Why Servicing Leica takes so long?

[Gavbo]

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Firstly, thank you all for this wonderful group. Here’s another topic that’s been puzzling me for a long while.

Often hear CLA/repair/mods taking months. Surely it doesn’t actually take that long to work on a camera and most cameras are backlogged on shelves/boxes waiting.

Why most (if not all) repair companies can’t have a ticket logging system where you are placed in a queue and only send in when they are available or close to available? Priority shipping is so quick I can’t see this causing much delay.

Back story

I called a reputable Leica repair master in Hong kong ahead of time, told him I’ll be in town for a few days and asked if he could cla my m2. He told me to bring it in when I am in town.

fast forward …

I dropped with him as soon as I landed thinking as long as is ready before my exit I'll be HAPPY.

He wrote me a receipt and told me it’ll be ready the day after! Needless to say the work was impeccable!

I know this was a prioritized case but usually a cla shouldn’t take longer than a week at most from what I understood.

Where did it all go wrong? Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Edited March 11, 2024 by Gavbo

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[spero pa]

Leica repairer in London called Aperture has always been reliable for me and my Brilliant camera M3.

[Ecar]

 

[rsh]

I sent my 90-280 in two weeks ago.  All SL lenses have to go to Germany and the wait time is indeed 5 to 7 months.   It is what it is and fortunately, it is my least used lens.

Edited March 11, 2024 by rsh

[Smudgerer]

I've a M10-R in the Leica Warranty service/repair "swamp" at this time, been there now for two months with not even a word of when it is likely to be returned, but frankly I am used to it having been in the Leica Universe for quite a few decades.......Although in regards to the recent years I have to say that the wait-time is worse than ever it was before and why is that?.............Probably a couple of things:

1/ Leica does not have enough trained service people who can work of their range of cameras analogue through digital.

2/ Leica, although they have to be aware of the frustration of the long turn-around times, refuse to adopt a saner repair booking system whereby a repair is assessed online, an appointment is made for a repair to be done and the customer is messaged to send the item in say a couple of weeks prior to the "bench time" and the repairs then should only take a few days or so and returned to the customer in good time............And they seemingly refuse to properly support any third party repairers.

3/ Leica's Quality Control on new ready to be shipped out cameras seems to need some serious reform judging by the number of people in this forum and others reporting mal-functioning cameras and lenses right out of the store / box. I've been in that category more than once ever since Leica started with it's digital line of M's........Pretty much every camera save my M10-M, ( fingers crossed ), has needed after-sales attention.

3/ Leica just doesn't really give a damn because they know that their hard core of enthusiasts will moan about it all but come back for more when their next Leica camera develops a wobble. I doubt if any change will happen in this life.

4/ Fill in the blank, I am sure there's more..................

Edited March 11, 2024 by Smudgerer

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, Gavbo said:

Firstly, thank you all for this wonderful group. Here’s another topic that’s been puzzling me for a long while.

Often hear CLA/repair/mods taking months. Surely it doesn’t actually take that long to work on a camera and most cameras are backlogged on shelves/boxes waiting.

Why most (if not all) repair companies can’t have a ticket logging system where you are placed in a queue and only send in when they are available or close to available? Priority shipping is so quick I can’t see this causing much delay.

Back story

I called a reputable Leica repair master in Hong kong ahead of time, told him I’ll be in town for a few days and asked if he could cla my m2. He told me to bring it in when I am in town.

fast forward …

I dropped with him as soon as I landed thinking as long as is ready before my exit I'll be HAPPY.

He wrote me a receipt and told me it’ll be ready the day after! Needless to say the work was impeccable!

I know this was a prioritized case but usually a cla shouldn’t take longer than a week at most from what I understood.

Where did it all go wrong? Please feel free to share your thoughts.

That is the question of the decade. 

[Al Brown]

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49 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

I've a M10-R in the Leica Warranty service/repair "swamp" at this time, been there now for two months with not even a word of when it is likely to be returned, but frankly I am used to it having been in the Leica Universe for quite a few decades.......Although in regards to the recent years I have to say that the wait-time is worse than ever it was before and why is that?.............Probably a couple of things:

1/ Leica does not have enough trained service people who can work of their range of cameras analogue through digital.

2/ Leica, although they have to be aware of the frustration of the long turn-around times, refuse to adopt a saner repair booking system whereby a repair is assessed online, an appointment is made for a repair to be done and the customer is messaged to send the item in say a couple of weeks prior to the "bench time" and the repairs then should only take a few days or so and returned to the customer in good time............And they seemingly refuse to properly support any third party repairers.

