Leica SL3 AF

[Mikko Kankainen]

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If you ask me yes and no. With afc it stills gives red box and focus hunts. But it is clearly using something better than SL2 was. It’s not Canon grab and lock and stick. 

Yesterday I tried it (afc) again in newborn shoot but did not like it. Mainly because dropped evf resolution/unclear viewfinder. 
 

You can use eye af with afs or afc. 

[SrMi]

I do not mind the drop in resolution with AF-C, especially when used with BBF.

[Mikko Kankainen]

Yes it’s true, I quess it’s only issue in studio environment. 
And someone dont even mind it. 

[petereprice]

1 hour ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Difference was clear but it was because of lens. With Leica lens it felt the same, we just tried to find out if lens was the reason for SL3 bad performance and it was. We did not swap lenses because it's important to keep same combo so one can copy/paste color settings. There was a difference regarding WB between lenses.

But there is no discussion about the fact that SL2s with Leica lens was way better to focus than SL3 with this Sigma zoom. 

 

With these AF misses you are experiencing are you shooting in single shot or burst rate and when in burst rate what burst rate are you shooting at?

In my experience I completely switched over to AF-C when transitioning over to the SL3 and have way better af accuracy than I did with my SL2-S.  It’s true I couldn’t use afc with the SL2-S but it’s very good especially with newer lenses on my SL3.  I’m using Panasonic SL primes and the Leica SL ASPH primes and they are performing very well with better accuracy than I expected and I’m often shooting moving subjects sometimes multiples.  So I’m surprised to hear you are having such bad luck.  I’ve had quite the opposite to the point where I sold my Sony kit entirely as I found the SL3 good enough for my needs in event, portrait, documentary and street photography.

[SrMi]

10 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Results from two cameras, exactly same conditions, different lens. About 10 000 images totally. Eye detect, af-s. Studio settings, normal lightning but quite dim.

SL3+Sigma 28-70
about 50 misses

SL2s+Leica 24-70
2 misses

In my simple test, the Sigma 28-70 did not work as well with SL3 as the Leica 24-70. Sigma vibrates and hunts in AF-C, while Leica's lens is rock solid. Sigma behaves similarly when choosing the APS-C format on SL3. It feels as if PDAF is disabled.

[Mikko Kankainen]

AF-S, wich is typical for studio lights. 5 poses and 2-3 pictures with one pose. About that. And yes AFC is way better than it was with SL2 I agree. There is just something for me that it feels weird. Maybe it's resolution drop or general feeling that focus is not as sticky as I would like it to be. But maybe it's just me and what I'm used to. However AF is totally fine for my work, I have a Canon when I need something else.

[Mikko Kankainen]

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1 minute ago, SrMi said:

In my simple test, the Sigma 28-70 did not work as well with SL3 as the Leica 24-70. Sigma vibrates and hunts in AF-C, while Leica's lens is rock solid. Sigma behaves similarly when choosing the APS-C format on SL3. It feels as if PDAF is disabled.

Yes just the same as we noticed. Huge difference with these two lenses. I dont remember from earlier that I have seen such a difference with same camera and different lens. Yes in speed but this that one lens hunts and other locks.

[jaapv]

Interesting. Mine doesn’t on the S5Ii. A good observation to go with the native Leica lens on a Leica body. It seems Leica implemented the AF differently from Panasonic. 

[Mikko Kankainen]

You need dim environment to see the difference. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Interesting. Mine doesn’t on the S5Ii. A good observation to go witje the native Leica lens on a Leica body. It seems Leica implemented the AF differently from Panasonic. 

There are a few subtle differences between the brands. Panasonic use a crosshairs for the eyes. Leica use a box. Also the S5II AF feels a bit more *mature*, if that makes sense. It’s obvious that the SL3 AF needs some firmware love. The SL3 firmware is solid but still feels like a beta release.

I’s also expect some firmware releases for the L mount manufacturers as the new bodies are released this year. Almost every Leica lens got an upgrade for the SL3. I expect others to do the same as they transition to PDAF bodies.

Gordon

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

You need dim environment to see the difference. 

My night shots were of a static nature and AFS. 

[Chun Chang]

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

In my simple test, the Sigma 28-70 did not work as well with SL3 as the Leica 24-70. Sigma vibrates and hunts in AF-C, while Leica's lens is rock solid. Sigma behaves similarly when choosing the APS-C format on SL3. It feels as if PDAF is disabled.

