious it was off. Maybe my SL2 does the same thing (so for I haven’t been able to recreate this bug in limited attempts)? The new button now looks like a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.

Gordon

[dasjak]

So I just did more testing. Sometimes it doesnt affect the camera, when you just release the battery without turning off. Sometimes it does. You see it when you insert the battery again and the camera comes back up very quick, it never deleted pictures. When it does take longer to boot up and you see the Leica logo, the images are gone. Interestingly, when sometimes when the bug occurs, it does show images again that havent been shown the round before. So it does keep them somewhere...I will test more to see if that bug also appears if you turn off the camera properly before releasing the battery.

It´s just really annoying all in all. I am immensely lucky, that the client is very understanding albeit frustrated that loads of images are gone.

it doesnt matter what type of card you are using it seems...

[beewee]

42 minutes ago, dasjak said:

So I just did more testing. Sometimes it doesnt affect the camera, when you just release the battery without turning off. Sometimes it does. You see it when you insert the battery again and the camera comes back up very quick, it never deleted pictures. When it does take longer to boot up and you see the Leica logo, the images are gone. Interestingly, when sometimes when the bug occurs, it does show images again that havent been shown the round before. So it does keep them somewhere...I will test more to see if that bug also appears if you turn off the camera properly before releasing the battery.

It´s just really annoying all in all. I am immensely lucky, that the client is very understanding albeit frustrated that loads of images are gone.

it doesnt matter what type of card you are using it seems...

Sounds like some kind of race condition that could be partly a hardware design limitation.

A properly robust system design would have a means to detect that the battery has been ejected while having sufficient capacitance in the power rail to allow the processor to finish clearing the memory buffer and gracefully close files and put the file system in a safe state before fully draining the capacitor. A software fix would require the firmware to be able to detect that the battery was ejected, and if needed, reduce the power consumption significantly enough as soon as battery ejection was detected, to do the same controlled/graceful system shutdown without any hardware changes. Neither option is likely quick or easy.

The hardware fix option would mean that cameras already in the market would be stuck with the issue unless Leica does a recall to affected units. A software fix, if power consumption reductions are needed could take quite some time.

If I were Steffen Rao at Leica, I’d get hardware changes in ASAP and then also try to come up with a software fix to address problems in cameras that have already been sold to customers.

[dasjak]

Oh I have another bug that’s really funny.

when I press review button and look through the last images, the numbers change. At first last image has number 104 and the one before has 101, half press shutter to go back to shooting mode, than immediately  back to review and the numbers AND the images change. i have this on video under the link here:

https://www.picdrop.com/andreasjakwerth/VPyrShJowu
 

So far I cannot reproduce this bug on my SanDisk SD card, only on my angelbird cfe!

the card in the video is already affected by the bug which might cause the numbers jump. 

what the hell is going on???

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, dasjak said:

Oh I have another bug that’s really funny.

when I press review button and look through the last images, the numbers change. At first last image has number 104 and the one before has 101, half press shutter to go back to shooting mode, than immediately  back to review and the numbers AND the images change. i have this on video under the link here:

https://www.picdrop.com/andreasjakwerth/VPyrShJowu
 

So far I cannot reproduce this bug on my SanDisk SD card, only on my angelbird cfe!

the card in the video is already affected by the bug which might cause the numbers jump. 

what the hell is going on???

was the card formatted?

Did you look on the computer and they had the same numbers?

It is very possible in different folders. that is not the actual file number changing. after you passed the last photo review you go back to Nr 1

To see the file name turn dail to zoomed out view

[Mikko Kankainen]

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I was also lucky and did not loose that customer because of a long history together. But it could have happen.

I am quite sure that suspend is the issue, I have not loose any pictures since that one suspend case. And I also bought a grip so I dont have to remove battery.

I would like to know what is the status of this repair, I just get autoresponse "on holiday" from the person that got back to me. And I'm sure you did already but send every bit information to Leica. 
I'm not a software engineer but common sense says, do the thing you do to the files when camera shuts down also when came goes to suspend.

[dasjak]

7 hours ago, Photoworks said:

was the card formatted?

Did you look on the computer and they had the same numbers?

It is very possible in different folders. that is not the actual file number changing. after you passed the last photo review you go back to Nr 1

To see the file name turn dail to zoomed out view

no that is what i meant when I mentioned its the affected card. so not formatted. i still have the hope to find my missing pictures on the card somehow...

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, dasjak said:

no that is what i meant when I mentioned its the affected card. so not formatted. i still have the hope to find my missing pictures on the card somehow...

in my case the photos were not deleted, they were never saved, and all the recovery software didn't find any.

[Mikko Kankainen]

Same here. 

[dasjak]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

in my case the photos were not deleted, they were never saved, and all the recovery software didn't find any.

they have been saved cause I did review them on camera. and also now, sometimes when I redo the bug without formatting, it shows photos again that were hidden before. it´s just so weird...

[Mikko Kankainen]

Yes I also did review them. They were there but then lost. Overwritten is my quess. 

[Mikko Kankainen]

Leica sent an email.

