Leica SL3: 60 MP & Phase Detection AF

[Photoworks]

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On 5/1/2024 at 10:00 AM, sebas_ said:

I came just across a YouTube video comparing S5II and SL3 video's AF features: 

 

everyone wants better AF, and so do I.

SL3 in miles better AFc in the video than SL2-s. It is actually very usable. This review does not reflect my experience of poor AF. It is all about choosing the correct AF modes and speeds, similar to the Panasonic. In the beginning, fresh users "YouTubers" were complaining about the poor performance of AF in some modes, until Panasonic had to explain to them what the camera is tuned to and how to benefit from it.

FW v3 brings improvements to Panasonic AF and at Leica, we probably see it in 1 year. keep in mind only has a setup to improve firmware two times a year and they like to include new features, with limited time they may push bugs to the next circle. 
I would imagine Multishot is the main new option soon. 
 

It is surprising how long everything takes, especially in a small corporate environment.

 

PS AFc in video is very much Lens dependent, I had the best experience with the Panasonic S lenses in video.

 

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:50 AM, Simone_DF said:

Unfortunately it has become the norm to release half-baked products with a flaky software base. Ship now, update later is the new mantra. That and cuts in QA processes have been the new standard for products released in the last 10 years, not just limited to cameras. It saves companies a lot of cash. That is, until shit happens, or you have cameras that freeze like the M11 at launch, or a complete disaster like the Humane Pin.

My rule of thumb for the past few years has been to ignore any new product until at least 1 year after launch.     

Yep. Absolutely. And these companies don't seem to get that the initial impression is the one that sticks. There are a hundred YouTube reviews of the SL3 already and they won't go away. So *if/when* Leica finally do make any updates potential customers will still be looking at those reviews.

I have no idea how anyone at Leica thinks that's a good idea?

Gordon

[Markey]

If you are going to provide AF in your cameras it ,at the very least, has to compare favourably with what is already on the market (better ideally) otherwise what is the point.

If the shot is out of focus everything else becomes irrelevant .

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, Markey said:

If you are going to provide AF in your cameras it ,at the very least, has to compare favourably with what is already on the market (better ideally) otherwise what is the point.

If the shot is out of focus everything else becomes irrelevant .

 

I'm not having any issues with the focus accuracy of the SL3 for normal shooting.

And no, I don't agree with your first premise. Otherwise, every camera except the A7R5 would be considered poor, which isn't the case.

Gordon

[Markey]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I'm not having any issues with the focus accuracy of the SL3 for normal shooting.

And no, I don't agree with your first premise. Otherwise, every camera except the A7R5 would be considered poor, which isn't the case.

Gordon

Pleased to hear it.

Compare favourably was the phrase I used which I thought was broad enough.

I wasn`t trying to suggest that it should be the best but my impression .... and its only that ...was that it fell some way short of the "general" level of competence .

More than happy to be proved wrong .

Michael

[Smogg]

Has anyone compared the performance of AF-C vs AF-S with face detection in 4 fps burst mode? After all, in any case, before each frame, the camera focuses on the person’s face, even if he/she is moving. Will there be a difference in the number of successful shots?

[Smogg]

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P.S. I understand when the camera has different focus priority settings (release or focus) in AF-S and AF-C modes. But, for example, in Q3 I did not find such settings. Moreover, the camera behaves exactly the same in both modes (AF-S and AF-C), when I move focus from a close object to a distant one without interrupting continuous shooting: the camera continues to shoot even if the object is clearly out of focus and refocuses with some delay. How does the SL3 behave?

