New challenger : X100 VI vs Q3 in 35mm crop mode

[JTLeica]

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45 minutes ago, pnwpotter said:

For thirty five years I’ve been shooting with Leica M.

M4, M6, MP, Monochrom, M246 and now M10M.

Tried the Q … five times, and never connected … sold them all. 

Tried the X100V. Dealer loaned me the camera for a trip to Santa Fe. I was impressed. I saw it as a camera I could take with and not have to worry about, a “beat the shit out of” camera, that was waterproof, and fit the way I shoot. 

But I was told to wait, there was a new camera coming. 

Using a Leica shouldn’t be a club for elitist … that’s how Leica gets the stench of snobbery. 

So this is how I view the Fuji, something that I can take anywhere and not worry, lens doesn’t stick out at all so won’t knock into anything. If there was a 40mp Gr it would be a harder decision though

Edited March 2, 2024 by JTLeica

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4 minutes ago, JTLeica said:

To is is how I view the Fuji, something that I can take anywhere and not worry, lens doesn’t stick out at all so won’t knock into anything. If there was a 40mp Gr it would be a harder decision though

I have a Q3 and an iPhone 15 Pro Max. For me the x100 series (and I've tried a few) falls between them both, neither good enough or small enough.

I just couldn't love the x100v, It wasn't nearly as well built as the Q series or iPhone, the lens wasn't wide enough and the UI was really poor. I also didn't like the image quality and felt the film sims, while fun at first, were just a bit cheesy.

I'm glad that you like yours though.

[codocee]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:14 AM, GREG PLAT said:

Hello everybody 

I want to share some thoughts with you and I would like to send me your opinions about me dilemma.

I am professional photographer but since 3-4 years I don’t take photos anymore. 

I only take photos in my vacations and when I visit cities where I do street photography mainly and a few city landscapes.

I sold almost my photographic equipment and I kept only 2 cameras. 

Ricoh GRII and Fujifilm XT5 and some lenses ( 10-24/4 & 35/2 & 56/1,2 & 16-80/4)

 

My project for the next years is to visit cities and countries around the world and taking street photography and some landscape photography and maybe publish some books with these photos.

Street photography is 80-85% of my photos now.

 

Here some key points that will help me to take my final decision.

 

1. I want to take only one camera and one lens. No big cameras, no lenses, no bags anymore. I like to be more minimalist in my philosophy to take photos and in my life generally.

2. I shot 95% Jpeg not RAW. I know the benefits of RAW in editing, dynamic range etc but all cameras has anymore very good jpeg. And it’s ok for me. If a camera has RAW and JPEG I choose this option and keep RAW for the future when I print the books. Then I will edit my final photos for the printing. If the camera has this possibility it’s great. 

3. I like 28mm not 35mm

4. I sold my Canon and Fujis and I have 8.000$ in stock. For my new camera and for my first trips.

 

I read many reviews and I decided to buy one of these 2 cameras for my basic camera. 

Leica Q3 - Never had a Leica

Fuji X100 VI  with 28mm lens adaptor

 

Would you like please to send me your opinion about this dilemma? Which you would prefer from these 4 and why according my key points?

Leica Q3 or Fuji x100VI and invest more in trips? 

 

Thank you 

Greg Plat. 
 

I think if you prefer 28mm and one lens and 8K to play with, a used Q2 would be my choice and a new X100VI for its jpeg’s, without much post work and all around fun.

Q2- mint for 3.5K to 4k usd

Fuji X100VI-New for $1600 usd

Try both and when you’ve decided which to keep, sell the other. You would lose little on each and still have $2500 for vacation.

Ive owned X100s/X100t/X100f and have since sold all three. I’ve also owned Leica Q twice, Leica Q2 once and sold all three.

Sold the Q’s because of lens size and EVF and X100’s because of menus and I couldn’t get a good grip on the camera without added accessories, which started to bloat the camera, for my hands.

