debating between Noctilux 50/1.2 (re-issue) and Summilux 50/1.4 (2023)

[patrickcolpron]

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18 hours ago, Drmat said:

I have the 50 APO and the 50/1.2.  I think they pair better together than either does with the 50 Lux.  If i were to own one lens, it would be the 50APO or the 50/1.4.  In a two lens combo, the 50 Lux did not make sense to me.

I owned the 50 Lux.  Great lens.  As others have said, stopping down the noctilux to 1.4 does not render even close to the same as the lux.  Completely different beasts.

50/1.2 is not for everyone.  When it is good, it is great. When it is not, you have the 50 cron!

You are right in regards to the pairing, the APO 50 and 50/1.2 are a perfect 50 pair. 

I have four 50 mil lens, the APO, the Lux and the 50/1.2 are 3 of these four 50, but if I had to keep only one, I'd hold on the to the 50/1.2. 

It is my most used 50 mil lens. It is great at f/4 to f/8, great color rendition, contrast and sharpness, good enough for what I do. This said the APO provide better colors and contrast with a fast fall off giving you even better separation from your subject and background than the Nocti or the Lux does, but... 

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... but it is the only one which opens up to f/1.2, and can be sharp wide open when shooting from 1 meter away. This is my youngest last night who fell asleep ion the kitchen table at dinner time after running all day. Made a f/1.2 with an M10 with an SF 60 bounced off the ceiling, iso 400. I cropped my wife's hand on the right side as it was not lit properly by the flash which was set to 1/128 power. 

Small files don't do justice to the image quality out of the 50/1.2 

I love how small the APO 50 is, for street it is great but much prefer the ergonomics of the 50/1.2 and I love looking at that huge front glass and how perfectly round the aperture blades are at f/1.4. 

[fil-m]

11 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I am keen on seeing the dreamy look of 50 APO wide open as I do not have that lens. Does anybody have some samples?

By "dreamy", common knowledge expects a magic mix of slightly soft in-focus areas, with glow under the right lighting conditions in addition to a rich panoply of optical aberrations that graciously work together to reinterpret the image or add something to it.

The APO50 have almost none of those; it is a razor sharp lens with full control of the light (except for the flare under some conditions). However its smooth OOF and sharp/rapid fall off can be used to make special pictures in which the subject stands out in its beauty. That's in addition to its nice "out of the box" color rendition. There is a full APO50 thread with images, some (few?) of them make good use the APO 50 "signature". Personally, it takes me way more effort to make good use of the APO50's signature compared to, say, the Cron 50 rigid and 50/1.2 remake that I have and which always "add something" to the image by themselves, even when I don't ask for their help  . Said differently and to me, it is more difficult to make interesting pictures with the APO50 compared to the others, but that's maybe just me.  

Here are some candid shots which I believe highlight the special "personality" of the APO50, the sharpness of the subject, smooth background and transition, plus the colors/tonality.  (very little cropping to compensate for my fatal tilting flaw :)) 

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[Rollei35]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

Indeed but the OP said his copy is dreamy.

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There seems to be lots of concerns/disagreements on the word of my choice. I refer the following as "dreamy", at least it's dreamy to me.

It's an indoor dinning setting, light was dim, background was noisy. I was sitting across front my younger one, so the distance was about ~1 meter. The APO 50 was set to be wide open at f/2. Camera was M11, ISO6400, shutter 125.

It's a cropped jpeg, no other post editing was done at all.

You may not agree it's dreamy. But I like this kind of feeling and I want to see more of this kind, that's why I delved into 50/1.2

 

Edited March 17, 2024 by Rollei35

[evikne]

40 minutes ago, Rollei35 said:

There seems to be lots of concerns/disagreements on the word of my choice. I refer the following as "dreamy", at least it's dreamy to me.

It's an indoor dinning setting, light was dim, background was noisy. I was sitting across front my younger one, so the distance was about ~1 meter. The APO 50 was set to be wide open at f/2. Camera was M11, ISO6400, shutter 125.

It's a cropped jpeg, no other post editing was done at all.

You may not agree it's dreamy. But I like this kind of feeling and I want to see more of this kind, that's why I delved into 50/1.2

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You seem to have inadvertently touched the aperture ring, because the slightly jagged bokeh balls above her head reveal that the aperture was not fully open, but probably around f/2.4-2.8. Of course, this has no bearing on your point.

Edited March 17, 2024 by evikne

[Rollei35]

11 hours ago, evikne said:

You seem to have inadvertently touched the aperture ring, because the slightly jagged bokeh balls above her head reveal that the aperture was not fully open, but probably around f/2.4-2.8. Of course, this has no bearing on your point.

You are probably right. I looked at the DNG it says f/2.2, which is 1/3 stop slower than f/2. Obviously there isn't 1/3 stop there. So now I am not sure if it's f/2 or f/2.4.

[Rollei35]

11 hours ago, Al Brown said:

And here is the full TIffen chart explaining what each of their numerous diffusion filters does. Absolutely no need to purchase another 50 lens for this if you are already loving your favorite one (the 50 APO I presume). Just smack a filter on top for the glow and dreamy effect without the additional coma and aberrations of the pre-aspherical lens formulas. Their filters are not like smearing vaseline or putting a stocking over your lens. They have probably the biggest use case experience in producing these filters, as shown below.
Damn, I am not even getting paid for this. Every single of their filters I have was paid honestly and dearly.