This has long been the case with Sigma lenses.  AF is inconsistent and stumbles.  Panasonic lenses do not do this.  Leica lenses do not do this.  Even the Leica branded Sigma lenses do not behave like this. 

[ALScott]

19 hours ago, petereprice said:

 It’s true I couldn’t use afc with the SL2-S but it’s very good especially with newer lenses on my SL3. 

Petereprice what exactly did you mean by "newer lenses on my SL3" if you don't mind?  New vs older SL lenses like 2018 24-90 SL vs 2023 of the same? Or, new as in new panasonic and sigma models etc, etc.

[petereprice]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:43 AM, ALScott said:

Petereprice what exactly did you mean by "newer lenses on my SL3" if you don't mind?  New vs older SL lenses like 2018 24-90 SL vs 2023 of the same? Or, new as in new panasonic and sigma models etc, etc.

New meaning - the new Leica SL ASPH (rebranded Panasonic) lenses, as well as Panasonic S primes, and newer Sigma like the Contemporary I series as well as newer Art series lenses like the 50mm f1.2 DG DN 

[petereprice]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:22 AM, Chun Chang said:

This has long been the case with Sigma lenses.  AF is inconsistent and stumbles.  Panasonic lenses do not do this.  Leica lenses do not do this.  Even the Leica branded Sigma lenses do not behave like this. 

Interestingly, my Sigma 28-70mm DG DN Contemporary is one of my most consistently accurate AF lenses.  But I generally agree that the Sigma's perform the least consistently, next to maybe the SL APO which I also found to be slow and inconsistent.

[geronimosan]

2 hours ago, petereprice said:

New meaning - the new Leica SL ASPH (rebranded Panasonic) lenses, as well as Panasonic S primes, and newer Sigma like the Contemporary I series as well as newer Art series lenses like the 50mm f1.2 DG DN 

Can you define for us "rebranded Panasonic lenses" both in definition and with specific lenses from the Leica and Panasonic sides?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

He means the Summicron 35 and 50 SL (non APO). They are siblings although I'll note they're made in different factories on different continents. Also the SIgma 100-400, 14-24 and 24-70 have Leica clones, made in the same factory. The 100-400's have different build quiality and weather sealing the other two are basically the same.

It's likely that some of the other L mount brands will need to offer firmware upgrades for some of their lenses for the SL3. Every Leica lens I own (most of them) went into an automatic upgrade when attached to the SL3 for the first time. Pannys and Sigmas don't do this obviously. Panasonic lenses would have been ready for PDAF on the S5II (X). So it's reasonable some Sigmas will need firmware at some stage.

I can say the three *i* DGDN lenses I have, have no issues. Nor my Panasonic 50 and 100mm lenses. My 100-400's (Leica and Sigma "clones") appear to be the same. I haven't tested my 14-24 clones with AFC. The only one that feels slightly behind is the 150-600 I have.

Also note that the SL3 firmware is basically in beta as well. I think you can expect some reasonably significant upgrades in time. I have yet to try the new S5II upgrade but I guess that's what the SL3 will have as well.

Anyone expecting A7R5 performance might need to get used to disappointment.

Gordon

[Simone_DF]

13 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Also note that the SL3 firmware is basically in beta as well. I think you can expect some reasonably significant upgrades in time. I have yet to try the new S5II upgrade but I guess that's what the SL3 will have as well.

What we have learned from the SL2 is that it takes Leica between 6 months and 1 year to integrate Panasonic's changes. When the S5 was launched with the improved AF capabilities, we had to wait about 9 months to get the same improvements, with the launch of the SL2-S and the big firmware update for the SL2. I would expect the same pattern for the SL3.

Edited April 29, 2024 by Simone_DF

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

When the S5 was launched with the improved AF capabilities, we had to wait about 9 months to get the same improvements, with the launch of the SL2-S and the big firmware update for the SL2.

The SL2 and S5 used different technical architectures, so Leica probably had to port or re-write all of the code. It should be easier to adapt S5ii code to the SL3, but these things are always a matter of priorities. I assume that there are a number of SL3 bugs and quirks to be remedied ahead of this.

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Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

57 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The SL2 and S5 used different technical architectures, so Leica probably had to port or re-write all of the code. It should be easier to adapt S5ii code to the SL3, but these things are always a matter of priorities. I assume that there are a number of SL3 bugs and quirks to be remedied ahead of this.

I highly doubt Leica had to rewrite all of the code since the AF technology was licensed from Panasonic. However, Leica definitely had to adapt it to the SL to account for hardware differences that may have an impact on AF and other software related performance, energy consumption, heat dissipation, etc.