Travel Lens - Stitching vs wide angle?

[Dr. G]

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So I've been struggling with finding a good wide angle focal length for my SL system.  My primary use would be occasional architecture photography but it would be more for capturing historic sites with people in the foreground... travel environemental portraits.  Instead of geting a dedicated lens in the 21-28mm range, couldn't I just use my 35mm or 50mm, set up my initial composition for my subject, lock focus, take additional shots to capture more of the background and then stich them together to get an image that would emulate something taken with a wider lens?

I have a 10mm Laowa 2.8 on order.  That would be great for interiors, ceilings, interesting geometrical interpretations of speces, but not for photos like I'm describing.  

Edited March 8, 2024 by Dr. G

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[Olaf_ZG]

I can’t answer regarding the stitching part. My problem is, that, after fe one week, when culling, I can’t remember which images I wanted to stitch, and as standalone’s they look so-so, and get deleted.

but that’s me.

[Dr. G]

I really would love to stay with an all APO Summicron-SL kit, but I'm still not sure 28mm will be wide enough for traveling, say, in Europe and trying to get a subject in the frame with enough scenery in the background.  The 21 may be too wide for the types of images I'm looking to make without distorting or keystoning my subject.

[dpitt]

6 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I really would love to stay with an all APO Summicron-SL kit, but I'm still not sure 28mm will be wide enough for traveling, say, in Europe and trying to get a subject in the frame with enough scenery in the background.  The 21 may be too wide for the types of images I'm looking to make without distorting or keystoning my subject.

If you already have a 28mm, I think it will be wide enough most of the time. Stitching 2 or 3 portrait 28mm shots together occasionally would work for me. I rarely use portrait shots outdoors, so shooting in portrait mode not only helps with the composition, it helps remind me which shots I intended for stitching.

When I am traveling I often take 35 mm or even 40 mm as my widest (or single) lens and even then I get by with a few occasional stitches. The only issue may be that shooting in crowded situations with people moving around, you have to take care that you have enough shots to choose from, so that you do not have to photoshop much at the borderlines of the shots.

Of course YMMV

Edited March 9, 2024 by dpitt

[Virob]

You could try stitching with a 35mm in your local town, see if it works for you before going travelling. I’ll stitch scenics, preferably with a tripod, but I don’t think I would enjoy doing it for what you propose with people.

I could travel in Europe with just a Q2 and be totally happy, but traveling with a SL2 I would expect more. 
You can use perspective control on the SL2 with the 21 if you are concerned about perspective distortion. I’d get the 21 apo myself, but there are a number of good options for 20- 24 from sigma, voigtlander etc that are a lot smaller and less expensive if this not a main focal length for you. 

i will be very interested to hear your thoughts on the Laowa 10/2.8. Would love to try something crazy wide like that.

 

[LeicaR10]

Dr G,   Obviously you can stitch the images together.  I get the best results using a 50mm lens (Sometimes a 35) with my M10-R, use a tripod and overlap by 20% in the scene.  With the SL2, I use a SL 50, manual focus and settings, sometimes a tripod with timer, 20% overlap. This is all for landscapes.  If you want to see some excellent stitched images, check out the Leica S Image thread and look for the member ZNL.  He does a lot of stitching using a S-70 (50), both horizontal and vertical framing.  r/ Mark

[Babylonia]

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Stitching and people within the photo scene, is looking for trouble for overlapping image areas.
Good image stitching, you need a tripod and a special panorama head, that the camera is turning around the optical nodal point.
To ensure no parallax of foreground details are mixed up / not lined up.

Personally I should use a wide angle zoom for travelling (e.g. 16-28mm F2.8 DG DN - or Lumix 16-35mm/F4.0 as for the low weight).

If you need more detail, use High Resolution mode.

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, Dr. G said:

The 21 may be too wide for the types of images I'm looking to make without distorting or keystoning my subject.

