Leica 35mm APO Summicron M

[hansvons]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 2/23/2024 at 1:36 AM, brickftl said:

wondering what people think of this lens.

They had to make it as a kind of demarcation lens. Some thoughts:

For FF photography, the price is hideous, even in Leica's terms. It’s not the pinnacle of 35mm lenses. That’s the 35mm SL APO.
Typically, 35mm lenses are used on location and not studio. The price tag would keep me from risking the lens even in moderate situations. That’s a compromise I’m not willing to take. If you are on a properly insured shoot, that’s different, of course.

For an f2 lens, the size and weight are considerable. In my eyes, the M system’s uniqueness is user experience, which is built among other things on size.

In terms of sharpness and flare resistance, the 4-times cheaper 35mm Summarit is a serious contender. And it’s smaller and lighter. It will probably even keep value better. 

Bottomline: if I were looking for the ultimate IQ I’d get a used SL2 and a 35mm SL APO for the price of a new M 35mm APO. If I were looking for the best user experience for 35mm and high IQ, I’d buy the 35mm Summarit. Please note that close focus with that lens is 80cm and not macro-ish like the APO’s close focus. But something has to give. 

 

Edited February 25, 2024 by hansvons

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[JTLeica]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:03 AM, Al Brown said:

My buddy bought one and sent it back due to decenterig only to be told by Leica it si "within tolerances". I wrote about it here on the forum.

For 7k there should be no tolerance, Leica.

 

[JTLeica]

Brick. If you want a lens almost as good and better than your Ultron go for the Voigt 35 APO. 

One day maybe I will buy the 35 and 50 apo crons (again for the 50), but, I have already bought two 50 APO summicrons and one was horribly decentred and the other never actually focussed to infinity. So to say I am put off is an understatement.

[londond]

Each to their own - I enjoy Ms primarily for the user experience, and like the cleanest possible images which I sometimes play with in post.  My other M lenses are 21 SEM, 50 APO and I’m mulling a 75 APO - so all in the same vein.  If I could only keep one, it would be the 35 APO which I find a joy to use, size v performance is great, with headroom to crop on M11/M if necessary.

Can see it’s not for people who prefer more vintage lenses, or indeed those have something more sensible to spend their money on. Am sure there are many lenses which are as good but in a different way and cost a lot less. 

[RexGig0]

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

They had to make it as a kind of demarcation lens. Some thoughts:

For FF photography, the price is hideous, even in Leica's terms. It’s not the pinnacle of 35mm lenses. That’s the 35mm SL APO.
Typically, 35mm lenses are used on location and not studio. The price tag would keep me from risking the lens even in moderate situations. That’s a compromise I’m not willing to take. If you are on a properly insured shoot, that’s different, of course.

For an f2 lens, the size and weight are considerable. In my eyes, the M system’s uniqueness is user experience, which is built among other things on size.

In terms of sharpness and flare resistance, the 4-times cheaper 35mm Summarit is a serious contender. And it’s smaller and lighter. It will probably even keep value better. 

Bottomline: if I were looking for the ultimate IQ I’d get a used SL2 and a 35mm SL APO for the price of a new M 35mm APO. If I were looking for the best user experience for 35mm and high IQ, I’d buy the 35mm Summarit. Please note that close focus with that lens is 80cm and not macro-ish like the APO’s close focus. But something has to give. 

 

I agree, regarding the SL option. The SL APO is better-correctly, optically, than the M APO, so, opting for the M APO would, quite simply, not be a best business decision, from an accounting point of view, and, as I see it, not a best “tactical” decision, either, because if I need the best of the best, among Leica 35mm lenses, it is not the M APO.

I agree, regarding the importance of the user experience, though in my case, minimal size is not normally a priority. (I tend to like using the lens barrel as a “grip accessory.”) I would have to handle the APO M 35, on an M camera, to know whether I like its handling/ergonomics. I do not own one, but actually really like the size and handling qualities of the pre-2022 Summilux-M ASPH FLE, with the threaded hood. (The same hood is on my Elmar-M 24mm ASPH.)

I have no experience with the 35mm Summarit lenses, so, will defer to your judgement, on the matter. 🙂

To be clear, I am not meaning to demonstrate “hate” or ill will toward the APO M 35, or the shooters who favor it. I want Leica to thrive.