Please explain to me the practical difference between AF-S and AF-C in relation to SL3 or Q3

Edited May 4, 2024 by Smogg

[sillbeers15]

Every camera and lens is just a tool. Use the right tool for the required application  would be the appropriate way to go. Not one camera is perfect for all applications. I love the color and rendering of Leica lenses and the camera design plus UI of the SL cameras. For me the eye detect AF from the contrast detect AF offered by my SL2 earlier was good enough for me.  Unfortunately with my fascination on Bird & Wildlife Photography have grown, I have to move on beyond Leica SL3 and current line of SL lenses as the entire system just cannot meet my expectations.
Having said that, I do think that the Leica SL series is in danger of letting history repeat itself as another R series failure if it cannot offer a distinct advantage appreciated by users like the M series does.
The competition is ever dynamic in the mirrorless segment ever since the days starting from Sony Alfa & Leica M8. Today the medium format fujis are making good improvements on their medium format to match AF capabilities of the full frame cameras and the overall mirrorless full frame cameras AF capabilities are also making very significant progress in various subject recognition AF that is faster than the Panasonic & Leica AF capability. Can ‘playing catch up’ from SRs &SL3 be sufficient even though the SL3 does offer progress from SL2? Can SL series cameras’ strength continue to outshine its weakness? Only the users and buyers can decide and time will tell.

Edited May 6, 2024 by sillbeers15

[Photoworks]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Only the users and buyers can decide and time will tell.

you can say that about any brand!

I left canon, nikon, sony behind.
I am not a fanboy, I just buy what makes sense at this time.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

15 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Every camera and lens is just a tool. Use the right tool for the required application  would be the appropriate way to go. Not one camera is perfect for all applications. I love the color and rendering of Leica lenses and the camera design plus UI of the SL cameras. For me the eye detect AF from the contrast detect AF offered by my SL2 earlier was good enough for me.  Unfortunately with my fascination on Bird & Wildlife Photography have grown, I have to move on beyond Leica SL3 and current line of SL lenses as the entire system just cannot meet my expectations.
Having said that, I do think that the Leica SL series is in danger of letting history repeat itself as another R series failure if it cannot offer a distinct advantage appreciated by users like the M series does.
The competition is ever dynamic in the mirrorless segment ever since the days starting from Sony Alfa & Leica M8. Today the medium format fujis are making good improvements on their medium format to match AF capabilities of the full frame cameras and the overall mirrorless full frame cameras AF capabilities are also making very significant progress in various subject recognition AF that is faster than the Panasonic & Leica AF capability. Can ‘playing catch up’ from SRs &SL3 be sufficient even though the SL3 does offer progress from SL2? Can SL series cameras’ strength continue to outshine its weakness? Only the users and buyers can decide and time will tell.

Well, that depends on whether potential customers value what a camera offers over what it doesn't. An easy example would be if a buyer has no interest in shooting video with their camera then having the best codecs and bit rates doesn't matter, does it? Another customer only sends their photos to social media so an increase in resolution or noise performance has little interest to them.

Then it matters how many cameras the manufacturer wants to sell or their market share. And where they see themselves in the market place.

The SL is chasing the high resolution high IQ segment. The one formally reserved for medium format film. The one being chased by Hasselblad and Fujifilm. Leica's SL advantage is that they have longer and wider lenses in a slightly smaller package. But basically, the SL3 is there to strap APO Summicrons to. Leica USA all but said this in their release video. While I bemoan the release of the camera with *beta firmware* and am sure that had they added high res shot from the top, they'd be in a better position, it's pretty obvious what they're after. Just look at Leicas lens offerings. Not a sports camera brand. Leica's closest competitor to the SL3 is the X2D.

Sony and Nikon are chasing the sports and BiF market hard. With Sony taking a side road into miniaturisation. Just look at the lenses they've announced in the last year. Nikon have basically ignored the Z7 and Z6 lines. What we got was the very cool Zf but no port to the Z6III. And then there's the A7CR. But basically the news was the Z8, A9II and the lenses. It's an Olympic year, so it makes sense. I have no idea why any action photographer would be looking outside these two brands.

Canon seems to be throwing sh*t at a wall to see what sticks. It may make sense when the R1 and R5II are released but the emphasis seems to be on the lower and mid market, based on the glass they've released, like the 200-800. There is the new 24-105 and 100-300 but there's no camera for them yet. Lots of crappy APSC bodies, deliberately hobbled to push you up the food chain or for those who leave the camera on P.

