24mm Elmar on digital bodies (M, SL and Panasonic S)

[Stuart Richardson]

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Hello all. I was wondering if people could speak to the performance of the 24mm Elmar on digital bodies. I have had a 25mm Biogon for almost 20 years. I bought it shortly after it came out when I was living in Japan. I love the lens for its size and ergonomics, and overall it is a fantastic performer on film. On center, it is still superb on digital, but unfortunately the symmetrical design which makes it so good on film means that the edge performance is not great on digital bodies. There is noticeably characteristic softening in the edges that comes from angled light passing through too much cover glass. I see this on the M10M I am using, as well as on the L mount bodies. Of course, it is usable on the M10M, kind of ok if stopped down to f8 or f11 on the SL2, and essentially unusable on the S1. I know that the 24mm Elmar is a design that dates to the digital period, so I imagine it is better suited to the digital sensors, but I have not been able to find much details about how it fares on digital bodies. In my experience wider is worse, but it is not that simple...for example, the 18mm Zeiss is better than the 25mm Biogon, and my 28mm Elmarit VIII was better than the 28mm Summicron VI, for example. In general, there is not that much on this lens, which I guess is indicative of the fact that it was not super popular and discontinued after about ten years. I understand that 21mm is more popular, but I still like the angle of view...24, 35, 50 is a good spread for me.

I was curious if the more nit-picky among you could speak to its characteristics. I know that it will be usable, the question for me is more whether it is more or less evenly sharp across the entire frame by f4 or 5.6. MTF indicates that it should be, but that is not based on an actual sensor. I tried a friend's 21mm 3.4 Super Elmar M on my SL2 once, and it was good on one side, but it was a decentered copy so the other side was quite bad and it was therefore kind of hard to judge what a proper copy would be like. Basically, I would love if I can use it fully on both the SL2 and M10M. The plan is to sell the 25mm Biogon and get a used copy.

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[jankap]

Cancel the cover glass, would be my opinion. A camera is something to be used. Perhaps you hide your Leica equipment in the cupboard.

Have you ever had problems, that someone shoots an arrow into the front lens of your camera?

Sorry, but if I read cover glass, my hairs stand upright.

[robsonj]

29 minutes ago, jankap said:

Cancel the cover glass, would be my opinion. A camera is something to be used. Perhaps you hide your Leica equipment in the cupboard.

Have you ever had problems, that someone shoots an arrow into the front lens of your camera?

Sorry, but if I read cover glass, my hairs stand upright.

I think by cover glass, he means the cover glass on the sensor 

[Stuart Richardson]

40 minutes ago, jankap said:

Cancel the cover glass, would be my opinion. A camera is something to be used. Perhaps you hide your Leica equipment in the cupboard.

Have you ever had problems, that someone shoots an arrow into the front lens of your camera?

Sorry, but if I read cover glass, my hairs stand upright.

I don't hide my Leica equipment in a cupboard. I use it all the time professionally and for large exhibition prints. If you find yourself in Reykjavik before the end of April you are welcome to have a look...I have a show up at the Museum of Photography. The largest print from a Leica is 140x170cm, though that is from the S006. I am asking these questions because they actually matter to me, not because I am a pedant. The cover glass I am referring to is that on the sensor, the thickness of which can impact the image quality whenever light rays impact it at a steep angle. The M partially compensates for this by using offset microlenses, but also uses a particularly thin cover glass. The SL2 has a bit less compensation, so these lenses are a bit worse on the SL2 than on the M, but it tends to not be too much of a difference. The Panasonic for example has no microlenses and a thick sensor, so the edges are heavily impacted. This is the question I am trying to get a feel for...how badly is the 24mm impacted, if at all.

Edited January 25, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[costa43]

Hi Stuart,

I use the 24mm Elmar on an m10r and m8 and it’s faultless for me. High contrast, even sharpness across the frame from wide open. I’ve not tested this but that’s the impression I have from using it regularly. Happy to send you some dng samples if you feel it would help. Some example pics below. The portrait of my daughter holding the ice is with the m8, the other two with the m10r.

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Edited January 25, 2024 by costa43

[costa43]

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Robert Blanko]

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I can second costa43‘s opinion. It is an excellent lens on my M10R. The corner sharpness is even better than with the 28 Elmarit.

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you guys, that is very helpful to hear!

[RexGig0]

Lloyd Chambers’ paid-subscription site has a landscape image, shot with the Elmar-M 24mm ASPH on an SL2. He has also posted test images shot with an M10 Monochrom and an M11. His standards are quite high, and he is a very harsh critic, so, it is notable that his opinion is generally favorable. Notably, however, he indicates that native L-mount lenses may perform better, though with a significant weight penalty. (He climbs some very steep terrain to reach his landscape locations.)

I maintain a subscription to Lloyd Chambers’ Leica pages, and have subscribed to his Zeiss pages, for at least one year. He generally favors well-corrected, “modern” lenses, so, I do not necessarily follow his recommendations, but, when considering lenses that cost so very much, this is a valuable resource.

https://diglloyd.com/idx-leica.html

 

 

[Olaf_ZG]

I have both, but didn’t use the Zeiss since I received the Elmar one day later. You can borrow mine *) if you want and see for yourself. I do enjoy it cause it is a tad smaller than the biogon and has a great lenshood.

*) postage from Croatia to Iceland and back will be on you, my offer is serious.

