Trading SL2-S for SL3

[SrMi]

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3 hours ago, Tjazz said:

Helpful discussion guys. A couple of points and a technical question: First, I once had the SL2 and then traded it for the SL2-S for the better low light potential and more appealing color rendering. Second, hello my name is Tom and I’m a gear-a-holic.  I’m the same way with guitars and skis. Your responses are good therapy. I currently have the SL2-S and enjoy it with the 24-90 and the Apo 35. Plus I have the Q3 and Q2 Mono. If anything the mono has become a bit redundant with the Q3’s excellent mono rendering. My question: I shoot mostly outdoor nature and landscape with my SL2-S, primarily golden hours. Never tried multishot. How do you deal with nature’s subtle movements such as a leaf fluttering or a flower swaying?. Must the subject be completely still? If I can take advantage of this feature I can probably get the resolution I need without the SL3. Thanks. 

Leica SL2 has a motion artifact removal mode. In that mode, when in-camera software detects motion artifact during assembly of multishot, it will replace the motion artifact with an upscaled version of a single shot. The places where motion artifact was fixed has therefore more noise and less resolution. 

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[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Tjazz:

Helpful discussion guys. A couple of points and a technical question: First, I once had the SL2 and then traded it for the SL2-S for the better low light potential and more appealing color rendering. Second, hello my name is Tom and I’m a gear-a-holic.  I’m the same way with guitars and skis. Your responses are good therapy. I currently have the SL2-S and enjoy it with the 24-90 and the Apo 35. Plus I have the Q3 and Q2 Mono. If anything the mono has become a bit redundant with the Q3’s excellent mono rendering. My question: I shoot mostly outdoor nature and landscape with my SL2-S, primarily golden hours. Never tried multishot. How do you deal with nature’s subtle movements such as a leaf fluttering or a flower swaying?. Must the subject be completely still? If I can take advantage of this feature I can probably get the resolution I need without the SL3. Thanks. 

Try the Deblur AI Tool from BeFunky https://www.befunky.com/learn/fix-motion-blurs-with-deblur/

[FocusDot]

On 3/14/2024 at 1:09 AM, SrMi said:

SL3's DNG files are smaller than SL2-S's DNG files (40MB vs 45MB).

The ones I took when testing SL3 are ca. 86 MB

[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, FocusDot said:

The ones I took when testing SL3 are ca. 86 MB

Thanks for checking.

That is strange. I am sure I checked some files on my home computer before posting (I am now traveling and cannot access my files).

I checked again with SL3; for the same subject, I got 100MB for ISO 6400 and 76MB for ISO 100 images. That indicates some compression. Can others check in what range their SL3 file's disk space lies?

[algrove]

IMHO, anyone into video should just get a Red and not an SL3.

[Photoworks]

32 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Thanks for checking.

That is strange. I am sure I checked some files on my home computer before posting (I am now traveling and cannot access my files).

I checked again with SL3; for the same subject, I got 100MB for ISO 6400 and 76MB for ISO 100 images. That indicates some compression. Can others check in what range their SL3 file's disk space lies?

Leica says about 70MB for a DNG. 
Just like M11 I get between 70-100MB
I am sure the JPG preview, Light or dark image affect the size.

[algrove]

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On 3/13/2024 at 8:09 PM, SrMi said:

SL3's DNG files are smaller than SL2-S's DNG files (40MB vs 45MB).

Something's wrong with your numbers. Perhaps you mixed up camera results to get those numbers or you set it to M-DNG.

[SrMi]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:20 AM, hellobrandonscott said:

Whoa, really? How is that possible? My Q2 files are 2x my SL2-S files.

It seems that something was wrong with my numbers. SL3 files are larger than SL2-S files.

[tomasis7]

The size of the file depends on how busy the scene you get. Test to shoot a wall then a landscape, in forest for example

[Chaemono]

Decided to stick with the SL2-S and wait for the mirrorless S4, hopefully with the SL2-S shutter sound (and a flippy screen with no second top wheel).

Edited March 17, 2024 by Chaemono

[Tjazz]

I too have decided to step out of the SL3 queue and see how the user experience reports and firmware updates come in, as well as see whether an SL3-S is in the works. My   SL2-S works wonderfully, with a rendering and ease of use that are hard to beat. I employ the 24-90 SL beast along with the 100-400 SL, 35 APO SL, and a 20mm Sigma Art lens. Since I try to compose with minimal cropping, the 24MP seems fine. I do have a Q3 which gives me the 60MP sensor in a good travel package, and a Q2 M. I’ve concluded that the new gear endorphin rush was likely my prime driver for the SL3 so I’ll just step back and watch for a while.  

