S4 wish list

[Chaemono]

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It will likely be the camera to end all GAS, with Midjourney 7 (😂) 

BSI sensor with colors of the S3 sensor

IBIS

Much better EVF than in the SL2/-S/3

Flippy screen

PDAF

Shutter sound of the SL2/-S

No second top left wheel

Power button like the SL3

Use of full sensor with M/L-mount lenses (unlikely)

No fringing with M-mount lenses (unlikely as they fringe like hell on higher res sensors and some on the SL2-S but not much on the Nikon Z7 for some reason)

Cheap adaptors for S/SL/M/TL-mount lenses (unlikely, LOL)

Content Authenticity chip (to distinguish images from Midjourney 7 😂)

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[helged]

My wish: (Almost) Any mirrorless platform that accepts existing S-lenses. Tick. And that the same platform accepts long focal length L-mount lenses. Tick. And that the price tag is tropospheric, not stratospheric. Remains to be seen. 

[irenedp]

I think I am more than well served with what I have in MF. Initially I wouldn’t be game for the S4. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I would like the opposite of basically everything Chaemono asked for, lol.

I would like the S control implementation to be retained. That is more like the original SL. (I don't think I will get this).

I would like a power switch like the S cameras and the SL cameras. (I don't think I will get this either).

The ability to use M, S and L mount lenses with fully functional adapters or, better yet, native L mount.

4x5 sensor aspect ratio (I expect 3:2 or at best 4:3, but 4x5 would be my ideal).

Color like the SL2/SL2S, not S3 (I think people posting here regularly probably know that I hated the S3 stock color from adobe. It is fine with Cobalt). Even better if they could make it like the S2/S006, only with modern DR.

If you cannot give that color by default, I would love it if they offered multiple color options. Not the typical "portrait, landscape etc", but emulations of their own cameras, a totally neutral and accurate repro profile. So if you did not like the default color, you could choose "Like S2 colors", "Like S3 colors", "Neutral" etc. I am not sure if this is possible or practical, but it would be nice.

I would like it to have the best EVF they can put in it...as no compromise as possible. Ideally with the same clear information style of the S viewfinder. Just a row of info on high contrast black background, not a white text overlay on top of the image, like in the SL3. I think that is one of the worst changes from the SL2 to SL3. 

Good long exposure capability and at least 10-15 minutes long exposure ability.

The main feature set from the SL2 cameras -- such as good video, stabilization, multishot and so on. I do not care about PDAF but I am sure it will be there.

100mp is enough. But I would not want less than that, otherwise the 35mm crop lenses would be too low resolution to make them practical for my use.

No AI involved anywhere, lol. I don't trust it.

[Stuart Richardson]

I should say on the lenses front too, because naturally it would come with new S lenses!

For those I would like them to be sized more like the 70mm than the rest of the S lenses, if possible. I would rather they focus on making them SL APO Summicron quality than make them with a central shutter, but that is just me.

I am happy with the focal lengths provided by the S cameras, but it would be nice to add the 55mm that is in the Thalia lineup. F2-2.8 is fast enough for me. If Leica can combine the sharpness, pure color and flat field of the SL APO Summicrons along with the character of the S lens bokeh and smoothness, that would be the ideal for me. I am sure this is a tall order.

I would rather they focus on making a truly excellent standard lens...the 70mm was a very good lens in the S system, but it was outshone by the 45mm and 120mm, in particular. It would be nice to have a 70mm that had flatter field and more like the APO Summicrons in terms of sharpness and lack of CA wide open.

I don't really need a zoom in MF, but if they do, I would hope they better make it better than the 30-90...more like 90-280mm performance levels than 24-90.

[John McMaster]

Automatic focus stacking....

john

[tom0511]

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just make it work fast and well with the "old" S-lenses, make it fast, deliver good profiles, good color above noise at ISO 125000.

I also would prefer 3:4 or even 4:5 above 2:3.

Please a price which is realistic. and a great viewfinder.

 

[Jon Warwick]

3:4 or 4:5 aspect ratio. Certainly not 2:3.

at least 100mp

focus stacking

a non-bulky prime in the 35-50mm equivalent in focal length. No zooms or other very bulky lenses to starts with.

Not talking here about XCD 38 or 55 size necessarily, rather I was using a GF 55 1.7 all weekend on a 100mp body, and the lens reminded me of the size of the S 70mm. A good size to handle, IMHO

Edited March 17, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[ZHNL]

As long as it take old S glasses, it is a buy for me.
in additional to that, For adapting S glass, having the option of focus wide open by default but give the option for focus at shooting aperture. 
focus more on optics of EVF than resolution. I personally don’t feel 9.3M EVF is much better than 5.7M. 
for new native S glass, take size and bokeh/rendering over corner sharpness at wide aperture, as long as it is sharp at f8 for corner, I am good. 
it is really easy for S4 to be successful compare to SL line, the bar is very different. Just make a good industry design, it is already a win. 

