MA or MP?

[j.scooter]

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MA or MP?  I say neither.

I see the the M5 is missing from your camera line up.

You should give it a try.  

There is a saying (not really, just made it up)

Once you go M5 you don't go back... 

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[IkarusJohn]

Having digital Leicas, there’s a very special pleasure in picking upt my M-A.  No meter to think about, and a clear viewfinder.  Lovely.

[ktmrider2]

I owned and used an M5 for about a year.  It came from Sherry and was perfect.  My first Leica was actually a Leica CL acquired in 1975 for less than half the price of a M5.  I forgot to list it in my first post so my mistake.  A friend wanted to try a Leica and I offered to sell him an M2 or M5 and he picked the M5.  If you look at the previous thread (M6 Classic or M7 by Roby) you can see I recommended the M5 as an alternative to the M6.  I could very easily make the argument that the M5 is still the most advanced Leica film camera this side of the M7.  Also said in another thread that it had the best rewind with the clutch on the bottom rewind crank.

In meterless cameras, my favorite is the M2 due to the single frame lines in the viewfinder.  But I like the modern film loading/rewind of the M4 and later (granted the M5 has it) and I prefer the classic size film body.  Nothing wrong with the M5 and I would purchase it before an M6 or M6TTL.  

My mint M4 has the same characteristics as an MA.  It is a mint 50th anniversary black chrome model and so similar to a black chrome MA, I am hesitating and may decide to go with an MP so one has a meter and one not.  However, the MP is really just a fancy M6.  I had an M6TTL when the MP first appeared in 2003 and I remember thinking it was Leica's appeal to nostalgia and really did not offer anything my M6 did not have.  And that is still true for both the MP (M6 reincarnated) and MA (M2/M4/M4-2/M4-P reincarnated).

Edited February 10, 2024 by ktmrider2

[Rollei35]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:42 PM, j.scooter said:

MA or MP?  I say neither.

I see the the M5 is missing from your camera line up.

You should give it a try.  

There is a saying (not really, just made it up)

Once you go M5 you don't go back... 

Enlighten me please what M5 is so good that M-A or MP cannot do?

Oh I remember, M5 was universally acknowledged as the ugliest Leica M film camera. To that end, M-A and MP cannot compete.

Edited February 12, 2024 by Rollei35

[Anbaric]

6 minutes ago, Rollei35 said:

Enlighten me please what M5 is so good that M-A or MP cannot do?

You can dangle it vertically from the extra stap lug.

[j.scooter]

2 hours ago, Rollei35 said:

Enlighten me please what M5 is so good that M-A or MP cannot do?

Oh I remember, M5 was universally acknowledged as the ugliest Leica M film camera. To that end, M-A and MP cannot compete.

My post was made in jest.  I don't think that someone debating an MA or MP would consider a M5

But I will say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I find the M5 quite nice to look at and ergonomically great to use.

What does the M5 have that the MA/MP don't:

-The M5 has a built in spot meter which neither the MA or MP have 

- The strap lugs mentioned above

- Overhanging shutter speed dial which enables changing settings while having the camera to your eye

- M5 doesn't have any flashing lights in the viewfinder

#onceyougoM5youdon't go back 

[ktmrider2]

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In addition, the M5 had shutter speeds shown in the viewfinder years before the M7 showed up, it showed you the exact metering area with the 50mm lens (what other Leica has ever done that), the rewind knob had a clutch which prevented it spinning if film was under tension and rewind knob was released.  Leica spent ten years designing the M5 before it was released and thought long and hard on which features to design into the camera.

It also had the flare free viewfinder which all Leicas had before the M4-P and was hand assembled in Germany like the classic M3/2/4.  It did not sell because the Leica CL could be had for half the price, it was not the shape of the classic film cameras, and its main rivals were the Nikon F (which had the professional market) and the Canon F1.

[ktmrider2]

I almost purchased a black MA a few days ago planning on having the store hold it for a couple weeks until I can pick it up 23 Feb.  Since I am in the Philippines and credit card is US, it did not go through and now I am glad that it did not.  I am still undecided and think I want to look at the actual body (film pressure plate) before purchase.  And still undecided about MP (black paint) or MA (black chrome).  I have been thinking M10-R just because I have a beautiful M4 already.  