Both great cameras but given tighter budget, I stick with my M systems and a Sony for AF and MF lens options.

Good luck however you go but most importantly, go like hell!

 

 

On 2/21/2024 at 9:14 AM, GREG PLAT said:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2024 by codocee
Correction

[FrozenInTime]

11 hours ago, Driften said:

Realize the X100 series isn't weather resistant unless you add a filter adapter and filter to the lens. I think the smallest I was able to do on the X100V was additional 10mm of length added to the lens. 

There is a very low profile solution from NiSi https://nisioptics.co.uk/product/uhd-uv-fuji-x100v/ 

[cookedart]

On 3/2/2024 at 11:51 AM, JTLeica said:

So this is how I view the Fuji, something that I can take anywhere and not worry, lens doesn’t stick out at all so won’t knock into anything. If there was a 40mp Gr it would be a harder decision though

If it matters, despite Fuji's WR claims, it seems like it is less reliable than Leica or Olympus in terms of environmental sealing. 

Some threads I've found while researching:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fujifilm/s/v2Fx6Ot51P

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4657904

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4510958

I realise this is anecdotal evidence, but I have not seen similar anecdotal issues on forums regarding the Leica Q2, Q3, or many of the weather sealed Olympus/OM bodies. 

[liggy]

34 minutes ago, cookedart said:

If it matters, despite Fuji's WR claims, it seems like it is less reliable than Leica or Olympus in terms of environmental sealing. 

Some threads I've found while researching:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fujifilm/s/v2Fx6Ot51P

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4657904

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4510958

I realise this is anecdotal evidence, but I have not seen similar anecdotal issues on forums regarding the Leica Q2, Q3, or many of the weather sealed Olympus/OM bodies. 

So you choose to just throw some random internet postings as some sort of proof without you having a shred of direct experience?   To what end?

 

I'm pretty careful with my cameras. That said I have used the Q2 in the rain as well as my trusty old X100S.  The Fuji even got a shower with red wine during a crazy night in Venice once.  

Fortunately I was able to get it cleaned up  and the dials silky smooth again via 99% isopropyl and dental floss.

Both have been just fine.  

[gotium]

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I find the build quality of the X100VI to be excellent. Superb even. I don’t think the Q3 is any better, and I prefer having the ISO dial with visible numbers like on the Fuji. It feels great in hand, very solid, very metal, very clicky buttons and dials. Lovely. I really like the hybrid viewfinder. So first impressions were very, very good.

It’s hard to compare to the Q3 though. It’s the wrong focal length, the aperture dial turns the wrong way, it’s got a crop sensor, the lens ain’t fast, etc. The menu system is messier. There’s no red dot to cover.

The two big downers I see so far, both of which are deal-breakers for me, are:

1. Eye-detect AF, just like on the X-T5, doesn’t work for me. It identifies and follows the eye, but focuses somewhere else, way off. I can honestly focus better with a 1950’s rangefinder than I can with Fuji’s eye detection.

2. IQ. I don’t think this lens is up to a 40 MP sensor. It’s certainly no match for the Q3, and I’m not a big fan of the Q3’s lens. But at least the Q3 is sharp in the center. The X100VI is blurry even in the middle of the frame and it’s frankly embarrassing at the edges. I can’t bring myself to look at the corners. I’d take a Q3, Sony’s little 40/2.5 or Ricoh’s GRiiix  over this, no question. The bokeh is quite pretty though. 

Edited March 3, 2024 by gotium

[ksrhee]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:36 AM, FrozenInTime said:

The Q3 now seems to be available from stock ; probably 12 months before the X100VI gets to that point.

The Q3 Monochrom cannot be far away; maybe Ricoh's response will be a GRIV line that includes monochrome.

That should be enough fuel to keep the gear debate needlessly going for months 😉 ... better off keeping behind the curve and shooting more film.