[lencap]

New cameras are exciting, and the SL3 is certainly a worthy competitor.  Despite the new release I can’t help but appreciate the reduced price Leica offered partnering the SL2-S body and the Leica SL 50mm f/2.0 Summicron lens for $5,895, the still current price.  That’s a nearly $1200 discount from non-bundled pricing.  On top of that Leica offered an additional $1,300 discount voucher toward the end of last year to further entice SL body buyers.

I took advantage of that offer, as I wrote about at the time, and at the combined reduced cost of $4,595 for a brand new Leica bundle with factory warranty, I couldn’t be happier.  Now with the SL3 released I have a lot of options about upgrading or not.  Given the discounted bundle price I can likely keep the SL2-S body I own, and add the SL3 if I want to.  The combination of the bundled prices and discount voucher was a “gift” from Leica, and made moving to the SL system from my Nikon Z system much easier to accomplish.

Bravo Leica!

[Chaemono]

I tried the SL3 with the 75 Noctilux for about one hour and had the SL2-S with me, too. Here are some thoughts on the SL3:

• Love the size
• Hate the grip (for heavier lenses a handgrip would be advisable)
• I don’t understand what all the noise is about with respect to the shutter sound
• It creates better files in high contrast scenes at low ISO than the SL2-S with more DR (didn't try high ISO)
• It’s better for M lenses wide open than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 if purple fringing bothers you at the point of focus
• Colors are not as punchy as the SL2-S colors (blacks are not as black) and perhaps need some vibrance added to them sometimes depending on one’s taste. But the combination of better AWB than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 makes the cooler colors a better starting point IMO. I’d say, this is a real improvement over the SL2-S and the SL2.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 75 Noctilux, the 50 Noctilux and probably most M lenses will be very synergistic with it. I often didn’t like the 75 Noctilux on the SL2-S, particularly when there were greens, browns and yellows in the scene.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 24-90 zoom will be very synergistic with it IMO. That lens creates very rich colors. 

If you are shooting portraits, landscape, or architecture the upgrade is probably not worth it. The low ISO files are visibly better in high contrast scenes, though, and if you crop there will be more texture to them. I wish that the grip were more comfortable with heavier lenses because the flippy screen and the more compact size make it more of a walk-around camera than the previous SL versions. Because of IBIS, how well it works with M lenses, and the cooler colors (as a starting point, for my taste), it’s an alternative to the M11 or at, least, it’s complementary.

Edited April 7, 2024 by Chaemono

[Dr. G]

On 4/7/2024 at 4:33 AM, Chaemono said:

I tried the SL3 with the 75 Noctilux for about one hour and had the SL2-S with me, too. Here are some thoughts on the SL3:

• Love the size
• Hate the grip (for heavier lenses a handgrip would be advisable)
• I don’t understand what all the noise is about with respect to the shutter sound
• It creates better files in high contrast scenes at low ISO than the SL2-S with more DR (didn't try high ISO)
• It’s better for M lenses wide open than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 if purple fringing bothers you at the point of focus
• Colors are not as punchy as the SL2-S colors (blacks are not as black) and perhaps need some vibrance added to them sometimes depending on one’s taste. But the combination of better AWB than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 makes the cooler colors a better starting point IMO. I’d say, this is a real improvement over the SL2-S and the SL2.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 75 Noctilux, the 50 Noctilux and probably most M lenses will be very synergistic with it. I often didn’t like the 75 Noctilux on the SL2-S, particularly when there were greens, browns and yellows in the scene.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 24-90 zoom will be very synergistic with it IMO. That lens creates very rich colors. 

If you are shooting portraits, landscape, or architecture the upgrade is probably not worth it. The low ISO files are visibly better in high contrast scenes, though, and if you crop there will be more texture to them. I wish that the grip were more comfortable with heavier lenses because the flippy screen and the more compact size make it more of a walk-around camera than the previous SL versions. Because of IBIS, how well it works with M lenses, and the cooler colors (as a starting point, for my taste), it’s an alternative to the M11 or at, least, it’s complementary.