Regarding the “hideous” pricing, I remember, when trying to decide whether I would want to acquire a Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux 35mm, that its $3895 US price was half that of the $8295 US price of the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH lens. While these two 35mm lenses do, obviously, render differently, and therefore perform different jobs, I saw the Re-Edition Steel Rim as likely to be the more fun lens to use. So, for most use cases, in which I would want to have an M camera, I would rather have the more-fun lens, anyway. Playing with sunlight-induced flare is fun. Playing with the “Leica glow,” at f/1.4, is fun. 🙂 (I am not a professional photographer. In the seven years before I retired, from a career in public service, one of my added duties was to photograph some sad, grim, tragic things. A reason I added the Leica M system was to take my photography in different directions, after retirement, to re-learn how to enjoy photography.) 

 

 

[Kiwimac]

I have the APO version and before that had the close focus Summilux version.

I cannot put my finger on why, but the lens has been welded to my M11 since the day I got it. I carried a 50 Lux all around Portugal for a month - and never used it once. Likewise, I was just in Sydney for four days and the same thing - never used it once.

The lens is so good and the images have a quality I cannot identify or explain (at least to my eye).

I have decided my 50 Lux is really not going to get much use now and I will sell it and get a 75 Apo.

With the 35 and the 75, I won't need any more glass, ever. (Not saying I won't GET any more, mind - just that I won't actually need it!)

What I need next after that is another M11 so I do not need to waste time changing lenses.

[st4u]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 2/24/2024 at 1:10 PM, evikne said:

For me, technical perfection is way down the list. Much more important are size, design and tactile feel. But the 35mm APO-Summicron also seems to possess all this, and a side effect of the technical perfection is nice and smooth bokeh, which I also appreciate. So all in all, this is a lens I'd still like to try if I ever get the chance.

Evikne,

I  watch your  pictures from time to rime. I appreciate your graceful art.

i can assure: you will lose  a kind of magic in your pictures with the technical perfection of the apo, if you use it in the same way, how you see your world.

The apo is only a driver for GAS. I will sell mine after one year, confirmed bythat discussions.

regards Chris

Edited April 1, 2024 by st4u

[evikne]

15 minutes ago, st4u said:

Evikne,

I  watch your  pictures from time to rime. I appreciate your graceful art.

i can assure: you will lose  a kind of magic in your pictures with the technical perfection of the apo, if you use it in the same way, how you see your world.

The apo is only a driver for GAS. I will sell mine after one year, confirmed bythat discussions.

regards Chris

Thank you, I really appreciate your comment. And you're probably right; it's only GAS that makes me want this lens. I'd better stick with what I have.

Edited April 1, 2024 by evikne

[brickftl]

I had forgotten about this thread that I posted in February. Since then I've totally changed my thinking on what I want from a 35, and finally decided on the steel rim reissue. My thinking: I crave the vintage look when it's shot wide open especially at night yet stopped down a bit and it becomes sharp in the center (and more stopped down it picks up sharpness in corners which isn't a priority or concern for me). 

My 2 other lenses are 50/1.4 lux asph for portraits and closer street work (love love love that lens) and a 21/3.4 super elmar for landscape and another way to shoot street.

I suspect in my case that no matter what lens I'm using (including the 35 steel rim or a 35 APO if I got one in a whim), it's not the lens that will create great images, but rather it's me and what inspiration and opportunities present themselves as I wander my world with the M10 slung over my shoulder. 

[Jan1985]

I think that in comparison of the 35 APO-M and the APO-SL version you forgot something really basic. Why is the APO-SL optically a bit better? Simple. It‘s physicially a lot of bigger so its much easier to put in more glass, more room for any kind of optical correction. That is also what Peter Karbe said.

The art of the 35 APO-M is to put in so much optical „perfection“ into the smallest space you can imagine. And when you think of the this worm gearbox which realizes the 0.3m minimum focus distance than you realize what piece of engineering art it is.

I work with the APO for nearly a now. Yeah of course it has some kind of clinical perfection. but on the other hand it also has a taste of character and organic signature. but far from something like a noctilux.