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you both! Olaf that is an incredibly kind offer, thank you! I will have to pass, however, as Icelandic customs will want their 24% and even on a temporary import it takes months to get refunded but I really appreciate it. But I have seen some of Costa's DNG's and the lens looks very good indeed, so I think it will do well for me. I found one for a pretty good price, and I think it is worth it for me to just take the leap. I don't have any modern M mount lenses wider than 35mm other than the Biogon, which while spectacular on film, just doesn't cut it for me on the digital bodies. Speed is not important to me, so the compact, easy to handle form of the lens is really appealing. I already have the 25mm Biogon external VF, so I am sure that will work well when I need more accurate framing. If not live view will do the trick.

Edited January 25, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[tom0511]

My first UWA was a 21 Elmarit Asph in film times. Later I used a WATE, I also tested a 21/1.4 but the lens I was most happy was the 21/3.4. It has better corner performance then the Wate I tested and better than the 21/2.8 and 1.4.

I haven't used the 24 Elmarit though. Once had a 24/1.4 which I liked quite a bit, but I prefer 21 and 28 over 24mm.

 

 

[jankap]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Stuart Richardson:

The cover glass I am referring to is that on the sensor, the thickness of which can impact the image quality whenever light rays impact it at a steep angle. The M partially compensates for this by using offset microlenses, but also uses a particularly thin cover glass. The SL2 has a bit less compensation, so these lenses are a bit worse on the SL2 than on the M, but it tends to not be too much of a difference. The Panasonic for example has no microlenses and a thick sensor, so the edges are heavily impacted. This is the question I am trying to get a feel for...how badly is the 24mm impacted, if at all.

Sorry, I misunderstood the term. The Leica sensor corrects for vignetting only, I think. But glass also distorts a bit. My Sigma fp is said to have a thin cover glass.

I made pictures from birds on our terrace last week. At an angle of 30 degrees through the double pane window (500mm Telyt MR). I did not succeed to make clean pictures with PS. Time-consuming, even for a pensioner.

[gordec]

I’m trying to decide between 24 Elmar or 24 Elmarit ASPH. I mostly care about the microcontrast. Is it that significant? I have a M10R too. It’s to complete my kit of 35 Lux FLE and CV90 2.5. I prefer 24mm more than 21mm as it is more versatile. I think for landscape, 24mm should be enough for most. 

[Malabito]

I have the 24mm Elmer f3.8, is an absolutely beautiful lens on the m10, sharp corner to corner, beautiful colors, balances incredibly well... I don't know how it could be better.

 

Sadly is not the same on the sl2s. It just feels dull and sometimes it has some slight color casts, I wouldn't recommend it on a mirrorless.  If you have the sl2 I would rather go for the Panasonic 24mm f1.8. If it's for a digital m, you can't go wrong with it.

Here are some images on the m240 and m10:

https://www.ilukewitsch.com/Photo-Equipment-For-Sale/Leica-24mm-Elmar-38-/n-6Vc6G9

 

 

 

[gordec]

6 hours ago, Malabito said:

I have the 24mm Elmer f3.8, is an absolutely beautiful lens on the m10, sharp corner to corner, beautiful colors, balances incredibly well... I don't know how it could be better.

 

Sadly is not the same on the sl2s. It just feels dull and sometimes it has some slight color casts, I wouldn't recommend it on a mirrorless.  If you have the sl2 I would rather go for the Panasonic 24mm f1.8. If it's for a digital m, you can't go wrong with it.

Here are some images on the m240 and m10:

https://www.ilukewitsch.com/Photo-Equipment-For-Sale/Leica-24mm-Elmar-38-/n-6Vc6G9

 

 

 

Love those pictures. They render like Q2. Lots of pop and micro contrast even though it's a slow lens. How much post processing did you do?

[Malabito]

3 hours ago, gordec said:

Love those pictures. They render like Q2. Lots of pop and micro contrast even though it's a slow lens. How much post processing did you do?

Thanks! Yes, I am actually amazed how much pop this lens has specially considering the slow aperture. I am always surprised.

Regarding the editing, I always edit all my images. But is nothing extreme, the magic is from the lens, not lightroom

Sadly when mounted on the sl2s, it looses all that magic.

For the sl2s I am using the Panasonic 24mm, and yes it's not as good as the Elmar on the m, but its way better than the Elmar on the sl. The pana has great colors,  focuses really fast, weights nothing, and it's small for an lmount lens...its also weather sealed. This is an album with pana 24mm images mounted on the sl2s.

https://www.ilukewitsch.com/Photo-Equipment-For-Sale/Panasonic-24mm-F18/n-CWLRMJ

 

[robsonj]

5 hours ago, Malabito said:

Thanks! Yes, I am actually amazed how much pop this lens has specially considering the slow aperture. I am always surprised.

Regarding the editing, I always edit all my images. But is nothing extreme, the magic is from the lens, not lightroom

Sadly when mounted on the sl2s, it looses all that magic.

For the sl2s I am using the Panasonic 24mm, and yes it's not as good as the Elmar on the m, but its way better than the Elmar on the sl. The pana has great colors,  focuses really fast, weights nothing, and it's small for an lmount lens...its also weather sealed. This is an album with pana 24mm images mounted on the sl2s.

https://www.ilukewitsch.com/Photo-Equipment-For-Sale/Panasonic-24mm-F18/n-CWLRMJ

 

Some really exceptional photography on your website!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Malabito]

22 hours ago, robsonj said:

Some really exceptional photography on your website!

thanks for the kind comments!