I agree with you on all points, except one... sort of.  If you're shooting high contrast black and white architecture (or almost any high contrast black and white) with one of the APO Summicron-SL lenses, it is a big upgrade from the SL2-S.  Then again, the SL2 bettered the SL2-S in this category as well.  

[Chaemono]

I forgot to mention, it felt like the two front buttons weren’t as easily accessible with the ring finger anymore because everything is more cramped which affected fluidity of operations in A mode (bottom button assigned to ISO, top to focus magnification). It could have been just muscle memory because I was shooting the SL2-S “side by side.” 

[helged]

On 4/7/2024 at 10:33 AM, Chaemono said:

I tried the SL3 with the 75 Noctilux for about one hour and had the SL2-S with me, too. Here are some thoughts on the SL3:

• Love the size
• Hate the grip (for heavier lenses a handgrip would be advisable)
• I don’t understand what all the noise is about with respect to the shutter sound
• It creates better files in high contrast scenes at low ISO than the SL2-S with more DR (didn't try high ISO)
• It’s better for M lenses wide open than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 if purple fringing bothers you at the point of focus
• Colors are not as punchy as the SL2-S colors (blacks are not as black) and perhaps need some vibrance added to them sometimes depending on one’s taste. But the combination of better AWB than the SL2-S and probably much better than the SL2 makes the cooler colors a better starting point IMO. I’d say, this is a real improvement over the SL2-S and the SL2.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 75 Noctilux, the 50 Noctilux and probably most M lenses will be very synergistic with it. I often didn’t like the 75 Noctilux on the SL2-S, particularly when there were greens, browns and yellows in the scene.
• Due to the cooler colors, the 24-90 zoom will be very synergistic with it IMO. That lens creates very rich colors. 

If you are shooting portraits, landscape, or architecture the upgrade is probably not worth it. The low ISO files are visibly better in high contrast scenes, though, and if you crop there will be more texture to them. I wish that the grip were more comfortable with heavier lenses because the flippy screen and the more compact size make it more of a walk-around camera than the previous SL versions. Because of IBIS, how well it works with M lenses, and the cooler colors (as a starting point, for my taste), it’s an alternative to the M11 or at, least, it’s complementary.

I tend to agree on the grip, but I think this depends on the size of the hand. I have rather large hands, so the SL2x-grip is better for me. But after using SL3 since launch, I start to get used to it’s grip. But small it is (for my hand)…

[michali]

2 hours ago, helged said:

I tend to agree on the grip, but I think this depends on the size of the hand. I have rather large hands, so the SL2x-grip is better for me. But after using SL3 since launch, I start to get used to it’s grip. But small it is (for my hand)…

Thanks Helge. I've found the same, I also have large hands and preferred the SL2/S grips, but also getting used to it.

I find the left wheel a little awkward to operate- I've set it up for ISO.

Overall I like the camera and the colours it produces. I also find the DNGs straight out of camera need less PP, files are also less noisy than SL2 @ same high ISO.

I ended up with an SL3 last week (totally unplanned) the store owner sent me one & said if you don't like it you can return it....obviously not returned 💸💸💸  I've sold the SL2 & keeping the SL2-S as backup.

SL3 & Sigma 18-50mm -random shot out of the car window at about 130km (my wife was driving 😅) straight conversion from DNG to JPEG ISO640 @ 1/4000s -colours are accurate & pleasing for my eyes.

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Edited April 9, 2024 by michali

[FocusDot]

On 4/7/2024 at 10:33 AM, Chaemono said:

If you are shooting portraits, landscape, or architecture the upgrade is probably not worth it.

So what do you need to shoot for the SL3 upgrade to be worth it?
I am not being provocative, just genuinely curious about your opinion. 

Thanks for your inputs!

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[Chaemono]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb FocusDot:

So what do you need to shoot for the SL3 upgrade to be worth it?
I am not being provocative, just genuinely curious about your opinion. 

Thanks for your inputs!

Anything that doesn’t require a tripod or lighting IMO.

[helged]

3 hours ago, FocusDot said:

So what do you need to shoot for the SL3 upgrade to be worth it?
I am not being provocative, just genuinely curious about your opinion. 

Thanks for your inputs!

For me, having SL2-S (and using SL and SL2 before that), the main pluses for SL3 is the file size, the dynamic range, the colours, high ISO, tiltable screen (yes, it comes in handy now and then), and ok-ish working, for the first time, cAF.