Shattered LCD screen (M10-R). Any risks?

[alles]

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Dear colleagues,

This morning a bumble bee got between my glasses and my eyes...brisk mouvement and camera down on a stone. Result: a fully shattered LCD (the plastic touch cover, but the LCD seems functional behind it). It is just hard to see. Some pieces have flaked off and even manage to cut my finger with a splinter. I immediately went into a mobile phone repair shop to stick a "screen protection" film... I was wondering anyone has heard that having such a broken screen can pose any issues internally to the camera? Oxydation of sensor?

Why am I asking? I just had my M10-R twice in Wetzlar, lasted 4 month each time (the first time they messed up the repair after covid) and now my dealer tells me it will take 6 month minimum.

Best from Switzerland

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[jaapv]

I feel for you but I fear that your dealer is right. It must be off to Wetzlar. I hope you are insured, this is not a cheap repair and there may be internal damage as well. Maybe you can persuade Leica to provide a loaner. 

[earleygallery]

The daft thing is that the repair is probably done in a few hours, but they take your camera off you and leave it sitting in a line of stuff waiting to be fixed for 6 months-ish until they get to it.

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Obviously if the item is damaged to the point you can't use it then it doesn't matter but for those with functioning equipment that just needs some specific repair or service it would seem a much better solution, as well as driving more business to Leica.

[alles]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

I feel for you but I fear that your dealer is right. It must be off to Wetzlar. I hope you are insured, this is not a cheap repair and there may be internal damage as well. Maybe you can persuade Leica to provide a loaner. 

Thank you Jaap, yes, I believe this is the only solution. However I found a gentleman who (Leica M9) just removed the debris and cut a piece of plexiglas and inserted it and seemed to work fine. But some pieces might have gotten in the camera in my case.

27 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

The daft thing is that the repair is probably done in a few hours, but they take your camera off you and leave it sitting in a line of stuff waiting to be fixed for 6 months-ish until they get to it.

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Obviously if the item is damaged to the point you can't use it then it doesn't matter but for those with functioning equipment that just needs some specific repair or service it would seem a much better solution, as well as driving more business to Leica.

Earlygallery, you are underlining a big issue, and by the way, I like this solution of inserting the camera in a pipeline. In my case it could be a good solution as it still "works". More largely, the issue of repair I am afraid is more systemic. I once met the only serviceman in the Swiss office who finally after he left in retirement, had to come back a day a week to the great dismay of his wife. They had found a young man who was willing to learn the skill. But after 9 month or so he quit. Maybe due to workload, I don't know. But in many other areas here in Switzerland it's hard to find people willing and able to learn skilled work.

And with Wetzlar, I heard many of the grey-haired folks, many of them left during covid into early retirement. I don't know if it is specifically true, but in other areas it was the case and there was no proper succession planning. As for such a company like Leica it means paying 2 headcounts with only a 1.2 factor efficiency for a few years and I can guess that investors don't like that.

For me Leica's problem of customer care will only go increasing over time. And when one promisses a "Mercedes" level camera, one expects (at least I do), a Mercedes quality of service.

I have had another issue worth mentioning less for the fact in itself than what stands behing it. They said my 35mm 1.4 lens needed calibrating. I got it back but never used it. When I send it in I asked them to remove the focus dongle/notch (not sure about the name), which they did. The repair was billed 400 dollars. At the same time they had to readjust the telemeter of the Leica. When I tried the camera, both the vertical and horizontal were out of alignement. So I send the camera back, including the lens (the guy of the shop suggested it). Again, they said the lens needed adjustment...and they added the dongle again and charged 450 for it... Finally the camera came back properly adjusted and the lens is fine as I immediately tried it. In all, out of 18 month of the lifetime of the camera it has been 8 month in Wetzlar.

The finally issue is that when i brought the camera the second time I had also given them my super sharp Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar. They said it wasn't necessary to send it to Wetzlar after they had send everything to the swiss office and asked me to fetch that lens and one other back at the shop. The metal lenshood had a huge dent. It is solid aluminum, very thick. The dent must have required at lead 10kg of force weight, such as a fall on the floor. They replaced it...but said they couldn't check the lens. Now I tried it and it out of aligment but they refuse to fix it...no comment!

In all Leica has been a very bad experience over the past 2 years. My first experience in the 80ies however was glorious when I could use the camera of my professor.

To conclude, now they told me it will now take 6 month. That's why I am perhaps going to try a DYI and just put a plexiglas window, even if I loose the touch capability. Worse case I can still send it in.

I started photography in 1984 as a Nikon user and when would travel to Africa would often stop at the Nikon Professional Service shop in Zurich and the camera was cleaned in a few hours. The camera fell of motorcycles several times and nothing ever happened besides bad scratches. They were very robust and were repairable in a few days if something bad happened, speaking namely of the Nikon D3s and Nikon D5.