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Nice chart, too late though. My 50/1.2 is on the Fedex plane now.

[evikne]

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5 hours ago, Rollei35 said:

You are probably right. I looked at the DNG it says f/2.2, which is 1/3 stop slower than f/2. Obviously there isn't 1/3 stop there. So now I am not sure if it's f/2 or f/2.4.

Look into the front of your lens while turning the aperture ring. When the aperture blades are shaped exactly like the bokeh balls in the photo, it is set to the aperture you used.

[JoshuaR]

Just revisiting this older thread. As it happens, I own these two lenses—50 Lux ASPH and 50 f/1.2 Reissue. They are my only fifties. Like @patrickcolpron, I find that I want to use the 50 f/1.2 almost all the time. Although the Noctilux is a little bigger and heavier, they're basically the same size. Meanwhile, the rendering of the Noctilux is much more pleasing to me, especially for spontaneous portraits of my family. For example, here are two similar portraits of my daughter, both shot wide open, the first with the 50 Lux ASPH, the second with the Noctilux:

"On the phone" with the 50 Lux ASPH:

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At sunrise with the 50 f/1.2 Reissue:

The difference is the rendering is pretty obvious, I think. It's true that wide open the Noctilux is a little soft if you're not at exactly 1 meter MFD. (This portrait is a little soft.) But I still prefer the images I get with the 1.2 -- they are just more beautiful to me. They look exactly how I want them to look. Recently I went on a vacation and brought, as my two-lens kit, the 28 Summicron v1 (my main lens these days) and the 50 f/1.2. While it was absolutely true that the Noctilux was a little unpredictable in bright and harsh light, I overall found that it was ideal for how I use a 50, which is mainly as a casual portraiture lens. I didn't miss the 50 Lux ASPH at all. And I really love the way the pictures look when shot at f/2.8 and f/4, as well. 

My preference has been so stark that I'm now considering selling the 50 Lux ASPH. I don't think that it makes sense to own both lenses simultaneously. I'm asking myself whether it might make sense to have a smaller, lighter "snapshot" or "documentary" 50 to go with the Noctilux -- maybe a 50 Summarit or Cron v5, something that's easier to slip into a pocket. (I've owned both of those lenses in the past and enjoyed them.) Or I could see trading it in for a focal length I don't currently own -- something like a 21 or 24 SEM. Who knows! My main point is that I've been thoroughly surprised by how well the 50mm f/1.2 reissue works as an everyday lens, if you use it the way I do. When I bought it, I never expected that it would become so central to my kit.

Edited May 2 by JoshuaR

[jakontil]

6 hours ago, JoshuaR said:

Just revisiting this older thread. As it happens, I own these two lenses—50 Lux ASPH and 50 f/1.2 Reissue. They are my only fifties. Like @patrickcolpron, I find that I want to use the 50 f/1.2 almost all the time. Although the Noctilux is a little bigger and heavier, they're basically the same size. Meanwhile, the rendering of the Noctilux is much more pleasing to me, especially for spontaneous portraits of my family. For example, here are two similar portraits of my daughter, both shot wide open, the first with the 50 Lux ASPH, the second with the Noctilux:

"On the phone" with the 50 Lux ASPH:

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At sunrise with the 50 f/1.2 Reissue:

The difference is the rendering is pretty obvious, I think. It's true that wide open the Noctilux is a little soft if you're not at exactly 1 meter MFD. (This portrait is a little soft.) But I still prefer the images I get with the 1.2 -- they are just more beautiful to me. They look exactly how I want them to look. Recently I went on a vacation and brought, as my two-lens kit, the 28 Summicron v1 (my main lens these days) and the 50 f/1.2. While it was absolutely true that the Noctilux was a little unpredictable in bright and harsh light, I overall found that it was ideal for how I use a 50, which is mainly as a casual portraiture lens. I didn't miss the 50 Lux ASPH at all. And I really love the way the pictures look when shot at f/2.8 and f/4, as well. 

My preference has been so stark that I'm now considering selling the 50 Lux ASPH. I don't think that it makes sense to own both lenses simultaneously. I'm asking myself whether it might make sense to have a smaller, lighter "snapshot" or "documentary" 50 to go with the Noctilux -- maybe a 50 Summarit or Cron v5, something that's easier to slip into a pocket. (I've owned both of those lenses in the past and enjoyed them.) Or I could see trading it in for a focal length I don't currently own -- something like a 21 or 24 SEM. Who knows! My main point is that I've been thoroughly surprised by how well the 50mm f/1.2 reissue works as an everyday lens, if you use it the way I do. When I bought it, I never expected that it would become so central to my kit.

Beautiful portraits…

my take is, if possible dont sell ur lux… we dont know what we missing till we lost it

i have lux asph, pre asph, noctilux 1.2, used to have the apo and noctilux 0.95 until recently… but now i miss especially the 0.95 where i thought it was too big and heavy

[T25UFO]

Considering 'sharpness', here are two photos taken on the reissue Noctilux.  Both cropped at 200%!  The B&W image at f2.8 (M11 Mono) and the colour at f4.0 (SL3).

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