I am not very excited about a new M3 as an anniversary special but I would be all over a new M2.  

[colonel]

The issue on metering is how experienced and comfortable you are. 

I use an AstrHori light meter for my unmetered cameras, which is tiny and fits into the hotshoe. Many times I can guess the settings now. Usually I take a meter reading then I can adjust in my mind when I change aperture or speed how the other should go.

The other issue is ambient vs directional. You might point you meter at the subject but is it being influenced by light from part of the scene you don't want to measure for ?. If you take a picture of people walking down a tunnel to you, do you want the people to be at the mid light level, meaning the end of the tunnel is bright white, or the end of the tunnel and the people in silhouette or do you want a grey balance. Sometimes having an external meter is easier, as you can point it and take different readings. I find this more difficult when having to peer through the viewfinder.

For most people those having a built in light meter is more convenient.

you pays you money and takes your choice !

Edited February 15, 2024 by colonel

[ktmrider2]

Ordered chrome M10-R and ten minutes after order, I sent the camera store and email requesting that it be switched to a black chrome MA.  Even with film being somewhat expensive, I can shoot a lot of film for the price of an M10-R.  I have a Fuji X-T5 and Ricoh GR3 for digital.  I paid $4150 for the MA in Hong Kong while they are $5500 in the US.

I don't plan on selling the black chrome anniversary M4.  I have five M mount lenses and now I need a small 50 for travel for the MA.  My present 50f1.2 is huge and I am thinking the 50f2.8 Elmar Version 2  collapsible in black.  Have read good things about the lens and it weighs only 6 ounces.  

Would like to hear comments on the 50 Elmar.  Other possibilities are Zeiss 50's or the Voightlander 50 APO.  The APO may not be necessary for film and I am liking the 50f1.5 Sonnar.  Comments on all of the above are sought.

[tom0511]

I have used A-Mode ever since my M6-Rd1-M8-M9-M10-M10 and M11. Also got a MP few years ago.

For me shooting with an M should be spontaneous and in camera metering helps me.

I can not imagine metering light with a cell phone to be able to set exposure on a manual film camera.

Yes, there are light meters - and if you have time or shoot subjects where you have time / light doesn't change quickly ok.

For me exposure metering in camera helps.

[ktmrider2]

I have done it both ways owning M5, M6 and M6ttl.  I have also shot with all the other non metered M film cameras.  Honestly, the meter has both advantages and disadvantages.  My favorite Leica is the M2 because of the clean finder with single frame lines.  I honestly think the M5 has the best meter ever put in a camera but the moving needle is not exactly state of the art.  On my state of the art digital (Fuji X-T5), I often shoot full auto just glancing at the exposure information to make sure shutter speed is at a certain minimum and the lens is not wide open.  It is fast and the metering works well.  But I also enjoy an incident meter and my M4, doing it the way I did about 1966 using a 4x5 Speed Graflex.  

I have a week to decide and I am still debating between the MA and MP.  And if you look at the post above I am even thinking about a Leica M10R.  Technology does have advantages.  Let's face it, if Oscar Barnack had not had asthma we might all still be using view cameras on tripods.  We forget how revolutionary the 35 mm film technology was in the early 20th century.

I will report back on which camera I ended up with.  Thanks for making this thread a lively discussion!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

[Emtsoh]

17 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I have done it both ways owning M5, M6 and M6ttl.  I have also shot with all the other non metered M film cameras.  Honestly, the meter has both advantages and disadvantages.  My favorite Leica is the M2 because of the clean finder with single frame lines.  I honestly think the M5 has the best meter ever put in a camera but the moving needle is not exactly state of the art.  On my state of the art digital (Fuji X-T5), I often shoot full auto just glancing at the exposure information to make sure shutter speed is at a certain minimum and the lens is not wide open.  It is fast and the metering works well.  But I also enjoy an incident meter and my M4, doing it the way I did about 1966 using a 4x5 Speed Graflex.  

