Does the M11 Silver fetch a premium price over the M11 black?

[AnakChan]

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I'm looking at moving up from my silver Typ240 and currently looking at the M11 used market. It seems to me that at least the M11 black prices are dropping. However does (should) the M11 silver fetch a premium price over the M11 black? I'm seeing a difference of about USD$600-700 diff between the two.

P.S. Yes I"m aware of the different Al vs brass & weight difference.
P.P.S. rather strangely at least for the 50lux, I'm seeing that the silver luxes are cheaper than the black equivalent -that's opposite to the black vs silver camera bodies

[jgeenen]

Demand and prices often cannot be explained rationally. I assume that the chrome M11 gets the premium because of the more classic appearance and brass top, whereas the new black coating - although very durable - is considered as „cheap“. Often, opinions change over time: 10 years ago I bought a used M6 chrome from a dealer for 1000 Euro. The very same model now easily sells for 3000 Euro. In contrast, a German built M4in good condition was more expensive than the M6 back then, recently I acquired a chrome M4 for 1300 Euro (M4 variants seem to be - next to the M5 - the most reasonably priced entry into a film M system).

[Warton]

The price difference between silver brass and black chrome M11 is anecdotal.

I can easily find something proving the opposite to your case.

[M11 for me]

I imagine that the geography plays a role as well. Whereas in Europe the black cameras are more in demand in Asia its the silver bodies. 

[AnakChan]

Actually a potential reason provided to me is that it seems the M11 silver appears to be discontinued, and the only way to get an M11 silver would have to be the M11-P route.

[Rollei35]

8 hours ago, AnakChan said:

Actually a potential reason provided to me is that it seems the M11 silver appears to be discontinued, and the only way to get an M11 silver would have to be the M11-P route.

Not sure. I can find plenty of brand new m11 silver from Leica's dealer all over the places in Asia

[AnakChan]

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16 minutes ago, Rollei35 said:

Not sure. I can find plenty of brand new m11 silver from Leica's dealer all over the places in Asia

A seller mentioned it to me. However I also found a similar statement mentioned here :-

https://www.macfilos.com/2024/02/05/leica-in-2024-and-2025-whats-next-from-wetzlar/

Just a bit of background prior to creating this thread. I've had my M Typ240 for about 10 yrs now (prior to that I had M9, and over the past 23 yrs I owned the M6TTL for about 1 year before switching to the M7 which I still own).  I really enjoy the slimness of my former M6 and current M7, and after 14 yrs of the M9/Typ240 I'd like something slim. All of the M series I owned were silver/grey, as such looking at the M11 Silver (used).

Edited March 14, 2024 by AnakChan

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You are in for a treat going from an M240 to the M11.

I've had them all and the M11 actually weighs a bit less than my M7. It's finally back to even lighter than the M9. I am expecting a Silver m11 tomorrow and have an M11M.

I prefer black as it's about 20% lighter but got a good deal on a Silver and went for it.

Still, I'd get black as the lightness and feel of the camera is great but either way, it's a great camera!

 

[Kiwimac]

Not sure why, but personally I’ve never liked the silver cameras and haven’t owned one, Leica or otherwise, since my Canon AE1 Program in the mid 1980’s! Even that I wanted in black but there was a price premium in those days for black bodies in all makes - Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus being the main ones at the time.

I really want an M11 with proper black paint on brass though. 

[adan]

My local Leica sales rep told me, years ago, that - when new - Black M digitals outsell Silver about 4:1. I expect Leica now knows that, and produces black/silver cameras in about that proportion.

Which makes silver cameras "rarer" in the used marketplace, overall. Fewer to begin with, and sold to "silver camera fanatics" who may be less likely to part with them.

(My original M10 from 2017 is silver - and I specified silver when ordering, soley because I knew I would get one faster if I didn't compete with the crowd waiting for the black cameras (and got my M10 silver in 3 weeks!) 😁. And I ain't selling/trading mine any time soon.)

The lower weight of the black M11 may have skewed those proportions even more.

However, an additional factor may be that the black cameras show wear and tear faster than the silver ones - which might reduce their resale value more.

Scuff marks on the black digitals reveal a silver underlayer that is very obvious. Scuff marks on the "silver on silver" cameras barely show at all.