3/ Leica's Quality Control on new ready to be shipped out cameras seems to need some serious reform judging by the number of people in this forum and others reporting mal-functioning cameras and lenses right out of the store / box. I've been in that category more than once ever since Leica started with it's digital line of M's........Pretty much every camera save my M10-M, ( fingers crossed ), has needed after-sales attention.

3/ Leica just doesn't really give a damn because they know that their hard core of enthusiasts will moan about it all but come back for more when their next Leica camera develops a wobble. I doubt if any change will happen in this life.

4/ Fill in the blank, I am sure there's more..................

There is a legal 45 day obligation for warranty repair in EU, you need not wait a day longer.

Yes, there is more:
4/ Leica refuses to sell parts to independent repairmen.

[Smudgerer]

7 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

There is a legal 45 day obligation for warranty repair in EU, you need not wait a day longer.

Yes, there is more:
4/ Leica refuses to sell parts to independent repairmen.

Thanks Al, I didn't know about that 45 day rule, blown by that already, and some. Good job I've got other M back-up, like you do I think.

4/?......Yes I heard that was the case from my Leica contact. How short-sighted a policy on Leica's part that is. I think many of us would be far far happier with our Leica "stuff" if there were more independent Leica supported repair options even given the less than stellar record at the moment with newly delivered cameras and lenses that are still within the 1-2 year warranty time. Service on warrantied gear takes up a chuck of the warranty time with no acknowledgement, allowance or redress from Leica, that "clock" should stop when Leica accepts the repair under warranty but it doesn't and that's just wrong.

[Ko.Fe.]

It is simple, LCAG is not considering service as something profitable, nor LCAG cares how its gear users been affected. 

Doesn't seems to be a real problem. Most have two of the same anyway. One for use, one for service.

[William H]

The subject of this thread brings to mind the 2010 essay by Dante Stella entitled "That Leica CLA Culture" in which he brings up a few points that addresses questions explored on this thread.  It's interesting to me because I have participated in "that Leica CLA culture" myself.  My takeaway from reading the article is that if it ain't broke don't fix it.  Save room on the repair bench for the cameras which are in true need of service rather than "factor in the cost of CLA with the purchase of your used Leica."  Writing this and smiling at myself as I consider packaging up my M2 and 35mm Summicron F2.8 to have minor issues addressed.  Probably worth it but I will be a long and lonely wait before it returns.   

[Mute-on]

1 hour ago, William H said:

The subject of this thread brings to mind the 2010 essay by Dante Stella entitled "That Leica CLA Culture" in which he brings up a few points that addresses questions explored on this thread.  It's interesting to me because I have participated in "that Leica CLA culture" myself.  My takeaway from reading the article is that if it ain't broke don't fix it.  Save room on the repair bench for the cameras which are in true need of service rather than "factor in the cost of CLA with the purchase of your used Leica."  Writing this and smiling at myself as I consider packaging up my M2 and 35mm Summicron F2.8 to have minor issues addressed.  Probably worth it but I will be a long and lonely wait before it returns.   

I assume you aren’t about to send your M2 and 35 to Leica for service? So many far better options for time, quality and cost.

[William H]

44 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

I assume you aren’t about to send your M2 and 35 to Leica for service? So many far better options for time, quality and cost.

 

44 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

I assume you aren’t about to send your M2 and 35 to Leica for service? So many far better options for time, quality and cost.

 

[William H]

Correct assumption, thanks for asking for clarification.  It's going to Ms Krauter.

[Photon42]

3 hours ago, Mute-on said:

I assume you aren’t about to send your M2 and 35 to Leica for service? So many far better options for time, quality and cost.

Not everywhere

[Mute-on]

4 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Not everywhere

Actually, very nearly, yes, everywhere.

Leica Wetzlar is accessible to everywhere that new or used Leica is sold, via mail. Whether it is sent by an individual or a Leica dealer, the destination is the same.

Equally, almost every independent Leica service centre is also accessible via mail. Unless you live on Wetzlar’s doorstep it is no more effort to mail your camera to Japan than it is to Wetzlar.

If one has the option of using an independent service centre, such as for a film body, or non-warranty work, almost all destinations are available to any Leica owner, shipping and tax differences notwithstanding. I have had my Leicas repaired and serviced in Solms, Japan and here in Australia. The most frustrating experience was with Solms, and that was over 20 years ago. For a CLA,  I would rather send my Leica film bodies and lenses to Japan.
 