They know about this issue. They say that: "data may be lost if the camera has been switched off in an uncontrolled manner." So suspend/freeze ->battery out can make images to get overwritten, in my and other case many hundreds of images.

And they are working to make firmware fix asap. 

[beewee]

On 6/14/2024 at 8:00 AM, Mikko Kankainen said:

Leica sent an email.

They know about this issue. They say that: "data may be lost if the camera has been switched off in an uncontrolled manner." So suspend/freeze ->battery out can make images to get overwritten, in my and other case many hundreds of images.

And they are working to make firmware fix asap. 

I’m glad they’re finally acknowledging the issue.

I wish companies would be more forthcoming with acknowledging issues.

I’ve been on the other side and I know it’s a tough position. However, customer trust is hard to build and easy to lose and if companies don’t take that seriously, their longterm business will suffer.

[wintersmith]

I experienced missing photos during a wedding i captured in May aprox 50 mins 300 plus photos. Battery was on flashing red prior to me changing it for a full battery. Only some weeks later did I discover this when I came to edit the wedding. It is a catastrophe! I have been speaking to and trying to resolve this issue with Leica UK customer care who have been terrible. Ive eventually received a statement fro Leica Germany on 26th June - as follows...

The Leica brand stands for outstanding art of engineering and high-quality premium products 'Made in Germany', which are manufactured in compliance with the highest quality standards and guarantee long-lasting product quality. Providing a first-class Leica product experience to ensure long-term customer satisfaction is our constant goal.

Unfortunately, with the current firmware of the Leica SL3, the camera malfunctioned in individual cases, which can lead to images that have already been saved being overwritten unnoticed. We deeply regret this. Our highest priority is to restore the perfect functionality and usual reliability of your Leica SL3 as quickly as possible. To this end, we are working intensely with our development team to provide you with a firmware update to fix the error as soon as possible.

Until the new firmware is finalized, we strongly recommend that you handle the camera carefully to minimize the risk of data loss. Please make sure to always switch off the Leica SL 3 completely before changing the battery, as the error can occur if the camera was not switched off properly, for example when changing the battery in standby mode or after the camera software crashed. In such cases, we recommend backing up the images immediately or changing the memory card. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience.

 

I am very upset by this and on the brink if wanting to change systems but I suspect they wont give a full refund for the SL3 if I try to return it. It's shocking that they have now confirmed the problem and yet are still selling the bodies but not informing any clients of the problem. They are knowingly selling faulty goods not fit for purpose. 

[jaapv]

It is indeed an unacceptable situation. However, I suspect that you have a legal right to return your camera for a full refund as “ unfit for purpose “. 

[JTLeica]

2 hours ago, wintersmith said:

I experienced missing photos during a wedding i captured in May aprox 50 mins 300 plus photos. Battery was on flashing red prior to me changing it for a full battery. Only some weeks later did I discover this when I came to edit the wedding. It is a catastrophe! I have been speaking to and trying to resolve this issue with Leica UK customer care who have been terrible. Ive eventually received a statement fro Leica Germany on 26th June - as follows...

The Leica brand stands for outstanding art of engineering and high-quality premium products 'Made in Germany', which are manufactured in compliance with the highest quality standards and guarantee long-lasting product quality. Providing a first-class Leica product experience to ensure long-term customer satisfaction is our constant goal.

Unfortunately, with the current firmware of the Leica SL3, the camera malfunctioned in individual cases, which can lead to images that have already been saved being overwritten unnoticed. We deeply regret this. Our highest priority is to restore the perfect functionality and usual reliability of your Leica SL3 as quickly as possible. To this end, we are working intensely with our development team to provide you with a firmware update to fix the error as soon as possible.

Until the new firmware is finalized, we strongly recommend that you handle the camera carefully to minimize the risk of data loss. Please make sure to always switch off the Leica SL 3 completely before changing the battery, as the error can occur if the camera was not switched off properly, for example when changing the battery in standby mode or after the camera software crashed. In such cases, we recommend backing up the images immediately or changing the memory card. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience.

 

I am very upset by this and on the brink if wanting to change systems but I suspect they wont give a full refund for the SL3 if I try to return it. It's shocking that they have now confirmed the problem and yet are still selling the bodies but not informing any clients of the problem. They are knowingly selling faulty goods not fit for purpose. 

I was sent this same message by my Leica Dealer as a precaution.

This might have been covered already, but its interesting that its mostly Wedding photogs having the issue... i.e. people that are taking a lot of images in quick succession, could be to do with the buffer being interrupted? 

Anyway, I will go back and read the whole thread now but thought I would chime in being an SL3 user. I am off to cornwall again, and it will be my primary camera so I want to mitigate issues. I have not had any problems so far.

[JTLeica]

One question actually, if storage management is set to CFe = SD (which is the backup setting I think?) do the missing files or corrupted or overwritten files also get mirrored to the SD?

Dont mean to Hijack

[giganova]

So you are removing the battery while the camera is powered on? 🙈

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[andybarton]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is indeed an unacceptable situation. However, I suspect that you have a legal right to return your camera for a full refund as “ unfit for purpose “. 

Depending upon how long you have had the camera, you might also be able to use your credit card insurance.