Leica SL3: 60 MP & Phase Detection AF

[lightsourcekauai]

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SL3 with VE 90-280

AFc, People profile, 4 frames per second.

Hit focus and tracked surfers nearly 100% of the time. I was getting 10 out of 10 hits on successive bursts. I was very pleased. Giddy, actually, at how precise, effective, and pleasurable it was to use when photographing these local surfers at a nearby break.

pic 4

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[lightsourcekauai]

SL3 with VE 90-280 is terrible for birds in flight. Just, woeful. 

AFc, Wildlife profile would hardly focus, much less track tropic birds in flight. Now, tropic birds are difficult birds to photograph. They are fast, dart through the air, and rarely fly in a straight line. So I knew it would be difficult, but I was shocked at just how bad this set up was for this particular task. I probably was getting less than 5% hits. Not keepers. Just hits. The EVF would go blurry as I was trying to track the birds, and very rarely did i see the yellow box around the bird in the EVF. I tried playing with the responsiveness sliders, but to no avail. Here is one of the few-- very few-- birds in flight pics that I kept.

White Tailed Tropic Bird

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Edited June 3, 2024 by lightsourcekauai
Bird identification

[rcusick]

For comparison.  Somewhat tongue in cheek…. Please laugh.  

Manual focus.  M11 and m6. Tele elmar 135mm. 


 

 

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[romaing]

9 hours ago, lightsourcekauai said:

SL3 with VE 90-280 is terrible for birds in flight. Just, woeful. 

AFc, Wildlife profile would hardly focus, much less track tropic birds in flight. Now, tropic birds are difficult birds to photograph. They are fast, dart through the air, and rarely fly in a straight line. So I knew it would be difficult, but I was shocked at just how bad this set up was for this particular task. I probably was getting less than 5% hits. Not keepers. Just hits. The EVF would go blurry as I was trying to track the birds, and very rarely did i see the yellow box around the bird in the EVF. I tried playing with the responsiveness sliders, but to no avail. Here is one of the few-- very few-- birds in flight pics that I kept.

White Tailed Tropic Bird

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the background color + the bird color would make this picture difficult even for my R5

[DirkZ]

Am 20.5.2024 um 13:49 schrieb simonoz:

I've been told by a camera tech you should never use a blower to clean the sensor of any camera as it pushes the dirt further in and behind the sensor. I had a SL2 that had dust all behind the sensor which I was told because I used a blower brush. shoot a shot at f16 into the sun and you will see. The only safe way to do it is with a magnetic brush like a arctic butterly.

To come back to this point....as others have written here: The camera has to be holded facing down the sensor an then blow on the sensor.

All these dust particles as you can see here have been removed just in use of the blower. Before I use the blower for my S5 II, I do a cleaning by the camera function (shaking the sensor). Then I use the blower. I do wet cleaning with sensor swabs in case nothing else helps.

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[lightsourcekauai]

4 hours ago, romaing said:

the background color + the bird color would make this picture difficult even for my R5

Well, funny you say that because I have an R5, too! And I was thinking the same thing so the very next day I hiked it and my RF 600 out to the same location. And while I totally understand that the 600 is more suited to photographing birds in flight than the VE 90-280 I still wanted to try to compare the two systems. In short I came home with 1,000 pics in about an hour of photographing (which is a problem on its own, and a discussion for another day) and reviewed them later. I/ the R5 was hitting focus about 99% of the time. Even most of the ones where I cut the bird out of frame (my error in tracking the bird) were mostly sharp. Afterwards, I was so happy I decided not to sell the R5 and 600. But this is also why I am happy that the SL3 did so well with the surfers. While the SL3 is a somewhat flawed camera, I have never liked a flawed machine so much. Just not with BIF. 🤣 But for everything else I think it will work just fine. 

[tom0511]

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I have not (yet) the SL3 but soon. I don't expect it to replace my R3 for sports. Its a dream wish but I don't think it would happen.

But I prefer the SL series for user interface color and prime-lenses. And the Zooms are excellent as well.

Edited June 4, 2024 by tom0511

[lightsourcekauai]

33 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

have not (yet) the SL3 but soon. I don't expect it to replace my R3 for sports. Its a dream wish but I don't think it would happen.

I think you will really like the SL3. I do. I  also think that for some sports you could certainly use it. Perhaps as a second, or when you don’t want to cull through a thousand excellent, but very similar to one another R3 images. When I preordered the SL3 I sold my R3 and a bunch of EF/ RF glass, but decided to keep my R5 and RF 600 f4. My reasoning was, similar to you, Leica image quality for landscape / seascapes, Leica APO lenses, user interface, and “feel”. Likewise, similar to you, I dreamed / hoped that the SL3 would be capable to photograph BIF and wildlife. And if it was then I’d invest in the Sigma 500 F/5.6. Now, I’m not sure if I will purchase that lens. I know that the SL3 cannot photograph BIF to my liking and or capability / skill.larger wildlife? I still don’t know. What I do know is that I should not force the camera to do what I think it is incapable of— especially when I have another more capable tool for that purpose. After my little test with the tropic birds I now know this. So much of a camera’s appeal is the confidence that it instills in the photographer.  Am I confident that the Leica SL3 will help me get outstanding landscape and seascape images? Yes. BIF? No. Wildlife? Maybe. Which is why I will continue to use the R5 and 600 f4, and perhaps invest in another APO lens to help the SL3 do what I think it does best: make me happy to photograph landscapes and seascapes confidently. And if, while out there, a bird happens to fly by? Well,  I may give it a try with the Leica or I might just smile as it sings its song and flies on by. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, lightsourcekauai said:

Well, funny you say that because I have an R5, too! And I was thinking the same thing so the very next day I hiked it and my RF 600 out to the same location. And while I totally understand that the 600 is more suited to photographing birds in flight than the VE 90-280 I still wanted to try to compare the two systems. In short I came home with 1,000 pics in about an hour of photographing (which is a problem on its own, and a discussion for another day) and reviewed them later. I/ the R5 was hitting focus about 99% of the time. Even most of the ones where I cut the bird out of frame (my error in tracking the bird) were mostly sharp. Afterwards, I was so happy I decided not to sell the R5 and 600. But this is also why I am happy that the SL3 did so well with the surfers. While the SL3 is a somewhat flawed camera, I have never liked a flawed machine so much. Just not with BIF. 🤣 But for everything else I think it will work just fine. 

No you are correct. The 90-280 is dissapointing AF wide on the SL3. The lens is a big part of the issue. It’s fine for larger subjects with limited AF movement (ie: larger subjects at a distance) but useless for erratic movement of any type. It’s a shame because the optics are close to the Canon 100-300 in IQ.

The 100-400 and Sigma 500 f5.6 fare much much better. Still not R5 level (let alone A1 or Z8) but you won’t want to pitch the lens off a cliff.

Maybe they can do something in firmware for the 90-280. Likely it doesn’t have the motor power to change the AF element direction quickly enough.

Gordon

[DirkZ]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

The 90-280 is dissapointing AF wide on the SL3.

On their website Leica is claiming it is very fast with its Dual Syncro Drive™. From zero to sharp in no time. That's marketing apperently.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 minutes ago, DirkZ said:

On their website Leica is claiming it is very fast with its Dual Syncro Drive™. From zero to sharp in no time. That's marketing apperently.

Yes. I think so. I’m happy enough in single shot with the SL3 an 90-280. It’s snappy. It’s NOT as quick as my other zooms, including the 100-400.

The issue is focus direction changes. It just gives up. That’s why the surf shots worked but the BiF failed. The bird was a difficult target. I’d be wanting an R3/5, Z8/9 or A7R5/A1 for that stuff. Currently the SL3 stands no chance.

BUT… The SL3 will improve. The firmware for animals is clearly marked as in beta. I think the whole AF system is. And lens improvements may also follow. Hope is eternal.

Gordon

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, DirkZ said:

On their website Leica is claiming it is very fast with its Dual Syncro Drive™. From zero to sharp in no time. That's marketing apperently.

the issue is more from sharp to zero. followed by nice bokeh balls, and more bokeh before you change direction with the lens.

[tom0511]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb lightsourcekauai:

I think you will really like the SL3. I do. I  also think that for some sports you could certainly use it. Perhaps as a second, or when you don’t want to cull through a thousand excellent, but very similar to one another R3 images. When I preordered the SL3 I sold my R3 and a bunch of EF/ RF glass, but decided to keep my R5 and RF 600 f4. My reasoning was, similar to you, Leica image quality for landscape / seascapes, Leica APO lenses, user interface, and “feel”. Likewise, similar to you, I dreamed / hoped that the SL3 would be capable to photograph BIF and wildlife. And if it was then I’d invest in the Sigma 500 F/5.6. Now, I’m not sure if I will purchase that lens. I know that the SL3 cannot photograph BIF to my liking and or capability / skill.larger wildlife? I still don’t know. What I do know is that I should not force the camera to do what I think it is incapable of— especially when I have another more capable tool for that purpose. After my little test with the tropic birds I now know this. So much of a camera’s appeal is the confidence that it instills in the photographer.  Am I confident that the Leica SL3 will help me get outstanding landscape and seascape images? Yes. BIF? No. Wildlife? Maybe. Which is why I will continue to use the R5 and 600 f4, and perhaps invest in another APO lens to help the SL3 do what I think it does best: make me happy to photograph landscapes and seascapes confidently. And if, while out there, a bird happens to fly by? Well,  I may give it a try with the Leica or I might just smile as it sings its song and flies on by. 

I dont think I will get rid of the R3. I rather use the SL3 for things where its strong, and dont try it to make it work for everything. I am still curious to see how much better the AF has become. Besides the body its a question of lenses. I really do like the R70200/2.8 and 100-500 and I am not sure if I gain much if anything to use a Sigma 70200 and Sigma 500 instead.

If the SL3 moves the limit a little bit further for usable C-AF I am fine for now.  I wish Leica would bring 2 or 3 own good Tele lenses in the future.

 

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, DirkZ said:

On their website Leica is claiming it is very fast with its Dual Syncro Drive™. From zero to sharp in no time. That's marketing apperently.