Panasonic have hunkered down into the hybrid space. Look at the focus breathing or lack of on their lenses to be sure. OM Sytems are in a bit of trouble. Sigma are killing it and are too busy making the next lens Canon won't allow to worry about cameras, really. Although a new FP style weirdo could emerge from nowhere.

Fuji just avoided getting involved at all. APSC and miniMF. Both markets they dominate. But they'd rather sell Instax cameras. Hasselblad are Hasselblad.

Pentax has specialised themselves into oblivion. Ricoh just want to make photocopiers.

I know that some wanted Leica to bring out an A1 or A9III competitor. I'm not sure Leica is interested in that market or if they see themselves competing directly. They emphasise build, UI and IQ in their presentations. They don't make the lenses action photographers would want. But if you shoot weddings, travel, studio, landscapes (remember the SL3 will expose up to 30 minutes) or street plus some B roll, then the SL3 makes a lot of sense. Leica's insistence on metal build makes the camera a bit bigger than an A7R5 but really all it is, is an AF/EVF camera for M shooters who want some AF goodness in their lives.

Leica insist they're happy with how the SL's sell. We'll just have to wait to see if that's more than marketing speak.

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Well, that depends on whether potential customers value what a camera offers over what it doesn't. An easy example would be if a buyer has no interest in shooting video with their camera then having the best codecs and bit rates doesn't matter, does it? Another customer only sends their photos to social media so an increase in resolution or noise performance has little interest to them.

Then it matters how many cameras the manufacturer wants to sell or their market share. And where they see themselves in the market place.

The SL is chasing the high resolution high IQ segment. The one formally reserved for medium format film. The one being chased by Hasselblad and Fujifilm. Leica's SL advantage is that they have longer and wider lenses in a slightly smaller package. But basically, the SL3 is there to strap APO Summicrons to. Leica USA all but said this in their release video. While I bemoan the release of the camera with *beta firmware* and am sure that had they added high res shot from the top, they'd be in a better position, it's pretty obvious what they're after. Just look at Leicas lens offerings. Not a sports camera brand. Leica's closest competitor to the SL3 is the X2D.

Sony and Nikon are chasing the sports and BiF market hard. With Sony taking a side road into miniaturisation. Just look at the lenses they've announced in the last year. Nikon have basically ignored the Z7 and Z6 lines. What we got was the very cool Zf but no port to the Z6III. And then there's the A7CR. But basically the news was the Z8, A9II and the lenses. It's an Olympic year, so it makes sense. I have no idea why any action photographer would be looking outside these two brands.

Canon seems to be throwing sh*t at a wall to see what sticks. It may make sense when the R1 and R5II are released but the emphasis seems to be on the lower and mid market, based on the glass they've released, like the 200-800. There is the new 24-105 and 100-300 but there's no camera for them yet. Lots of crappy APSC bodies, deliberately hobbled to push you up the food chain or for those who leave the camera on P.

Panasonic have hunkered down into the hybrid space. Look at the focus breathing or lack of on their lenses to be sure. OM Sytems are in a bit of trouble. Sigma are killing it and are too busy making the next lens Canon won't allow to worry about cameras, really. Although a new FP style weirdo could emerge from nowhere.

Fuji just avoided getting involved at all. APSC and miniMF. Both markets they dominate. But they'd rather sell Instax cameras. Hasselblad are Hasselblad.

Pentax has specialised themselves into oblivion. Ricoh just want to make photocopiers.

I know that some wanted Leica to bring out an A1 or A9III competitor. I'm not sure Leica is interested in that market or if they see themselves competing directly. They emphasise build, UI and IQ in their presentations. They don't make the lenses action photographers would want. But if you shoot weddings, travel, studio, landscapes (remember the SL3 will expose up to 30 minutes) or street plus some B roll, then the SL3 makes a lot of sense. Leica's insistence on metal build makes the camera a bit bigger than an A7R5 but really all it is, is an AF/EVF camera for M shooters who want some AF goodness in their lives.

Leica insist they're happy with how the SL's sell. We'll just have to wait to see if that's more than marketing speak.