Keystoning isn't a property of the lens, it's a consequence of how much you tilt the camera. A 15mm looks as straight as a 50mm, if you use a bubble level. You might want to consider a shift lens for architecture, so you can keep the camera level while framing a little higher. Laowa has several shift lenses in L mount, and I see that B&H offers a AstrHori 18mm/8 shift for a ridiculously low price (although it vignettes at maximum shift).

Similarly, "wide angle distortion" is a property of how far you are from the subject. You'll get the same effect whether you shoot a single frame or stitch a dozen frames.

I don't know what your budget and carrying capacity are like, but you've got several lens options. For a smaller carry, have a look at Panasonic's wider 1.8 lenses (18 and 24mm), and especially Sigma's 17/4.0 and 24/3.5. Sigma and Panasonic have several wide zoom options. Two especially interesting ones are Panasonic's 20-60, which is very inexpensive and is surprisingly good, and their 16-35/4.0 which is one of their best lenses, but still small.

[Dr. G]

14 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Keystoning isn't a property of the lens, it's a consequence of how much you tilt the camera. A 15mm looks as straight as a 50mm, if you use a bubble level. You might want to consider a shift lens for architecture, so you can keep the camera level while framing a little higher. Laowa has several shift lenses in L mount, and I see that B&H offers a AstrHori 18mm/8 shift for a ridiculously low price (although it vignettes at maximum shift).

Similarly, "wide angle distortion" is a property of how far you are from the subject. You'll get the same effect whether you shoot a single frame or stitch a dozen frames.

I don't know what your budget and carrying capacity are like, but you've got several lens options. For a smaller carry, have a look at Panasonic's wider 1.8 lenses (18 and 24mm), and especially Sigma's 17/4.0 and 24/3.5. Sigma and Panasonic have several wide zoom options. Two especially interesting ones are Panasonic's 20-60, which is very inexpensive and is surprisingly good, and their 16-35/4.0 which is one of their best lenses, but still small.

I totally understand that.  But wider lenses still stretch the images laterally a bit when moving towards the edges of the frame, even if you’re straight on.  I have the CV15 and the edges do stretch.  Perhaps not as much as a 20 or 21mm, so using the central part of the frame for people is still preferred.  Even if I were to use perspective control my subjects would be upright but still stretched a bit if not closer to the middle of the frame.  I was just wondering if I used a 50mm for my initial image and then shot multiple images around my subject and recomposed by cropping my stitched image to reposition my subject within the frame, would it make a difference.  

Edited March 9, 2024 by Dr. G

[BernardC]

15 minutes ago, Dr. G said:

But wider lenses still stretch the images laterally a bit when moving towards the edges of the frame, even if you’re straight on.  I have the CV15 and the edges do stretch.

It's not a function of the lens, it's a function of the distance to the subject. The only way around that is to move the camera between shots. For instance, say you have a large group of people, posed along a wall. If you shoot them with a wide, the people at the edges will be much smaller and distorted. However, if you walk parallel to the wall, shooting a frame every few meters, everybody will be the same distance from the camera, and you can stitch the frames together to provide a "flat panorama," which is itself strange because the perspective has no vanishing point.

Ultra-wide photography is surprisingly complex. There are specialized solutions that look normal when used one way, and extremely distorted when you change the framing (Cirkut, Widelux). Fisheyes can look "straight" if the horizon crosses the geometric center of the image.

 

You should definitely experiment with stitching a series of 35mm or 50mm images, to see if you get what you envisioned. I would love to see a comparison between a 15mm and a stitch done with a regular wide.

[Dr. G]

10 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It's not a function of the lens, it's a function of the distance to the subject.

This is why I'm also still considering either the Sigma 20mm ART or the Leica 21mm APO.  If I move further back from my subject I can get a 24-28mm framing on the SL3 without sacrificing too much resolution, and still take advantage of the full 20/21mm field of view and the creative aspects of using the properties of the lens at a full wide angle as necessary.  If I use perspective control for architecture I can probably end up with the same FOV as a 24-28mm with the perspective corrected.  The Sigma 20mm is a great performer and compared to the price of the 21 APO seems like a relative bargain.  Then again, the 21 APO Will match the look of my 35, 50 and 75.  