Yes, the Q3 is more readily available, but dealers can't seem to keep them in stock, at least in the US.  So, if you are interested in buying it off the shelf, it's still hard to get.  The Q3 monochrome will be announced sometime November 2024 if you follow the previous pattern . . .

Edited March 3, 2024 by ksrhee

[cookedart]

6 hours ago, liggy said:

So you choose to just throw some random internet postings as some sort of proof without you having a shred of direct experience?   To what end?

 

I'm pretty careful with my cameras. That said I have used the Q2 in the rain as well as my trusty old X100S.  The Fuji even got a shower with red wine during a crazy night in Venice once.  

Fortunately I was able to get it cleaned up  and the dials silky smooth again via 99% isopropyl and dental floss.

Both have been just fine.  

I've used all of the cameras I've mentioned, if it matters (several models of the x100 series, and the Q series). The point being, that sometimes, you cannot be careful with a camera and also get a shot. But I have noticed that Fuji seems to have more anecdotal issues with their weather sealing than Olympus or Leica. I can find far more if you like, but it's not difficult to find. Maybe in your case the weather sealing has been fine, but I've also posted concrete evidence to the opposite. If you choose to ignore that evidence, that's on you.

[liggy]

1 hour ago, cookedart said:

I've used all of the cameras I've mentioned, if it matters (several models of the x100 series, and the Q series). The point being, that sometimes, you cannot be careful with a camera and also get a shot. But I have noticed that Fuji seems to have more anecdotal issues with their weather sealing than Olympus or Leica. I can find far more if you like, but it's not difficult to find. Maybe in your case the weather sealing has been fine, but I've also posted concrete evidence to the opposite. If you choose to ignore that evidence, that's on you.

Thanks, no need.  I can Google.   

Having the Q2 and still owning the X100S I readily concede that the build of the Leica feels more robust but feel and a Google search of some random threads that aren’t exactly controlled, objective studies are hardly what I personally consider to be concrete evidence. 

If we were to go strictly by internet lore the original Q would be rendered useless by now if you hadn't taped up the mic openings.   😀
 

Happy Shooting!

Edited March 4, 2024 by liggy

[JTLeica]

9 hours ago, gotium said:

I find the build quality of the X100VI to be excellent. Superb even. I don’t think the Q3 is any better, and I prefer having the ISO dial with visible numbers like on the Fuji. It feels great in hand, very solid, very metal, very clicky buttons and dials. Lovely. I really like the hybrid viewfinder. So first impressions were very, very good.

It’s hard to compare to the Q3 though. It’s the wrong focal length, the aperture dial turns the wrong way, it’s got a crop sensor, the lens ain’t fast, etc. The menu system is messier. There’s no red dot to cover.

The two big downers I see so far, both of which are deal-breakers for me, are:

1. Eye-detect AF, just like on the X-T5, doesn’t work for me. It identifies and follows the eye, but focuses somewhere else, way off. I can honestly focus better with a 1950’s rangefinder than I can with Fuji’s eye detection.

2. IQ. I don’t think this lens is up to a 40 MP sensor. It’s certainly no match for the Q3, and I’m not a big fan of the Q3’s lens. But at least the Q3 is sharp in the center. The X100VI is blurry even in the middle of the frame and it’s frankly embarrassing at the edges. I can’t bring myself to look at the corners. I’d take a Q3, Sony’s little 40/2.5 or Ricoh’s GRiiix  over this, no question. The bokeh is quite pretty though. 

I disagree with the build quality (unless the VI is different to the F / T U that I owned), the Q is better built, the dials and controls, the aperture ring, the tolerances, everything feels better to me. Fuji was not bad at all, but the Q to me is noticeably better.

Also, I am of the mindset that 'build quality' / engineering quality and 'will this camera survive a drop, are two different things, for what its worth

Interesting to hear what you thin of the sensor vs lens on the VI? Do you have the VI already then? Some full res samples would be great. I look at some on the DPR site, some are razor sharp and others are not, some are so unsharp I assumed this was focus error, as it other images were totally fine.