Gordon

Since the day Smart Phone appeared to eventually wiped out the point & shoot digital camera sales and the arrival of Sony Alpha mirrorless eating into the traditional positive bottom line DSLR market segment tightly held by Nikon & Canon. The camera makers have since gone through endless market turmoil. It is no calm & status quo position for each camera maker to position & enjoy their market share. Therefore I see a step up in new product lines be it in lenses in more f1.2 primes to lighter & built in tele converter long focal length prime lenses also I see camera capability improvement especially in the higher resolution & subject recognition AF matter. Each maker actively attempting to take each others’ market share. The Nikon Zf is a good example of Nikon entering into the market share of Fuji APSC cameras which it anchored well. In return, Fuji’s attempt to improve its medium format AF capabilities to match the mediocre AF capable full frame signals its attempt to take away customers from high resolution full frame mirrorless market share. This is where I find Leica’s SL3 strategy of a slow progress in AF ( making it lag more over other makers over time) plus it’s lack of fast primes like that of M lenses as a shaky business model to be built upon. I am a consumer willing to pay for quality & fine goods. But wanting me to part my money on a high end goods priced on a average capability product just insults my intelligence. The anticipation & excitement I had in 2015 & 2019 over the launch of the SL & SL2 respectively had just been lost partly driven by the no international travel during the pandemic enhanced my interest over BIF photography. Eventually I decided picking up a Nikor 600mm F4 VRS TC with a Z9 body to match when I was fortunate to find an available piece 12 months after it’s launch instead of waiting further on a SL3. Now to further put my money on where my mouth is, I’ll be picking up a Nikor 180-600mm and a 85mm f1.2 coming week while I anticipate for the launch of a 35mm f1.2 lens next. These are all the lenses I wanted and the SL series of lenses Leica do not offer. No, not Sigma f1.2 L Mount that I’m after. Where are the next exciting SL lux lenses? Earlier instead, Leica’s attempt offering watches,..it absolutely turn me away from the brand. Therefore time has come for me to move out of my comfort zone, the SL series.

[Smogg]

But for me to decide to buy an SL3, what I need is not fast huge primes, but rather a compact, lightweight, high-quality series of Elmar or Elmarit lenses. I don't want to buy third party lenses after purchasing the SL3. Hasselblad did it instead of Leica with their new V series,

[Markey]

Fascinating contributions in this thread from Sillbeers 15 and FlashGoronPhotography.

I failed to realise that the market had become that specialised .

Thanks chaps .

Michael

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Since the day Smart Phone appeared to eventually wiped out the point & shoot digital camera sales and the arrival of Sony Alpha mirrorless eating into the traditional positive bottom line DSLR market segment tightly held by Nikon & Canon. The camera makers have since gone through endless market turmoil. It is no calm & status quo position for each camera maker to position & enjoy their market share. Therefore I see a step up in new product lines be it in lenses in more f1.2 primes to lighter & built in tele converter long focal length prime lenses also I see camera capability improvement especially in the higher resolution & subject recognition AF matter. Each maker actively attempting to take each others’ market share. The Nikon Zf is a good example of Nikon entering into the market share of Fuji APSC cameras which it anchored well. In return, Fuji’s attempt to improve its medium format AF capabilities to match the mediocre AF capable full frame signals its attempt to take away customers from high resolution full frame mirrorless market share. This is where I find Leica’s SL3 strategy of a slow progress in AF ( making it lag more over other makers over time) plus it’s lack of fast primes like that of M lenses as a shaky business model to be built upon. I am a consumer willing to pay for quality & fine goods. But wanting me to part my money on a high end goods priced on a average capability product just insults my intelligence. The anticipation & excitement I had in 2015 & 2019 over the launch of the SL & SL2 respectively had just been lost partly driven by the no international travel during the pandemic enhanced my interest over BIF photography. Eventually I decided picking up a Nikor 600mm F4 VRS TC with a Z9 body to match when I was fortunate to find an available piece 12 months after it’s launch instead of waiting further on a SL3. Now to further put my money on where my mouth is, I’ll be picking up a Nikor 180-600mm and a 85mm f1.2 coming week while I anticipate for the launch of a 35mm f1.2 lens next. These are all the lenses I wanted and the SL series of lenses Leica do not offer. No, not Sigma f1.2 L Mount that I’m after. Where are the next exciting SL lux lenses? Earlier instead, Leica’s attempt offering watches,..it absolutely turn me away from the brand. Therefore time has come for me to move out of my comfort zone, the SL series.