 

If the weather clears up around here I'll head out and try the stitching options with my 35 or 50.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:42 AM, Olaf_ZG said:

I can’t answer regarding the stitching part. My problem is, that, after fe one week, when culling, I can’t remember which images I wanted to stitch, and as standalone’s they look so-so, and get deleted.

but that’s me.

Photograph your hand, then the stitch, then your hand.

This is the way....

Gordon

[Olaf_ZG]

44 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Photograph your hand, then the stitch, then your hand.

This is the way....

Gordon

Simple and effective yet it never came to my mind. Thanks.

[jrp]

if you are into stitching, then the iPhone camera app is very good at it, for digital resolutions.

[jaapv]

On 3/8/2024 at 6:26 PM, Dr. G said:

So I've been struggling with finding a good wide angle focal length for my SL system.  My primary use would be occasional architecture photography but it would be more for capturing historic sites with people in the foreground... travel environemental portraits.  Instead of geting a dedicated lens in the 21-28mm range, couldn't I just use my 35mm or 50mm, set up my initial composition for my subject, lock focus, take additional shots to capture more of the background and then stich them together to get an image that would emulate something taken with a wider lens?

I have a 10mm Laowa 2.8 on order.  That would be great for interiors, ceilings, interesting geometrical interpretations of speces, but not for photos like I'm describing.  

The Voigtländers 10 and 12 work well on the SL cameras. I have the 12 on the 601 and no complaints. The 15 mm Super Wide Heliar has been optimized for FF cameras.

[robb]

I use the photo of a hand to start and finish a stitched set.

i also recommend the canon tilt shift 17 and 24 lenses with the sigma adapter for architecture and city life in tighter spaces.  I don’t really do keystoning verticals after so many years shooting arch.

Robb

[Ghiry6591]

I am sure that the choice is directly linked to the photos that everyone intends to take. I really love photos of urban architecture and archaeological architecture, but I also really like shooting people in the environment in which they live. Currently on the road I use a Leica Q3 and an SL2-S with an Elmarit-R 19/2.8 V II. But it's not enough for me anymore. I'm trying a Leica Super Vario Elmar 16-35, which would guarantee me, in addition to the numerous covered focal lengths, also the speed of the autofocus. I've been going to the gym for months to train for overall weight bearing! As you can see, the solutions can be different, and all valid in their own way, you just have to find the one that makes you take better photos or that you like the most, but the real truth is that simple solutions are almost always the best.

[Dr. G]

Can a polarizer be used when taking images for stitching, or will it create issues with exposure consistency?

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[Babylonia]

Stitching you have to use fixed settings for exposure (shutter speed - aperture - ISO),  with or without a polarizer.
Only by the very wide "total" angle of view, using a polariser can have a big tonal difference as e.g. within the sky.
Showing as a sort of gradient / banding.  I should not recommend to use a polarizer at all for such conditions.

e.g. Check photo at the following article, below as from the text:  "Té sterk effect"  (scrolling down more than half way).
Picture with green grass landscape, and a dead tree, plus blue sky.
https://www.natuurfotografie.nl/tutorial-hoe-werkt-een-polarisatiefilter/

Edited May 2, 2024 by Babylonia

[Dr. G]

1 hour ago, Babylonia said:

Stitching you have to use fixed settings for exposure (shutter speed - aperture - ISO),  with or without a polarizer.
Only by the very wide "total" angle of view, using a polariser can have a big tonal difference as e.g. within the sky.
Showing as a sort of gradient / banding.  I should not recommend to use a polarizer at all for such conditions.

e.g. Check photo at the following article, below as from the text:  "Té sterk effect"  (scrolling down more than half way).
Picture with green grass landscape, and a dead tree, plus blue sky.
https://www.natuurfotografie.nl/tutorial-hoe-werkt-een-polarisatiefilter/

Thanks, I assumed that because I'm pivoting the camera on its axis and changing the angle to the sun this could lead to one side of the sky being dark; similar to using a CPL on a wide angle lens.