However, it may also be the case that the silver chrome finish is simply tougher than the black chrome used these days (not counting the "new" black finish on M11s).

Below shows my black-chrome M10-P (purchased used in 2022 and used vigorously by me for TWO years) vs. my original 2017 silver M10, after being used, just as vigorously, for SEVEN years..

(BTW - I don't have much problem with that. For me, Leica Ms are artistic and business tools, not "precious jewelry." To the very limited extent I care about it at all, I prefer "industrial chic.")

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[Warton]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:49 PM, adan said:

My local Leica sales rep told me, years ago, that - when new - Black M digitals outsell Silver about 4:1. I expect Leica now knows that, and produces black/silver cameras in about that proportion.

Which makes silver cameras "rarer" in the used marketplace, overall. Fewer to begin with, and sold to "silver camera fanatics" who may be less likely to part with them.

(My original M10 from 2017 is silver - and I specified silver when ordering, soley because I knew I would get one faster if I didn't compete with the crowd waiting for the black cameras (and got my M10 silver in 3 weeks!) 😁. And I ain't selling/trading mine any time soon.)

The lower weight of the black M11 may have skewed those proportions even more.

However, an additional factor may be that the black cameras show wear and tear faster than the silver ones - which might reduce their resale value more.

Scuff marks on the black digitals reveal a silver underlayer that is very obvious. Scuff marks on the "silver on silver" cameras barely show at all.

However, it may also be the case that the silver chrome finish is simply tougher than the black chrome used these days (not counting the "new" black finish on M11s).

Below shows my black-chrome M10-P (purchased used in 2022 and used vigorously by me for TWO years) vs. my original 2017 silver M10, after being used, just as vigorously, for SEVEN years..

(BTW - I don't have much problem with that. For me, Leica Ms are artistic and business tools, not "precious jewelry." To the very limited extent I care about it at all, I prefer "industrial chic.")

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Your theory of silver vs black doesn't apply to M11, because M11 has different material in silver and black.

 

 

[adan]

2 hours ago, Warton said:

Your theory of silver vs black doesn't may not apply to M11, because M11 has different material in silver and black.

I fixed that for you.

[lct]

Silver M11 because it does not freeze 😄 but also for the same reason as my M3, M4, M6J, M8.2 and M240. I don't like chameleon cameras 😉. Only exception explaining the reason, my black anodized M4-2 is not black any more but grey... after 40 years ...

[Photoworks]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:49 PM, adan said:

The lower weight of the black M11 may have skewed those proportions even more.

However, an additional factor may be that the black cameras show wear and tear faster than the silver ones - which might reduce their resale value more.

Scuff marks on the black digitals reveal a silver underlayer that is very obvious. Scuff marks on the "silver on silver" cameras barely show at all.

However, it may also be the case that the silver chrome finish is simply tougher than the black chrome used these days (not counting the "new" black finish on M11s).

Below shows my black-chrome M10-P (purchased used in 2022 and used vigorously by me for TWO years) vs. my original 2017 silver M10, after being used, just as vigorously, for SEVEN years..

you must like the "R" Straps. they wear the camera to the max. 

I have my M11 from the first day it came out and carry it everywhere, the only paint missing is on the ISO nob that is brass, and the power switch.

The M11 is very good.

[Photoworks]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:17 AM, AnakChan said:

P.P.S. rather strangely at least for the 50lux, I'm seeing that the silver luxes are cheaper than the black equivalent -that's opposite to the black vs silver camera bodies

the 50 Lux ASPH is almost double the weight of the black one, most people I know stop using it after a while.

The new 50 Lux close focus is the same as the black version. it is more expensive.  I have many Lux and Noctilux in silver and they hold up better over time.

[adan]

34 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

you must like the "R" Straps. they wear the camera to the max. 

Yep - see the neighboring thread about M10/M11 factory straps breaking (and letting cameras drop!) due to the sharp O-ring slots chewing them up.

I'm now black-taping the black cameras in the strap-rub region.

[pippy]

On 4/22/2024 at 2:49 AM, adan said:

...it may also be the case that the silver chrome finish is simply tougher than the black chrome used these days...