Sure. Agreed. I'd LOVE Leica to make an SL3 with the A1 sensor and release some epic glass. But since they didn't I bought an A1 and some fine glass. I'm more than happy to have both.

I will say, *I'm* not looking for a Swiss army knife camera, although the A1 gets close. My ideal cupboard is a set of knives each suited to a particular task. So the SL system works well for me as I'm in line with Leica's release notes. I have my A1 to scratch my speed needs and my Hasselblad's for my giant prints. My SL3's basically replaced my GFX100II. Great camera but I don't enjoy using it. Maybe if Hasselblad would make a couple more zooms for me. But I'd still want the SL3 for anything longer than 200mm.

For me the SL3 isn't a camera of *average capability*. For what I want it's the market leader. That's the highest IQ in high res small format. I have the Z7II, A7R5 and R5 to compare it with. In absolute IQ the SL3 wins because of the APO Summicrons. The other things I like are build quality and a smart UI. Again, Leica leads those categories. I don't like Sony's layout, buttons, joystick and menus and the lenses are great but not consistent. The R5 and R7 just annoy me. Especially the R7 which I despise. The Nikons don't have a colour palette I get on with and some plain weird menu design choices. For me Leica is the best in class. My priorities are just different to yours.

I also see the SL system as very much part of the L mount. I prefer the Leica build and UI over the equivalent Panasonic but I like Sigma lenses very much and a few very interesting Panny lenses as well (100mm macro anyone) for glass I want but know I'll use less often.

If I'm off to Africa, I'll just leave the SL3 at home and take an A1 and a GFX (animal portraits with the upcoming 500mm  ). I have no issue with that. I see no reason to lug my M's or SL's to India next year when the X2D is the right system for that trip and that's a Leica organised trip.... And I'm taking my SL3's to Iceland in August because I really wanted the extra reach after my last trip and the GFX/X2D stuff isn't giving me that. Maybe my A1 would have had a higher hit rate last week end while I was shooting with the SL3 and Sigma 500mm. But I loved the challenge and the few shots I got (I'm a terrible BiF photographer) have fabulous detail.

I do get that many would like to consolidate to a single system. That's not me though. But if it was it'd likely be the SL3 as that's my 90% system. It does 90% of what I could possibly want 90% of the time. I like my X2D more but that's the realty. It's not for everything and I'm prepared to fill the holes with other gear. Doesn't stop me liking my HB's or Leica's. Each to their own. Different is good and I get why you'd like more from the SL system.

Gordon

Edited May 7, 2024 by FlashGordonPhotography

[SrMi]

9 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

If I'm off to Africa, I'll just leave the SL3 at home and take an A1 and a GFX (animal portraits with the upcoming 500mm  ). I have no issue with that. I see no reason to lug my M's or SL's to India next year when the X2D is the right system for that trip and that's a Leica organised trip.

Can you elaborate on why you picked X2D for India instead of M11 or SL3? My favorite systems are M11, SL3, and X2D, but I carry only one on a trip. With the new XCD25, what three lenses will you take with your X2D instead of SL3 with 24-90?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Can you elaborate on why you picked X2D for India instead of M11 or SL3? My favorite systems are M11, SL3, and X2D, but I carry only one on a trip. With the new XCD25, what three lenses will you take with your X2D instead of SL3 with 24-90?

Sure. Apologies to others for the OT post.

Firstly, I should have been a bit more specific. I'm going to Varanasi. Not all of India. On another trip to a different part I might choose something else. I was there for Dev Deepavali in November and I'm going back for Holi (yes I know this isn't the home of Holi) in 2025. I took 2 x X2D bodies and 6 lenses but mostly settled on three. The 28, 55 and 90mm (older one). I also had the 21, 135 and zoom but didn't use them. 