[Pieter12]

Someone should send a list of all these prospective buyers to Leica. They will be delighted, I'm sure.

[Stuart Richardson]

12 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

Someone should send a list of all these prospective buyers to Leica. They will be delighted, I'm sure.

I think there is a lot of pent up demand for an updated S body. At least to my mind, the S3 was the camera they should have launched instead of the S007 (that is, going to 64mp right away). I think they shot themselves in the foot from a market perspective. Megapixels are not everything but Leica doubled down on that philosophy, but were victims of their own lack of marketing savvy. They made it harder to sell their camera by keeping the megapixel count the same between the S006 and S007, as cameras with higher resolutions and similar performance were rapidly being introduced to the market. Users like me who liked the S006 and its color were less motivated to switch if they did not need live view and high ISO as resolution in the S007 was, if anything, slightly lower than the S006 and S2 (the CCD was a bit sharper), and people from outside the system found it a hard sell to buy a 20,000 dollar camera with 6-8000 dollar lenses that had the same resolution as a 3000 dollar D800 or less than an A7Rii with an otus lens, let alone what Fuji and Hasselblad were doing. So it made it hard to isolate who the S was for. Was it for people who wanted a resolution boost over 35mm? Not really. With top end lenses resolution was comparable. It was for the most part lower than that of Fuji and Hasselblad, especially after the GFX100. It became a very niche system, largely confined to people who wanted Leica lenses specifically, or who were willing to spend eight or ten times the price of a 35mm kit to have better color and great ergonomics. Those are very good reasons, but not compelling enough to persuade a large swath of the camera buying public.

In any case, this history has been hashed and rehashed again and again. The S cameras are/were great, but they struggled to find a niche fairly quickly after launch, as the market was upended by mirrorless and high resolution 35mm. I loved the SLR format, but all the advantages of mirrorless are quite hard to ignore, and I think that there will be a proportionally larger pool of interested users in an S4 than there was in the S3, assuming Leica prices it not TOO far out of reach, and assuming the features are compelling. At this point I think there is a lot of pent up demand by users who love Leica lenses and Leica look, but want to use a medium format system that has more modern features (EVF, stabilization, better AF etc). All the more so if it has broad compatibility with the smaller format lenses as well.

Edited March 18, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[ZHNL]

6 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think there is a lot of pent up demand for an updated S body. At least to my mind, the S3 was the camera they should have launched instead of the S007 (that is, going to 64mp right away). I think they shot themselves in the foot from a market perspective. Megapixels are not everything but Leica doubled down on that philosophy, but were victims of their own lack of marketing savvy. They made it harder to sell their camera by keeping the megapixel count the same between the S006 and S007, as cameras with higher resolutions and similar performance were rapidly being introduced to the market. Users like me who liked the S006 and its color were less motivated to switch if they did not need live view and high ISO as resolution in the S007 was, if anything, slightly lower than the S006 and S2 (the CCD was a bit sharper), and people from outside the system found it a hard sell to buy a 20,000 dollar camera with 6-8000 dollar lenses that had the same resolution as a 3000 dollar D800 or less than an A7Rii with an otus lens, let alone what Fuji and Hasselblad were doing. So it made it hard to isolate who the S was for. Was it for people who wanted a resolution boost over 35mm? Not really. With top end lenses resolution was comparable. It was for the most part lower than that of Fuji and Hasselblad, especially after the GFX100. It became a very niche system, largely confined to people who wanted Leica lenses specifically, or who were willing to spend eight or ten times the price of a 35mm kit to have better color and great ergonomics. Those are very good reasons, but not compelling enough to persuade a large swath of the camera buying public.

In any case, this history has been hashed and rehashed again and again. The S cameras are/were great, but they struggled to find a niche fairly quickly after launch, as the market was upended by mirrorless and high resolution 35mm. I loved the SLR format, but all the advantages of mirrorless are quite hard to ignore, and I think that there will be a proportionally larger pool of interested users in an S4 than there was in the S3, assuming Leica prices it not TOO far out of reach, and assuming the features are compelling. At this point I think there is a lot of pent up demand by users who love Leica lenses and Leica look, but want to use a medium format system that has more modern features (EVF, stabilization, better AF etc). All the more so if it has broad compatibility with the smaller format lenses as well.

I agree we have to carefully interpolate interests level between existing S user and outsider. Those who stayed either love S system or invest too deeply into system, the bar can be quite lower to current S users to have high IQ working system taking their S glasses. For outsider, feature like smaller lenses, competitive pricing and IBIS are quite important to have S system success. Having said that, the bar will be still much lower compare to SL competition they are facing. 