Edited March 4, 2024 by JTLeica

[Chris W]

3 hours ago, liggy said:

 

If we were to go strictly by internet lore the original Q would be rendered useless by now if you hadn't taped up the mic openings.   😀

I taped mine over the minute I got the camera and it took me all of one minute to do so.

I'm shocked people see a £1700 camera (X100VI) as less precious, borderline disposable.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, JTLeica said:

'will this camera survive a drop, are two different things, for what its worth

Even if you manage to break a X100VI, you could buy a second copy and it’d still be half the price of a Q3

[GREG PLAT]

On 3/1/2024 at 11:25 AM, JTLeica said:

Greg - I think you should just buy the Q3, tinker with the JPG settings until you are happy (I can look over the weekend to see whats adjustable for you) and just enjoy it... The worst thing to do would be not buy it, then spend forever wondering about, and talking about buying it. 

The Q3 will give you a 28mm FF 60MP shot, a 40MP 35mm APSC image, and a roughly 20+MP 50mm image... higher res than you 16MP Ricoh that you are happy with... The lens is a beast too, and will take enlargement and 'upscaling' just fine.

Just do it, sir, that is an order.

But I will have a play with the JPG output and see if I can get anything suitable, do you just shoot black and white in JPG straight from the camera, or convert?

Do you have some news about this?

(I can look over the weekend to see whats adjustable for you)

 

[Mr Perceptive]

59 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Even if you manage to break a X100VI, you could buy a second copy and it’d still be half the price of a Q3

It actually takes a lot to break an X100 series camera, my F was in my hand when I tripped in Birmingham, hit the pavement very hard! It was also in my hand when I fell over in Dinorwig Quarry breaking my ankle, the camera hit slate very hard enough to completely distort the lens hood, It was a well battered example, with significant marks/scratches to baseplatre and top plate. It worked just fine. Just hope I don't roadtest the Q3 in teh same way!

[cookedart]

9 hours ago, liggy said:

Thanks, no need.  I can Google.   

Having the Q2 and still owning the X100S I readily concede that the build of the Leica feels more robust but feel and a Google search of some random threads that aren’t exactly controlled, objective studies are hardly what I personally consider to be concrete evidence. 

If we were to go strictly by internet lore the original Q would be rendered useless by now if you hadn't taped up the mic openings.   😀
 

Happy Shooting!

The problem is, Fuji itself gives no objective guidance as to the strength of their weather resistance. It does not IP rate their gear, so it's difficult to give objective comparisons, without doing in depth testing in controlled situations yourself (such as creating a dust/water rig that mimics the scale of the IP ratings).

Thus, one has to go to anecdotal evidence to see how well the gear is holding up for other people's use cases. Despite numerous searches, Leica and Olympus/OM Systems IP rated gear has few to no posted threads on all major photograph hubs about them failing due to weather related incidents. Contrasted to Fuji gear, which has numerous threads about specific conditions where it does. Like you said, you can google, so if you choose to do so it's not hard to come across the many threads about Fuji gear's weather resistance not being robust. 

To me, that is enough to not fully trust Fuji gear itself - the combo of Fuji not testing their own gear against a standard IP rating, and the anecdotal evidence suggesting that their cameras can fail under specific conditions.

[ksrhee]

15 hours ago, gotium said:

I find the build quality of the X100VI to be excellent. Superb even. I don’t think the Q3 is any better,

I hate to disagree, but the Q3 is much better built.  It's like comparing a Humvee with a tank.  The Q3 feels like a tank in my hand whereas the X100 feels like a Humvee.  It is still well-built and solid, but we are comparing them nevertheless.  

[liggy]

2 hours ago, cookedart said:

The problem is, Fuji itself gives no objective guidance as to the strength of their weather resistance. It does not IP rate their gear, so it's difficult to give objective comparisons, without doing in depth testing in controlled situations yourself (such as creating a dust/water rig that mimics the scale of the IP ratings).