Mostly I had a 55 and 90 mounted and the 28 in a pocket. I was really happy with the photos and the cameras for this trip. Now I have the 90V and there's face detect I think it'll be even better. I was generally up close and personal so I didn't need longer than the 90mm. I really liked the clutch on the 55V. Now I'll have it on more lenses. I love the tiny 28mm and the 55 isn't much bigger. The IBIS is game changing for me. SO much better than any small format system except Olympus. All in all, it was just an incredibly enjoyable experience and I have zero regrets or wishes to change gear out.

This time I'll take a bit more because of the Holi festival days. It'll be the 25 (21 if the 25 doesn't arrive), 28, 55, 90V, 135 and the zoom. I know the zoom will be used on the Holi days (bagged) as I can't change lenses. Likely I'll have the 135 on the other body to get some reach. The other days will be the 25(28), 55 and 90 as I had last time.

The other option, as you wisely mentioned is the SL3. And I have 8 months to change my mind, several times. I could take the 24-90 for the festival days and a set of primes for everything else. Just like the X2D. I do like the slightly wider standard 55V for this type of shooting. Right now, I prefer that over either the 50 or 35 on the SL3. I didn't know that this would become my new favourite focal length before I got the lens but it is now after 35 years as a 50mm guy. I also like the X2D aspect ratio when shooting people. OTOH the SL3 is properly weather sealed and Holi is messy. My current APO lenses for the SL3 are the 21, 28, 50 and 90. The equivalent X2D 28, 55,90 set are a 22, 45, 71. I kind of think that slightly wider set is a better spread for being in and close. I'm not a 35mm focal length person so buying a 35 and 75 APO is unlikely. I think I'd be fine with the 21, 50 and 90. I slightly prefer the HB range.

The other thing is the selectable aspect ratios. XPan format is still 50MP. 1:1 is 80MP. I use this feature often for framing ideas in camera. I only have a few set so I can roll through them quickly.

The other thing is what happens to the SL3 firmware. There will be improvements. If those improvements include things like Leicas picture styles being read by Lightroom and being able to set the ISO on the right click dial like I can on the SL2 then I might change my mind. Being able to shoot b&w and colour on one camera in DNG and have that show up in LR would definitely change everything. It's my favourite thing about the Fujifilm cameras and I'd love for that from Leica. If I can change profiles from the new dial it makes the camera faster and more fluid to use, for me.

I do have a third option. Take both. A 14-24 and 24-90 for the SL3 and an X2D and 25, 55 and 90. I know I need a zoom for the festival days so this is a very viable option.

Gordon

p.s. My favourite systems are the SL3 (which includes the Q3), X1D/X2D and Sony A1. While I have a strong emotional attachment to my M's I'm more likely to carry an X1DII than it, currently. I prefer my M11M and Q2M for now but they're my 4th preference.

[sillbeers15]

I agree and respect fully the individual choice and opinion of camera & lenses each of us are entitled which makes the exchanges of views valuable & eye opening.

We should also be aware while camera makers fill our minds with their marketing ploy, there is much sharing of components and know how. 
One fact is Sony is the biggest producer of CMOS image sensor which is used in many other brands of digital cameras. So Nikon utilises Sony image sensor and Leica is likely candidate as well. While there are still other sharing of hardware components, each camera maker develop their own architecture of image processing & AF capability differentiating themselves from others.

Since having the Nikon Z9 body, I’ve also discovered that Nikon uses 0.8mm thickness cover glass over its CMOS sensor which is similar to Leica. I’ve adapted both my Noctilux 0.95 50mm & 21mm Summilux to my Z9 via two Techart AF adapters. I’m still in the process of verifying the real world results from actual usage for my own evaluation before making my own conclusion if I like the combination.

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Sure. Apologies to others for the OT post.

Firstly, I should have been a bit more specific. I'm going to Varanasi. Not all of India. On another trip to a different part I might choose something else. I was there for Dev Deepavali in November and I'm going back for Holi (yes I know this isn't the home of Holi) in 2025. I took 2 x X2D bodies and 6 lenses but mostly settled on three. The 28, 55 and 90mm (older one). I also had the 21, 135 and zoom but didn't use them. 