[Kiwimac]

It’s my favourite lens. I traded a 35 Lux (plusa pile of cash) for it and don’t regret it at all. 
 

Just fantastic. 

Edited April 29, 2024 by Kiwimac

[DrM]

I own the APO35M, love it, small, close-up, beautiful rendering, no compromise. I looked at the APO alternatives, but there is always a compromise (size, weight, quality, etc..). It is just f.....g expensive. As for the APO35SL, I owned it, it is good, but I never enjoyed it. For all the APO SL lenses all corrections are done in the body, there is the L-mount.. which is less flexible to fit your lens on a different body. 

 

My 2cts

Marc

 

 

 

[Jan1985]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb DrM:

I own the APO35M, love it, small, close-up, beautiful rendering, no compromise. I looked at the APO alternatives, but there is always a compromise (size, weight, quality, etc..). It is just f.....g expensive. As for the APO35SL, I owned it, it is good, but I never enjoyed it. For all the APO SL lenses all corrections are done in the body, there is the L-mount.. which is less flexible to fit your lens on a different body. 

 

My 2cts

Marc

 

 

 

Exactly. That’s it! I also photograph weddings with the APO. I had doubts because of no signature. But it does. Very gentle 

[RexGig0]

On 4/2/2024 at 6:44 AM, brickftl said:

I had forgotten about this thread that I posted in February. Since then I've totally changed my thinking on what I want from a 35, and finally decided on the steel rim reissue. My thinking: I crave the vintage look when it's shot wide open especially at night yet stopped down a bit and it becomes sharp in the center (and more stopped down it picks up sharpness in corners which isn't a priority or concern for me). 

My 2 other lenses are 50/1.4 lux asph for portraits and closer street work (love love love that lens) and a 21/3.4 super elmar for landscape and another way to shoot street.

I suspect in my case that no matter what lens I'm using (including the 35 steel rim or a 35 APO if I got one in a whim), it's not the lens that will create great images, but rather it's me and what inspiration and opportunities present themselves as I wander my world with the M10 slung over my shoulder. 

I like your combination of lenses! 🙂 Well-chosen!

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is THE one Leica product that drove me to add the Leica M system, six yers ago, and remains my favorite. I bought my Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux-M 35 last July, the first M lens that I bought new, rather than pre-owned. I acquired a nicely compact Zeiss 21mm f/4,5 Biogon C, rather early, to use on my Monochrom 246, and then, in 2022, added a Voigtlander Nokton 21mm f/1.4, for shooting color with my M10, so, it may be quite some time, if ever, before I finally add a Leica 21mm SEM, but I certainly do admire work done by the SEM. (The Zeiss Biogon C, designed in the film era, shows color shift, due to light ray angle issues, when used on pre-M11 digital Leica M cameras.)

On the original topic, my acquisition of an APO ‘Cron-M 35 ASPH would require me to make some painful sales and trades, to fund it. Three of my “fast” Nikon telephoto lenses are becoming a bit heavy, as I age, but, Nikon SLR lenses have plunged so much, in value, that selling all three of them would not completely fund the APO. And, to be honest, I have considered selling one or two of those fast Nikon telephoto lenses, just to help with the general household budget.

So, looking at my less-used Leica M lenses, my least-used is my Thambar-M 90mm, which I acquired pre-owned, but even so, remains my most-expensive Leica M lens acquisition. I could sell both of my Leica M telephoto lenses, the Thambar and my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, to fund the APO 35, which would leave me with no wide-aperture “portrait telephoto” M lens, though I could still use a Zeiss 85mm f/4 Tele Tessar, which is more of a landscape and generalist lens. Ultimately, I am simply not yet feeling sufficient desire for an APO M 35, to stimulate me to sell/trade any of my Leica-brand M lenses.

If Leica were to update the Summicron-M 40mm, creating an APO M 40mm ASPH, well, THAT would get my attention!

 

[brickftl]

1 hour ago, RexGig0 said:

I like your combination of lenses! 🙂 Well-chosen!