Below shows my black-chrome M10-P (purchased used in 2022 and used vigorously by me for TWO years) vs. my original 2017 silver M10, after being used, just as vigorously, for SEVEN years...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I'm slightly (understatement) surprised by how much wear the 'standard' Leica straps have caused to the finish!

I've no doubt you work your cameras far harder than I do mine but, even so, the wear on the black body after a mere two years' use seems rather extreme.

Just for the sake of comparison here's my pairing. Black is 'Black Paint' rather than Black Chrome and this finish is notoriously 'softer' than the B-Chrome cameras. Black has been used perhaps every other day since 2020. The Silver-Chrome came along approximately six months later and is taken along (probably) 80% of the time;

Incidentally this is probably a good indicator with regards how fine a job the plastic 'bumper' inserts do in terms of protecting the finish.

Philip.

Edited April 26, 2024 by pippy

[adan]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:50 AM, pippy said:

Incidentally this is probably a good indicator with regards how fine a job the plastic 'bumper' inserts do in terms of protecting the finish.

Exactly - but those plastic bumpers are no longer provided on M10s/M11s.

An engineering change Leica made, to both the supplied straps and the strap/camera interface - that was obviously not sufficiently tested under heavy long-term use.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296572-REG/leica_18575_leather_carrying_strap_black.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI__iDqbXmhQMVyCStBh1Ingt9EAQYASABEgK4AfD_BwE

- The plastic-locked D-rings in your photos, replaced by bare split O-rings, with sharp pointy bits at the entry ends of the splits.

- Your tough nylon-web straps replaced by thin-ply leather straps

- and a thin-leather oval bumper-pad on the strap itself, not on the camera. (use a different strap, you lose the camera/strap rub-protection).

All very chic and stylish.

Except that the exposed O-ring "splits" chew away at the strap's leather at the join, until it rips, depositing the camera - from a meter up - onto what surface you are standing on.

**CRUNCH**

I'll stick with a safe, secure strap and risk some wear marks, over a totalled camera or lens. 

However I am experimenting with home-installed "bumper" materials for my black M10s (good ol' black photo tape, for the moment - may try small adhesive stick-on picture-frame bumpers, but I expect their "stickum" won't last as long as the discontinued factory-installed bumpers).

 

[pippy]

7 hours ago, adan said:

Exactly - but those plastic bumpers are no longer provided on M10s/M11s.

An engineering change Leica made, to both the supplied straps and the strap/camera interface - that was obviously not sufficiently tested under heavy long-term use.

- The plastic-locked D-rings in your photos, replaced by bare split O-rings, with sharp pointy bits at the entry ends of the splits.

- Your tough nylon-web straps replaced by thin-ply leather straps

- and a thin-leather oval bumper-pad on the strap itself, not on the camera. (use a different strap, you lose the camera/strap rub-protection).

All very chic and stylish.

Except that the exposed O-ring "splits" chew away at the strap's leather at the join, until it rips, depositing the camera - from a meter up - onto what surface you are standing on.

**CRUNCH**

I'll stick with a safe, secure strap and risk some wear marks, over a totalled camera or lens. 

However I am experimenting with home-installed "bumper" materials for my black M10s (good ol' black photo tape, for the moment - may try small adhesive stick-on picture-frame bumpers, but I expect their "stickum" won't last as long as the discontinued factory-installed bumpers).

 

Ah! I hadn't known that, previously, you had been using the newer type straps, Andy, so that would explain matters.

I have no understanding (obviously) as to why Leica decided to ditch the 'bumpers' on the introduction of the M10. They had been a practical feature on M cameras since the early 1980s so I'm guessing that at least someone in Wetzlar appreciated their reasons for having them fitted. A case of 'Form Overruling Function' perhaps?

I, too, have one of those new straps - it came with the M-D Typ-262 - but after using it just once realised that the old-style nylon strap was a far superior product in every way which actually matters. Fortunately for me I had a spare 14312 lying around so the posh-looking leather strap has been put back in its box ever since that first outing.

For those days when I'm going to use a wrist-strap instead I have made a few small leather protectors which are fitted to those straps. Here's and example where a leather ERC-strap - which had simply snapped through use and old-age - has been modified to act in such a manner with my IIIc;

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Philip.

Edited April 29, 2024 by pippy

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