Mostly I had a 55 and 90 mounted and the 28 in a pocket. I was really happy with the photos and the cameras for this trip. Now I have the 90V and there's face detect I think it'll be even better. I was generally up close and personal so I didn't need longer than the 90mm. I really liked the clutch on the 55V. Now I'll have it on more lenses. I love the tiny 28mm and the 55 isn't much bigger. The IBIS is game changing for me. SO much better than any small format system except Olympus. All in all, it was just an incredibly enjoyable experience and I have zero regrets or wishes to change gear out.

This time I'll take a bit more because of the Holi festival days. It'll be the 25 (21 if the 25 doesn't arrive), 28, 55, 90V, 135 and the zoom. I know the zoom will be used on the Holi days (bagged) as I can't change lenses. Likely I'll have the 135 on the other body to get some reach. The other days will be the 25(28), 55 and 90 as I had last time.

The other option, as you wisely mentioned is the SL3. And I have 8 months to change my mind, several times. I could take the 24-90 for the festival days and a set of primes for everything else. Just like the X2D. I do like the slightly wider standard 55V for this type of shooting. Right now, I prefer that over either the 50 or 35 on the SL3. I didn't know that this would become my new favourite focal length before I got the lens but it is now after 35 years as a 50mm guy. I also like the X2D aspect ratio when shooting people. OTOH the SL3 is properly weather sealed and Holi is messy. My current APO lenses for the SL3 are the 21, 28, 50 and 90. The equivalent X2D 28, 55,90 set are a 22, 45, 71. I kind of think that slightly wider set is a better spread for being in and close. I'm not a 35mm focal length person so buying a 35 and 75 APO is unlikely. I think I'd be fine with the 21, 50 and 90. I slightly prefer the HB range.

The other thing is the selectable aspect ratios. XPan format is still 50MP. 1:1 is 80MP. I use this feature often for framing ideas in camera. I only have a few set so I can roll through them quickly.

The other thing is what happens to the SL3 firmware. There will be improvements. If those improvements include things like Leicas picture styles being read by Lightroom and being able to set the ISO on the right click dial like I can on the SL2 then I might change my mind. Being able to shoot b&w and colour on one camera in DNG and have that show up in LR would definitely change everything. It's my favourite thing about the Fujifilm cameras and I'd love for that from Leica. If I can change profiles from the new dial it makes the camera faster and more fluid to use, for me.

I do have a third option. Take both. A 14-24 and 24-90 for the SL3 and an X2D and 25, 55 and 90. I know I need a zoom for the festival days so this is a very viable option.

Gordon

p.s. My favourite systems are the SL3 (which includes the Q3), X1D/X2D and Sony A1. While I have a strong emotional attachment to my M's I'm more likely to carry an X1DII than it, currently. I prefer my M11M and Q2M for now but they're my 4th preference.

Thanks for the elaborate answer. I find both M11 and SL3 more mature systems than X2D. However, discussing the reasons would be outside the scope of this topic.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Thanks for the elaborate answer. I find both M11 and SL3 more mature systems than X2D. However, discussing the reasons would be outside the scope of this topic.

 

I'd agree with you.

I suppose it comes down to whether the system does enough where you don't feel needing. In India I didn't with the X2D. But I get others might.

Gordon

[Jim B]

On 5/7/2024 at 6:19 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Sure. Apologies to others for the OT post.

Firstly, I should have been a bit more specific. I'm going to Varanasi. Not all of India. On another trip to a different part I might choose something else. I was there for Dev Deepavali in November and I'm going back for Holi (yes I know this isn't the home of Holi) in 2025. I took 2 x X2D bodies and 6 lenses but mostly settled on three. The 28, 55 and 90mm (older one). I also had the 21, 135 and zoom but didn't use them. 

