50/1.2 vs 50/1.4 pre-asph

[tom0511]

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I am looking for an older (optical design) 50 lens mainly for use on my new M11Mono.

Canon anyone comment ont he above lenses new 50/1.2 vs 50/1.4 preasph?

From what I see the Noctilux should be softer wide open, but what a comparable f-stops?

Anybody having used both and can tell me a little bit?

I love how the 50/1.4II (pre-pre-asph) looks like, but 1m shortest distance  is a disadvantage. oooh, I just see the Noctilux also seems to have 1m.

Anyways - what do you guys find about the rendering?

Best, Tom

Edited February 20, 2024 by tom0511

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[dpitt]

You couldn't find 2 lenses with 50mm FL that are more different. Size and weight difference is quite noticeable and affects use. I often prefer my smaller Summicron v4 over my Summilux pre-ASPH because of size and weight. I think that I would use a Noctilux on even fewer occasions because of that, even if I could afford it.

And that is a different aspect, money... I like to use my camera's with care but without fear of using them either. One little scratch on a mint Noctilux could cost me more than a user Summicron lens, so it would affect my use.

Having said that, on occasion, in a controlled environment the Noctilux gives lovely dreamy results with very shallow DOF. If you need that dreamy look, then it is the better choice for the job. But now that I have a SL to work with heavy and critical focus lenses, I think it would fit better on that one than on my M9.

[grahamc]

19 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I am looking for an older (optical design) 50 lens mainly for use on my new M11Mono.

Canon anyone comment ont he above lenses new 50/1.2 vs 50/1.4 preasph?

From what I see the Noctilux should be softer wide open, but what a comparable f-stops?

Anybody having used both and can tell me a little bit?

I love how the 50/1.4II (pre-pre-asph) looks like, but 1m shortest distance  is a disadvantage. oooh, I just see the Noctilux also seems to have 1m.

Anyways - what do you guys find about the rendering?

Best, Tom

I have the F1 Noc and 50:1.4 v3 'Pre-ASPH' .  I know the Noc isn't the version you are asking about but IMO these vintage Nocs are special effect (beautiful ones) to be used at F1 or F1.2 .  After that it will be softer at comparable F-stops than the Summilux, and the lux also sharper across the field , these vintage Nocs are sharp in the centre but subject should be centrally placed in the frame or risk being softer. 

I love both lenses but practically speaking the Summilux is the one to go for if only one, and has plenty of vintage character - quite Noc-like at 1.4 IMO.     

You could look at a v3 pre-ASPH which focuses to 0.7 not 1m.    

[tom0511]

I thought the 50/1.2 is not that big, but I never had one in my hands.

The comments about price/value are also valid. I am not sure if I want to spread 5-6k for a vintage look which I would use occasionally. But I find it still "sexy". 

I now lean towards a 50/1.4 preasphIII - and see how much smoother look I get at f1.4 compared to my 50 APO.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2024 by tom0511

[evikne]

I've also had the Summilux v3 and Noctilux f/1, but unfortunately not the f/1.2. I once made a comparison of the two lenses I had. From the link below you can download a zip file with pictures (post #43).

I think the Noctilux had a noticeably smoother bokeh at comparable f-stops, almost as if the aperture was a little larger. As this was mainly a bokeh comparison, I didn't actually test the sharpness, but IIRC, the Noctilux was as least as sharp as the Summilux. Anyway, when I had to sell one of them, I kept the Summilux, because of the size and weight, and because my v3 has 0.7m MFD.

The Noctilux f/1.2 is smaller than the f/1 though, and it certainly has the most "sexy" design of them all, so the choice isn't easy. 😉

 

[tom0511]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb evikne:

I've also had the Summilux v3 and Noctilux f/1, but unfortunately not the f/1.2. I once made a comparison of the two lenses I had. From the link below you can download a zip file with pictures (post #43).

I think the Noctilux had a noticeably smoother bokeh at comparable f-stops, almost as if the aperture was a little larger. As this was mainly a bokeh comparison, I didn't actually test the sharpness, but IIRC, the Noctilux was as least as sharp as the Summilux. Anyway, when I had to sell one of them, I kept the Summilux, because of the size and weight, and because my v3 has 0.7m MFD.

The Noctilux f/1.2 is smaller than the f/1 though, and it certainly has the most "sexy" design of them all, so the choice isn't easy. 😉

 

thank you , very interesting. I think the 0.7m is a factor for some type of photography. For me it would be clearly an advantage

[JTLeica]

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I had a late version of the Pre ASPH Lux and it’s the one lens I have sold (yeah there’s been a lot) that I truly regret. It was my first Leica lens, stunning character at 1.4 to 2.0 and then became very sharp across the frame at smaller apertures.