Thus, one has to go to anecdotal evidence to see how well the gear is holding up for other people's use cases. Despite numerous searches, Leica and Olympus/OM Systems IP rated gear has few to no posted threads on all major photograph hubs about them failing due to weather related incidents. Contrasted to Fuji gear, which has numerous threads about specific conditions where it does. Like you said, you can google, so if you choose to do so it's not hard to come across the many threads about Fuji gear's weather resistance not being robust. 

To me, that is enough to not fully trust Fuji gear itself - the combo of Fuji not testing their own gear against a standard IP rating, and the anecdotal evidence suggesting that their cameras can fail under specific conditions.

Agree with you on the IP rating - that is an objective bit of proof.  
Personally if I feel the need to shoot in the rain I bring my Olympus which has a slightly better IP rating than my Q2. 

In an absulute downpour the only thing I really trust is my iPhone which has an IP68 rating.  
 

Bottom line for me is that I trust the Fuji and Leica the same and haven’t suffered for it.  Maybe I just have been lucky.  

Edited March 4, 2024 by liggy

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[zachroeder]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:44 PM, gotium said:

I find the build quality of the X100VI to be excellent. Superb even. I don’t think the Q3 is any better, and I prefer having the ISO dial with visible numbers like on the Fuji. It feels great in hand, very solid, very metal, very clicky buttons and dials. Lovely. I really like the hybrid viewfinder. So first impressions were very, very good.

It’s hard to compare to the Q3 though. It’s the wrong focal length, the aperture dial turns the wrong way, it’s got a crop sensor, the lens ain’t fast, etc. The menu system is messier. There’s no red dot to cover.

The two big downers I see so far, both of which are deal-breakers for me, are:

1. Eye-detect AF, just like on the X-T5, doesn’t work for me. It identifies and follows the eye, but focuses somewhere else, way off. I can honestly focus better with a 1950’s rangefinder than I can with Fuji’s eye detection.

2. IQ. I don’t think this lens is up to a 40 MP sensor. It’s certainly no match for the Q3, and I’m not a big fan of the Q3’s lens. But at least the Q3 is sharp in the center. The X100VI is blurry even in the middle of the frame and it’s frankly embarrassing at the edges. I can’t bring myself to look at the corners. I’d take a Q3, Sony’s little 40/2.5 or Ricoh’s GRiiix  over this, no question. The bokeh is quite pretty though. 

Thank you so much for this info. I will likely cancel my X100VI order . How’s the AF speed on the X100VI with eye detect off compared to the Q3? I occasionally still use the X100F, and the AF is my least favorite thing about it. Fuji claims software AF improvements for the X100VI, but I’m questioning that it matters since the lens motor is still the same.

I shoot with an M10-R primarily and also a Canon R5 when I need AF (fast kids). The R5’s AF feels almost magical to me. 

I’m really hoping to find a smallish camera to replace my X100F with at least decent IQ and super fast AF. I guess that’s probably the Q2/Q3 or maybe a Sony. 

[gotium]

1 hour ago, zachroeder said:

Thank you so much for this info. I will likely cancel my X100VI order . How’s the AF speed on the X100VI with eye detect off compared to the Q3? I occasionally still use the X100F, and the AF is my least favorite thing about it. Fuji claims software AF improvements for the X100VI, but I’m questioning that it matters since the lens motor is still the same.

I shoot with an M10-R primarily and also a Canon R5 when I need AF (fast kids). The R5’s AF feels almost magical to me. 

I’m really hoping to find a smallish camera to replace my X100F with at least decent IQ and super fast AF. I guess that’s probably the Q2/Q3 or maybe a Sony. 

I find the Q3 AF significantly faster even for non-eye-detect. For eye-detect the Q3 is quite good, I think the Fuji is not really useable, at least for me. The Sony a7cR is just incredibly good with eye-detect. 

Edited March 6, 2024 by gotium