I just hope I never need to send my digital M to Wetzlar.  I’m afraid my patience doesn’t extend to that sort of experience  

 

Edited March 12, 2024 by Mute-on

[fotografr]

20 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Thanks Al, I didn't know about that 45 day rule, blown by that already, and some. Good job I've got other M back-up, like you do I think.

4/?......Yes I heard that was the case from my Leica contact. How short-sighted a policy on Leica's part that is. I think many of us would be far far happier with our Leica "stuff" if there were more independent Leica supported repair options even given the less than stellar record at the moment with newly delivered cameras and lenses that are still within the 1-2 year warranty time. Service on warrantied gear takes up a chuck of the warranty time with no acknowledgement, allowance or redress from Leica, that "clock" should stop when Leica accepts the repair under warranty but it doesn't and that's just wrong.

Leica not only refuse to sell parts for their digital cameras to independent repair facilities, they also refuse to train independent repair technicians. I had a conversation with Don Goldberg about this a couple of years ago. When he was learning how to repair film Leicas, he spent two years in Germany at the Leica facilities. After the M8 was released he asked Leica if he could get training for digital repair. They refused. 

He does make adjustments on the digital M cameras, such as vertical and horizontal rangefinder adjustments, but he isn't able to work on the electronics because Leica won't provide either the materials or training. With repair times being a serious problem, this seems unbelievably shortsighted and probably detrimental to the company in the long term. I have a M10-R and M10M that have functioned flawlessly, but I had desired to upgrade to the M11 and M11M. The only reason I haven't done so is that I don't want to take a chance on having to send one or the other in for a 7 to 12 month repair. This has also kept me from buying a Q3. 

If Don, who lives just a short drive from my house, had the ability to work on the Leica digitals, I wouldn't hesitate to make the purchases. 

Edited March 12, 2024 by fotografr

[Al Brown]

15 hours ago, fotografr said:

I had desired to upgrade to the M11 and M11M. The only reason I haven't done so is that I don't want to take a chance on having to send one or the other in for a 7 to 12 month repair. This has also kept me from buying a Q3. 

If you buy one from EU (as many Americans did), you will be protected with 45 days maximum legaly obliging warranty repair or else replacement for 2 years (extendable through Leica to 3 years). No fuss, no 7-12 months lead time.

Edited March 13, 2024 by Al Brown

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

If you buy one from EU (as many Americans did), you will be protected with 45 days maximum legaly obliging warranty repair or else replacement for 2 years (extendable through Leica to 3 years). No fuss, no 7-12 months lead time.

So effectively these warranty repairs are queue jumping? If you'd had an 'old' M6 in for a CLA just before the scratchy pressure plates of the 'new' M6 hit the service centre older cameras could be shuffled to the back of the queue. Is this what's causing the long repair times?

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[Mikep996]

I have never understood the concept of a CLA for a properly operating camera but I realize that I must be in a rather small minority with that line of thinking!    My 2nd oldest camera, my 1984 M6, still works perfectly and the last time it saw any "service" was whenever it was checked by the Leica guy/gal that put it in its box for shipping out in '84.   Same is true of my oldest camera - my Nikon FM2.

 The only camera I have ever sent out for service was a Leica M2 that was locked up.  I got it at a garage sale for 25 bucks and Sherry K repaired and CLA'd it.  It's the only item I've ever purchased that I made a substantial profit on when selling!

 

[TomB_tx]

I stopped using Leica service in the 1970s-80s when they (Leitz N.J.) messed up my Leicaflex SL during their service. Just use USA private techs since.

My 1985 M6 did need service in 2010 due to light leak and non-functioning meter. (Shouldn't have left batteries in it...) My 1968 M4 also developed a light leak and had a full service with a different tech. (Upon return the RF vertical was off, and when the tech reported it "met factory spec" sent it to DAG who set it right,)

I evaluate operation: smooth function, odd noises of dry bearings, test shots at 1/1000 for even exposure, etc. and light leaks. I haven't really had issues with focus calibration (except after mis-adjustment after CLA). While I've had time and interest I've been running test rolls of B&W through my M2, 2-M3, M4, M5, M6 & Zeiss Ikon ZM (bought instead of M7). All tested fine, I also have several R series, and R4,6,7 tend to develop contact problems with the mode switches, etc. But exercising them seems to clean that up. They often need new seal around the window on the back. M models are definitively more reliable long term.

Meanwhile my early 1960s Pentax H1a just keeps on working.