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is THE one Leica product that drove me to add the Leica M system, six yers ago, and remains my favorite. I bought my Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux-M 35 last July, the first M lens that I bought new, rather than pre-owned. I acquired a nicely compact Zeiss 21mm f/4,5 Biogon C, rather early, to use on my Monochrom 246, and then, in 2022, added a Voigtlander Nokton 21mm f/1.4, for shooting color with my M10, so, it may be quite some time, if ever, before I finally add a Leica 21mm SEM, but I certainly do admire work done by the SEM. (The Zeiss Biogon C, designed in the film era, shows color shift, due to light ray angle issues, when used on pre-M11 digital Leica M cameras.)

On the original topic, my acquisition of an APO ‘Cron-M 35 ASPH would require me to make some painful sales and trades, to fund it. Three of my “fast” Nikon telephoto lenses are becoming a bit heavy, as I age, but, Nikon SLR lenses have plunged so much, in value, that selling all three of them would not completely fund the APO. And, to be honest, I have considered selling one or two of those fast Nikon telephoto lenses, just to help with the general household budget.

So, looking at my less-used Leica M lenses, my least-used is my Thambar-M 90mm, which I acquired pre-owned, but even so, remains my most-expensive Leica M lens acquisition. I could sell both of my Leica M telephoto lenses, the Thambar and my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, to fund the APO 35, which would leave me with no wide-aperture “portrait telephoto” M lens, though I could still use a Zeiss 85mm f/4 Tele Tessar, which is more of a landscape and generalist lens. Ultimately, I am simply not yet feeling sufficient desire for an APO M 35, to stimulate me to sell/trade any of my Leica-brand M lenses.

If Leica were to update the Summicron-M 40mm, creating an APO M 40mm ASPH, well, THAT would get my attention!

 

just my 2 cents on your kit: 

I also have the steel rim reissue and absolutely LOVE what it produces wide open. But stopped down to say 2.8 and beyond, it becomes tack sharp, thereby (IMHO) making it a versatile multiple purpose lens all in a fabulously compact package. As such I wouldn't spend the huge amount of money getting the 36 cron apo.

[BillCB]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:52 PM, Kiwimac said:

I have the APO version and before that had the close focus Summilux version.

I cannot put my finger on why, but the lens has been welded to my M11 since the day I got it. I carried a 50 Lux all around Portugal for a month - and never used it once. Likewise, I was just in Sydney for four days and the same thing - never used it once.

The lens is so good and the images have a quality I cannot identify or explain (at least to my eye).

I have decided my 50 Lux is really not going to get much use now and I will sell it and get a 75 Apo.

With the 35 and the 75, I won't need any more glass, ever. (Not saying I won't GET any more, mind - just that I won't actually need it!)

What I need next after that is another M11 so I do not need to waste time changing lenses.

What's "need" got to do with lens purchases? I prefer the word "want".

[BillCB]

I bought the Apo 35 M as soon as it was available. It sits on my M11-P semi-permanently.

Why? Because I have been primarily an MF shooter - but I can't tell the difference in resolution on a one metre-wide print taken with the Phase One 55mm lens and 150 mpx MF back. The Leica is simply that good for highly detailed landscape work.

[RMF]

On 5/5/2024 at 10:28 AM, BillCB said:

I bought the Apo 35 M as soon as it was available. It sits on my M11-P semi-permanently.

Why? Because I have been primarily an MF shooter - but I can't tell the difference in resolution on a one metre-wide print taken with the Phase One 55mm lens and 150 mpx MF back. The Leica is simply that good for highly detailed landscape work.

The APO 35 is also almost nearly permanently mounted to my M11. Yes, it’s without any really character but that why I like about it is it doesn’t make any real lens statement; it has knife edge sharpness from corner to corner and mild simple ‘if not boring’ bokeh. Love this lens, the size and weight, compactness, the protective qualities of the factory hood, and the overall build quality.  Sample shot around/4 ish’ (unprocessed but a little magenta..thanks M11 😄)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited May 11, 2024 by RMF

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jan1985]

I don‘t understand why you think this lens has no character. Character is the way it renders and i love it. It has its own signature like any other lens. Just not as swirly or playful such as a noctilux.

[Pika898]

I just had this lens arrived earlier this week and it probably has a smoother bokeh compared to the fle I was coming from. Also noted a fast fall off from the pane of focus.