Thanks for both your comments

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Edited March 1, 2024 by alles

[jaapv]

I fear that it is more than a few hours and a piece of glass.
They will have to take half the camera apart to replace the complete LCD assembly. The sensor certainly needs to be realigned, the rangefinder checked for damage and adjustment, the lens mount alignment must be checked and possibly corrected. 
I too would remember the good old days in the eighties and nineties when I would walk into Odin-Leica Netherlands and sit and chat with the technicians whilst my camera was worked on. Alas, far in the past…

[adan]

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

The daft thing is that the repair is probably done in a few hours, but they take your camera off you and leave it sitting in a line of stuff waiting to be fixed for 6 months-ish until they get to it.

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Walk me through how "reserving a slot" works.

Leica cannot predict what actually needs repair in any given device (lens, camera, etc.), or how long that will take, until it is in their hands and they can inspect it themselves.

So if there are, say, 236 repairs in line in front of you, and they may take anywhere from "a few hours" to "a few days" to "1-2 weeks," how can Leica possibly assign anyone a reliable "slot" ahead of time? 236 x (???) = (???).

[Stevejack]

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16 minutes ago, adan said:

 

So if there are, say, 236 repairs in line in front of you, and they may take anywhere from "a few hours" to "a few days" to "1-2 weeks," how can Leica possibly assign anyone a reliable "slot" ahead of time? 236 x (???) = (???).

There's a big difference between being able to predict a repair window to within a few days / weeks, and knowing that you're 6 months away from being able to even look at a camera.  

They could send out notices in batches based on order of contact. So for example anyone who contacted them November 2023 for repair, they send out a notice now stating that customers can send those cameras in for a March-April repair window. Something like that would work better than the current system, surely?

 

[costa43]

6 hours ago, earleygallery said:

The daft thing is that the repair is probably done in a few hours, but they take your camera off you and leave it sitting in a line of stuff waiting to be fixed for 6 months-ish until they get to it.

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Obviously if the item is damaged to the point you can't use it then it doesn't matter but for those with functioning equipment that just needs some specific repair or service it would seem a much better solution, as well as driving more business to Leica.

This is a really good idea. Especially for small bits like a lens CLA when the item is still usable. I sent my Summilux v3 to them in November to clear off some haze, the lens was shooting fine in almost almost all scenarios as it was so I would of happily held onto it until a week or so before the work could be done. They still have it! It’s a real joke at the moment. 

[adan]

5 hours ago, Stevejack said:

.....they send out a notice now stating that customers can send those cameras in for a March-April repair window.

Well, not March-April. That is the end of Leica's fiscal year and no one does much of anything except take inventory and similar paperwork. Guaranteed to add at least a couple of  weeks to any repair, even when the norm was a lot shorter than it is now. (Been there, done that.)

But leaving that specific "radioactive repair hotspot" aside... actually, I'll save any other comments for the overall repair-times thread. Enough duplicative thread drift already.

Really sorry about alles unfortunate damage. 😰

[Smudgerer]

10 hours ago, earleygallery said:

The daft thing is that the repair is probably done in a few hours, but they take your camera off you and leave it sitting in a line of stuff waiting to be fixed for 6 months-ish until they get to it.

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Obviously if the item is damaged to the point you can't use it then it doesn't matter but for those with functioning equipment that just needs some specific repair or service it would seem a much better solution, as well as driving more business to Leica.

There's an excellent camera / lens service and repair workshop in Belgium that runs a booking system just like this, ( Camera Revival ), and that works just fine. It would have to be upscaled in Leica's case seeing how large their repair and service load seems to be these days, ( sadly ), but you are right, something like this could and should be initiated at Wetzlar.........Not that it is likely to happen though.

[alles]

9 hours ago, jaapv said:

I fear that it is more than a few hours and a piece of glass.
They will have to take half the camera apart to replace the complete LCD assembly. The sensor certainly needs to be realigned, the rangefinder checked for damage and adjustment, the lens mount alignment must be checked and possibly corrected. 
I too would remember the good old days in the eighties and nineties when I would walk into Odin-Leica Netherlands and sit and chat with the technicians whilst my camera was worked on. Alas, far in the past…

Dear Jaapv, the upset of this accident yesterday got me furious but the night always helps in "being one with the situation". Your comment helped me and will bring the camera in the shop to send it in, what ever it costs. There is no reason why this camera cannot be still used in a few years. Have a lovely weekend wherever your are.

Thanks Adan, Costa Smudger and all for some of the comments. I had a phone call with a friend of mine who is in the industrial sector and the customer care service as we know it today might be changing. We were highly mechanical, then electro-mechanical, then... and the combination of mechianical and electronic is just not tenable over time, especially for consumer products. Maybe in 20 years, we'll have robots 100% building devices. If broken, they are just "changed" at a cheaper price. If that is the view, I will just have to change my mentality.