I have a week to decide and I am still debating between the MA and MP.  And if you look at the post above I am even thinking about a Leica M10R.  Technology does have advantages.  Let's face it, if Oscar Barnack had not had asthma we might all still be using view cameras on tripods.  We forget how revolutionary the 35 mm film technology was in the early 20th century.

I will report back on which camera I ended up with.  Thanks for making this thread a lively discussion!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Up to you in the end.

Years ago, I bought one M-A and after that all digital stuff (plus one film MP BP) were gone.

That particular camera has taught me more than anything else (at least so far, meaning the last 20 years enjoying the art of making images. 
 

Have fun with your choice and enjoy

[ktmrider2]

I am still on the fence about which model.  I even thought about a M10R but realized I have a great digital system already and got rid of my digital M's about two years ago.  I  do not want another.  

I really like the M2 and M4 and have owned all the others except a M7.  I have almost eliminated the black paint MP from the candidates as the entire brassing patina is not that attractive to me.  My M4 is black chrome and still looks mint.  The black MA is the sexiest Leica I have ever seen.  The silver chrome has also stood the test of time as 60 plus year old M3's and M2's demonstrate.

Have told the store I want to examine both the MA and MP in person.  I will make my decision in their store on Friday, in six days.  The top candidate is a black chrome MA but I have never actually had one or an MP in my hands.  I do not think they will be much different from every other Leica I have used but I could be wrong.  Hopefully the tactile experience will help me make a decision.

Anyone here have experience with the Zeiss 35's?  I already have a couple 35's and the Zeiss 35f2.8 C Biogon lives on my M4.  I am wondering how its performance compares to the 35f2 Zeiss.

[LuxLight]

Other than the light meter and look & feel of the finish, the MP will brass easier than the M-A, if that matters. 

[ktmrider2]

I still have not made a decision.  In fact, I have just contacted the dealer and told him I would make a decision in his store in three days depending on his stock.  I must decide between digital and film.  If digital, I can get a new M10R for $6300 new.  If film I am leaning toward a MA and prefer the black chrome but the silver sure reminds me of the classic M2 and M4 cameras I love.  I go back and forth on the need for a meter and the bracing of the MP.

I will post my choice when I make it.  Am going around the world this fall and there is a romance about doing it with film but technology sure makes it easier.  Decisions . . .decisions!

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I still have not made a decision.  In fact, I have just contacted the dealer and told him I would make a decision in his store in three days depending on his stock.  I must decide between digital and film.  If digital, I can get a new M10R for $6300 new.  If film I am leaning toward a MA and prefer the black chrome but the silver sure reminds me of the classic M2 and M4 cameras I love.  I go back and forth on the need for a meter and the bracing of the MP.

I will post my choice when I make it.  Am going around the world this fall and there is a romance about doing it with film but technology sure makes it easier.  Decisions . . .decisions!

Why put this pressure on yourself? You already have a Leica film camera, arguably one of the best ever made, an M4 hand-built by the traditional fit and adjust method like the M2 and M3 were. If they made one this way today, it would cost quite a bit more than the M-A does, and you even have a special edition in black. You could get an MP for the meter, but you use a hand meter anyway. Only the M10 offers you something really different, but you don't seemed convinced about getting a digital Leica. I would at least hold off on purchasing until I'd made the fundamental choice between film and digital. The rest is just cosmetics.

 

And not just any M4, but the black anniversary model.

[a.noctilux]

I agree with Anbaric, just enjoy the "best" film M (in my view) money can buy M4 Anniversary.

Mine is so smooth in use that it's one of two M4 I keep (just in case), the other one is BP M4.

Silver M4s workhorses all sold many years ago.

As we are different, I do use for film two (why two ? tough question not answerable) M-A just that I can with new M to "replace" older Ms.

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Hallo,

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[LuxLight]

Adding to the above, I believe the M4 has intermediate shutter speeds, like other mechanical M bodies M5 and older. Whereas the M-A and MP are stepped only. 

[burchyk]

If I had a black chrome M4 and wanted to buy another film M to compliment it I think a silver MP would cover more bases.