It was state-of-the-art at the time it came out, almost a decade ago. That design has been copied and improved upon in other lenses released since.

[SJH]

23 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

No you are correct. The 90-280 is dissapointing AF wide on the SL3. The lens is a big part of the issue. It’s fine for larger subjects with limited AF movement (ie: larger subjects at a distance) but useless for erratic movement of any type. It’s a shame because the optics are close to the Canon 100-300 in IQ.

The 100-400 and Sigma 500 f5.6 fare much much better. Still not R5 level (let alone A1 or Z8) but you won’t want to pitch the lens off a cliff.

Maybe they can do something in firmware for the 90-280. Likely it doesn’t have the motor power to change the AF element direction quickly enough.

Gordon

I think you it the nail on the head and something I also raised when I got my SL3 on launch day, the older SL lenses are going to struggle now while the latest like the 100-400, 35 & 50 ASPH and the new Sigma’s are right up to date. I just got the Sigma 50mm 1.2 and frankly even at 1.2 it’s lightening fast compared to the 50 APO and Summilux for example. I hear the Sigma 70-200 DG DN is just the same compared to the 90-280.

[tom0511]

So we can choose between medicore AF using Sigma lenses and under Medicare AF with Leica lenses?

Nothing against the Sigma lenses but one reason I bought into the SL System are the Leica lenses. 

SO I hope Leica will also update their own lenses to make them faster.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

12 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

So we can choose between medicore AF using Sigma lenses and under Medicare AF with Leica lenses?

Nothing against the Sigma lenses but one reason I bought into the SL System are the Leica lenses. 

SO I hope Leica will also update their own lenses to make them faster.

 

Well, Leica is prioritising ultimate IQ over ultimate speed, mostly. The only real culprits are the 90-280 and the APO SL Summicrons. When I put the 85GM on my A7R5 it’s no faster than the APO’s. The Nikon Noct just doesn’t even bother with an AF motor and has a focus throw of a 1942 Dodge’s steering turn. Canon’s 28-70 f2 is noticably slower than the 2.8. I’m not worried by the APO’s. They’re fine for their intended purpose where accuracy is vastly more important than speed.

The 90-280 dissapointing because it really does have a use case for stuff that moves. I’m not sure what’s going on either. It has dual motors. It should be quick. I really am hoping it’s a firmware thing. It’s pretty good in AFS. But yeah, I get that it should be much better in AFC. My 100-400 is really really good. And I’d likely choose it as a travel and sports companion because of the reach. But I was very disappointed by the AF on the 90-280 as it’s the perfect companion to the Sigma 500. Optically it rivals the Canon 100-300. Ant the stop difference means it’s smaller, lighter and cheaper than the Canon option.. I never expected Canon Af. But even so it lets you down unless the light is perfect.

I get that some are here for the whole Leica lens experience. But for me, I’m here for the L mount. The availability of choice is one of the things I like most. The little Sigma 50 DGDN is 90% of the APO and 1/5th the cost. You can have both. The Leica non APO is a little better again and weather sealed and has fast AF. The 14-24 and 100-400 are so good Lieca has a version of them. I prefer the 14-24 over the 16-35 90% of the time. I pick up my 50 1.2 tomorrow. I think the 100mm Panasonic is the ultimate travel macro lens. The 500 and 60-600 are just fabulous by any metric, measured against any other brand. None of this means I can’t also have a set of APO SL Summicrons for when they shine. At the same time when I’m travelling and putting my cameras in dirty grimy places with no tripod and sometimes one handed, I’m glad for a smaller, lighter cheaper option. And Sigma is a major player in the lens world right now. Canon and Nikon shooters would love to have access to Sigmas best.

I would LOVE a 90-280II, if the current one can’t be improved with software.

Gordon

[thebarnman]

7 hours ago, SJH said:

I think you it the nail on the head and something I also raised when I got my SL3 on launch day, the older SL lenses are going to struggle now while the latest like the 100-400, 35 & 50 ASPH and the new Sigma’s are right up to date. I just got the Sigma 50mm 1.2 and frankly even at 1.2 it’s lightening fast compared to the 50 APO and Summilux for example. I hear the Sigma 70-200 DG DN is just the same compared to the 90-280.

A review about those SL lenses also say the new ASPH are quite (no noise) while the APOs you can hear them while focusing.  

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Hallo,

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[tom0511]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

Well, Leica is prioritising ultimate IQ over ultimate speed, mostly.......

Gordon

I agree and thats also the reason that I still would use the 90-280 even if it is a bit slower, if I use the SL(3)-body.

I agree about the Pana 100 Macro. Got that lens its a very flexible, super light and compact lens.

My first impressions with my new SL3 are that C-AF leads to contastant noise and small back an forth focusing, and it also seems to lead to a slightly blurry viewfinder image.

But I have to experiment more. For now I am with S-AF when using the SL3. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

18 hours ago, thebarnman said:

A review about those SL lenses also say the new ASPH are quite (no noise) while the APOs you can hear them while focusing.  

The difference is so small as to be insignificant. Your models won’t be horrified by your whirring and grinding noises. If they are then a look at your behaviour in public might be appropriate.

Gordon