[jaapv]

8 hours ago, Stevejack said:

There's a big difference between being able to predict a repair window to within a few days / weeks, and knowing that you're 6 months away from being able to even look at a camera.  

They could send out notices in batches based on order of contact. So for example anyone who contacted them November 2023 for repair, they send out a notice now stating that customers can send those cameras in for a March-April repair window. Something like that would work better than the current system, surely?

 

They will assess the camera within a few days and send out a quote, regardless of the repair wait. 

[Luke_Miller]

16 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I've said before why can't they devise some kind of system whereby you reserve a slot in the line, when your time is approaching they send you a message to get your camera or lens to them by XX date and then you'd only be without it for a couple of weeks.

Back when the M9 and MM cameras were having their sensors replaced due to cover glass corrosion Leica NJ instituted such a policy.  As soon as the MM sensors with the revised cover glass became available I contacted Leica NJ and put my name in the queue.  About four months later I received an email telling me that my slot was coming up and to send it in. Which I did, but unfortunately Leica NJ's receiving department failed to notice that I had a reservation and put my body at the end of the line.  So unbeknownst to me, this put my MM something like four months away from a tech starting work. Expecting the advertised two week turn around, I began contacting Leica NJ after nothing heard after about three weeks.  Initially they could provide no info regarding my camera other than that they had received it.  Eventually they quit responding completely. I contacted my dealer, Tony Rose at popflash, and they did respond to him.  He got things back on track and I got my repaired MM back in a month after contacting Tony.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Luke_Miller

[rpsawin]

I fear the damage to your camera is beyond just replacing parts. My suggestion is to get the camera to Leica and let the process unfold as it may. While the wait and uncertainty is nerve-racking it pays off in the end with a proper repair with proper parts. Best of luck to you

[alles]

4 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

Back when the M9 and MM cameras were having their sensors replaced due to cover glass corrosion Leica NJ instituted such a policy.  As soon as the MM sensors with the revised cover glass became available I contacted Leica NJ and put my name in the queue.  About four months later I received an email telling me that my slot was coming up and to send it in. Which I did, but unfortunately Leica NJ's receiving department failed to notice that I had a reservation and put my body at the end of the line.  So unbeknownst to me, this put my MM something like four months away from a tech starting work. Expecting the advertised two week turn around, I began contacting Leica NJ after nothing heard after about three weeks.  Initially they could provide no info regarding my camera other than that they had received it.  Eventually they quit responding completely. I contacted my dealer, Tony Rose at popflash, and they did respond to him.  He got things back on track and I got my repaired MM back in a month after contacting Tony.

Luke, on another topic, I saw the link to your website and beamed in the television and served myself a good Glenorangie 18 years and enjoyed your slide shop of your mainly european tour, thanks, Al

[Luke_Miller]

18 hours ago, alles said:

Luke, on another topic, I saw the link to your website and beamed in the television and served myself a good Glenorangie 18 years and enjoyed your slide shop of your mainly european tour, thanks, Al

Glad you enjoyed it.  The photos and slideshows are our memories of favorite times.

[earleygallery]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:35 AM, adan said:

Walk me through how "reserving a slot" works.

Leica cannot predict what actually needs repair in any given device (lens, camera, etc.), or how long that will take, until it is in their hands and they can inspect it themselves.

So if there are, say, 236 repairs in line in front of you, and they may take anywhere from "a few hours" to "a few days" to "1-2 weeks," how can Leica possibly assign anyone a reliable "slot" ahead of time? 236 x (???) = (???).

I'm not saying they get it down to 'just in time' but instead of holding onto people's gear for 6 months or more, they can surely know approximately how much work they have and how long it will take them to clear it, so they only allow a backlog of 1-2months work to pile up at a time.

As I said, for some it won't matter, i.e. if the fault means the item is totally broken, but if it's a a service or 'minor' repair then it would mean users don't have to spend so long without their equipment.

[adan]

I find the word "Surely" implies some hidden assumption - which I may, or may not recognize as accurate or reasonable. Therefore I pay little attention to arguments that depend on that word.

For example:

"Surely, Leica owners could dial back their Type-A personality traits (if present - ambitious, rigidly organized, highly status-conscious, impatient, anxious, proactive, and concerned with time management.)"

Many of which I share, but since I have discovered how unattractive they are to others (and raise the blood pressure), I now suppress - and "go with the flow" (most of the time, anyway 🤪 ). I try to reserve "rigidly organized, etc." for my own behavior, not the behavior of others.

Leica's gear servicing is why I've always have multiple cameras for back-up, and a lens distribution with enough overlap (e.g. 21/28/35; 50/75) so that I can live without any one in particular for as long as needed.

I just bought a 21 Elmarit ASPH, and sent it to Leica for 6-bit coding. In view of the current service delays, I carefully kept my aging 21mm Elmarit-M (1980) until the ASPH returns - whenever.

"Rigidly-organized and proactive" > "not impatient nor concerned with time management (at least Leica's)."

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