Find a good condition one and look after it and you’ll never lose a penny, same can’t be said for the new 1.2 noct, probably?

I miss that lens and will buy another one day.

🥹

Edited February 21, 2024 by JTLeica

[evikne]

On 2/20/2024 at 3:18 PM, tom0511 said:

Anyways - what do you guys find about the rendering?

If you haven't already seen it, here is the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH image thread with lots of inspiration:

 

[tom0511]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb evikne:

If you haven't already seen it, here is the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH image thread with lots of inspiration:

 

thank you. Many great images I this thread. I find the rendering very pleasant.

[tom0511]

Thank you all!!!

The vintage "effect" seems certainly stronger with the Noctilux 1.2, but that makes it also maybe more of a "specialty" lens for certain things.

Probably the Summilux pre-asph doesnt allow such a strong effect, but maybe? better to use for all kinds of things.

 

 

[tom0511]

now I only have to decide if I shall get silver or black

My bodies are black.

First world problems.

[evikne]

9 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

now I only have to decide if I shall get silver or black

But did you decide on Summilux or Noctilux? I haven't seen a conclusion yet.

[tom0511]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb evikne:

But did you decide on Summilux or Noctilux? I haven't seen a conclusion yet.

I am strongly leaning towards the Summilux pre asph III, because I believe I could use it for more things, and it still would probably offer me nice image characteristic wide open.

I also looked through the 2 threads of Summilux pre-asph and Noctilux 1.2 images. The Noctilux can produce some very interesting images for sure, but I am afraid a little bit that after some interesting "new toy" time this can become also a bit too much retro.

To me the images of the Noctilux seem to have more this look to put my brain in like the 40s or 50s, and the Summilux pre-asph like the 70s and early 80s, which I have some nice memories (I am born in 1969).

  

[tom0511]

one question: Do I have to expect any focus shift when stopping down with the Summilux pre-asph III? I plan to use the lens mainly  with rangefinder and not EVF.

[evikne]

38 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

one question: Do I have to expect any focus shift when stopping down with the Summilux pre-asph III? I plan to use the lens mainly  with rangefinder and not EVF.

I experienced some focus-shift when I got my Summilux v3, but I hear that others do not. Don't know which is more common. Mine focused perfectly at f/1.4, but not at f/2.8. I sent it in to Wetzlar for 6-bit coding and calibration, and when I got it back, thorough tests showed that it now focused perfectly at f/2.0. This was quite clever, because at f/1.4 the focus shift is barely noticeable, and when stopping down, the increased depth of field will "eat up" the focus shift. I've heard this is a common way of dealing with it, since focus shift can't really be completely removed.

[jaapv]

Must it be a Leica lens? The Nokton 50/1.5 has a very nice vintage look with little focus shift. 

[tom0511]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

Must it be a Leica lens? The Nokton 50/1.5 has a very nice vintage look with little focus shift. 

Which version?

[grahamc]

20 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I am strongly leaning towards the Summilux pre asph III, because I believe I could use it for more things, and it still would probably offer me nice image characteristic wide open.

I also looked through the 2 threads of Summilux pre-asph and Noctilux 1.2 images. The Noctilux can produce some very interesting images for sure, but I am afraid a little bit that after some interesting "new toy" time this can become also a bit too much retro.

To me the images of the Noctilux seem to have more this look to put my brain in like the 40s or 50s, and the Summilux pre-asph like the 70s and early 80s, which I have some nice memories (I am born in 1969).

  

I think you are spot on here .  The vintage Nocs , for me, are not an everyday lens but the Summilux certainly is . You won't find it lacking in character .   I haven't had any focus shift issues on 2 copies so as Ernst @evikne points out correct calibration probably takes care of that . 

Edited February 23, 2024 by grahamc

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[Aryel]

I have both lenses and they are both great but very different. The noctilux is more 'special' wide open and really has its own look. The pre-asph is 'gentle' with a lovely rendering. It really depends what you are after. One thing to note about the noctilux is that it has a very long focus throw. It is really helpful when fully open but can be annoying in other situations. For general use, I'd also go with the summilux (actually, I'd go with a summicron).

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Aryel:

I have both lenses and they are both great but very different. The noctilux is more 'special' wide open and really has its own look. The pre-asph is 'gentle' with a lovely rendering. It really depends what you are after. One thing to note about the noctilux is that it has a very long focus throw. It is really helpful when fully open but can be annoying in other situations. For general use, I'd also go with the summilux (actually, I'd go with a summicron).

Thank you. May I ask how the Summicron pre-asps and Summilux pre-asps would compare in your experience and why you would prefer the Summicron?