Mostly I had a 55 and 90 mounted and the 28 in a pocket. I was really happy with the photos and the cameras for this trip. Now I have the 90V and there's face detect I think it'll be even better. I was generally up close and personal so I didn't need longer than the 90mm. I really liked the clutch on the 55V. Now I'll have it on more lenses. I love the tiny 28mm and the 55 isn't much bigger. The IBIS is game changing for me. SO much better than any small format system except Olympus. All in all, it was just an incredibly enjoyable experience and I have zero regrets or wishes to change gear out.

This time I'll take a bit more because of the Holi festival days. It'll be the 25 (21 if the 25 doesn't arrive), 28, 55, 90V, 135 and the zoom. I know the zoom will be used on the Holi days (bagged) as I can't change lenses. Likely I'll have the 135 on the other body to get some reach. The other days will be the 25(28), 55 and 90 as I had last time.

The other option, as you wisely mentioned is the SL3. And I have 8 months to change my mind, several times. I could take the 24-90 for the festival days and a set of primes for everything else. Just like the X2D. I do like the slightly wider standard 55V for this type of shooting. Right now, I prefer that over either the 50 or 35 on the SL3. I didn't know that this would become my new favourite focal length before I got the lens but it is now after 35 years as a 50mm guy. I also like the X2D aspect ratio when shooting people. OTOH the SL3 is properly weather sealed and Holi is messy. My current APO lenses for the SL3 are the 21, 28, 50 and 90. The equivalent X2D 28, 55,90 set are a 22, 45, 71. I kind of think that slightly wider set is a better spread for being in and close. I'm not a 35mm focal length person so buying a 35 and 75 APO is unlikely. I think I'd be fine with the 21, 50 and 90. I slightly prefer the HB range.

The other thing is the selectable aspect ratios. XPan format is still 50MP. 1:1 is 80MP. I use this feature often for framing ideas in camera. I only have a few set so I can roll through them quickly.

The other thing is what happens to the SL3 firmware. There will be improvements. If those improvements include things like Leicas picture styles being read by Lightroom and being able to set the ISO on the right click dial like I can on the SL2 then I might change my mind. Being able to shoot b&w and colour on one camera in DNG and have that show up in LR would definitely change everything. It's my favourite thing about the Fujifilm cameras and I'd love for that from Leica. If I can change profiles from the new dial it makes the camera faster and more fluid to use, for me.

I do have a third option. Take both. A 14-24 and 24-90 for the SL3 and an X2D and 25, 55 and 90. I know I need a zoom for the festival days so this is a very viable option.

Gordon

p.s. My favourite systems are the SL3 (which includes the Q3), X1D/X2D and Sony A1. While I have a strong emotional attachment to my M's I'm more likely to carry an X1DII than it, currently. I prefer my M11M and Q2M for now but they're my 4th preference.

Hi Flash, 

 All I can say is …wow, lol. You must have gotten a good X2D because I returned mine asap. That left to right rocking lens mount made it a no go for me, and their customer service telling people the low tolerance manufacturing issue was actually designed that way was just insulting.  After the X1D release with all the bugs, over heating, click wheel issues…. I still can’t even sell that camera. Dealers, won’t even take it in a trade! 

I think you really nailed it on the head about knowing what camera you prefer to use. I can’t really complain about Leica, I love using it. The images make me happy. I have no idea why people think think need the fastest Af and burst possible, what is it that they are photographing? Honing your skills as a photographer, ie anticipating a moment and creating an image is a lot more important than spray and pray….

The only possible advantage that I will admit too on my A1 is the blackout free EVF. However, the times when I need to use that come with a day of retraining myself on how to choose the best af settings. I just don’t use it enough. It’s just not as enjoyable, and neither are the flat images that look like every other digital camera.

I like to just pick up the camera and use it, and that’s what my Leica’s do for me. In my studio, if I need to quickly check something I use the wireless tether to Leica fotos..it works great for me. I think it’s a great all around camera.

For my medium format work, I like the gfx II. It also “works” and wasn’t about to put up with HB’s bs… plus it has usable af, and any of my medium format work is going to be color graded anyhow…

Edited May 9, 2024 by Jim B