[shedboatshed]

I'm not sure. The entry point to medium format from Fuji is so affordable that I don't think the S4 will be very successful. I know a lot of people shooting GFX now and very little on Hasselblad X1D/X2D. The S4 will likely come in at a bit higher in price than the X2D. I imagine the only people interested in the S4 will be die-hard Leica users or people working with commercial budgets/income. The nice part about GFX is that virtually any working photographer, freelancer or full time or whatever, can afford to buy into it.

As for wish list, I really hope they do 3x4, or even better, 4x5 aspect ratio. IBIS will be a must, and a flop without. Since M11/SL3/Q3 are all 60MP, I'm guessing the S4 will be at 100MP like GFX and X2D (more than I care for but understandable). Past that, they don't really need to do much. As long as the new lenses will be smaller, lighter, and ideally slightly faster, people will be interested.

EDIT: Also hope to see dual UHS-2 SD card slots, or CFExpress Type A so regular SD card slots will work. CFExpress B is overkill and too expensive, but as long as they're the same card slot that would be much better.

Edited March 18, 2024 by shedboatshed

[tom0511]

What is interesting how often you see used gfx systems for sale.

[BernardC]

15 hours ago, shedboatshed said:

The entry point to medium format from Fuji is so affordable that I don't think the S4 will be very successful.

I think the USP for the S4 will be its ability to use L-mount lenses via an adapter, meaning that it could potentially replace two cameras. This proposition would be especially compelling if it offers equivalent performance to the SL3 with L-mount lenses, and a similar size.

15 hours ago, shedboatshed said:

Also hope to see dual UHS-2 SD card slots, or CFExpress Type A so regular SD card slots will work. CFExpress B is overkill and too expensive, but as long as they're the same card slot that would be much better.

I don't see any benefit to type A, other than the fact that you can put SD cards in a type A slot. Type B cards are cheaper to buy, which will probably still be the case in 2025.

[Guest]

On 3/18/2024 at 6:46 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I think there is a lot of pent up demand for an updated S body. At least to my mind, the S3 was the camera they should have launched instead of the S007 (that is, going to 64mp right away). I think they shot themselves in the foot from a market perspective. Megapixels are not everything but Leica doubled down on that philosophy, but were victims of their own lack of marketing savvy. They made it harder to sell their camera by keeping the megapixel count the same between the S006 and S007, as cameras with higher resolutions and similar performance were rapidly being introduced to the market. Users like me who liked the S006 and its color were less motivated to switch if they did not need live view and high ISO as resolution in the S007 was, if anything, slightly lower than the S006 and S2 (the CCD was a bit sharper), and people from outside the system found it a hard sell to buy a 20,000 dollar camera with 6-8000 dollar lenses that had the same resolution as a 3000 dollar D800 or less than an A7Rii with an otus lens, let alone what Fuji and Hasselblad were doing. So it made it hard to isolate who the S was for. Was it for people who wanted a resolution boost over 35mm? Not really. With top end lenses resolution was comparable. It was for the most part lower than that of Fuji and Hasselblad, especially after the GFX100. It became a very niche system, largely confined to people who wanted Leica lenses specifically, or who were willing to spend eight or ten times the price of a 35mm kit to have better color and great ergonomics. Those are very good reasons, but not compelling enough to persuade a large swath of the camera buying public.

In any case, this history has been hashed and rehashed again and again. The S cameras are/were great, but they struggled to find a niche fairly quickly after launch, as the market was upended by mirrorless and high resolution 35mm. I loved the SLR format, but all the advantages of mirrorless are quite hard to ignore, and I think that there will be a proportionally larger pool of interested users in an S4 than there was in the S3, assuming Leica prices it not TOO far out of reach, and assuming the features are compelling. At this point I think there is a lot of pent up demand by users who love Leica lenses and Leica look, but want to use a medium format system that has more modern features (EVF, stabilization, better AF etc). All the more so if it has broad compatibility with the smaller format lenses as well.

You are making entirely too much sense. I was just chided by an old friend this morning who objected to me having purchased the S007 recently. He argued I should have bought one of the Fuji 100MP offerings. Funny thing is, he himself has two 007 and three S3 sitting in his cabinet.

[Sarnian]

16 minutes ago, HandofSand said:

Funny thing is, he himself has two 007 and three S3 sitting in his cabinet.

Can you ask him to pick some lottery numbers for me!!

[Milan_S]

All i wish for is adapting S lenses, if there is a new line of S4 lenses I wish they will have the same characteristics as the S lenses in an updated design. Closer focus faster focusing. My second wish is that the S4 will focus faster more precise, more AF points and a very good EVF.

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[Pieter12]

Is Leica monitoring this forum or are these all letters to Santa?

[tom0511]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Pieter12:

Is Leica monitoring this forum or are these all letters to Santa?

I hope they do and it would be clever if they did (IMO).

Edited March 20, 2024 by tom0511