Lens type detection

[lexffm]

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Hello, I tried adding an older M lens yesterday. The operating instructions say the following:

USING A LEICA M LENS WITHOUT 6-BIT CODING

When using a Leica M lens without 6-bit coding The lens type must be entered manually. ▸ Select lens type detection in the main menu ▸ Manually select M ▸ Select the attached lens from the list • Lenses come with focal length, aperture and item number listed.

 

It worked well so far with my previous lenses without code. Now I wanted to add a Summicron 1:2 / 50 (11818R). That wasn't on the list. I have now taken the Summicron 1:2 / 50 (11817), which is the newer one despite the smaller number. Why is the list not complete? Can anyone say this, is there a reason for this?

Thank you in advance

Edited January 21, 2024 by lexffm

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[jaapv]

These lenses are recognized. Other lenses can be used without recognition or by entering a similar lens. 
 

https://lavidaleica.com/content/leica-lens-codes

[UliWer]

1 hour ago, lexffm said:

Why is the list not complete? Can anyone say this, is there a reason for this?

They choose to restrict the list for manual recognition to lenses which were made since 1970; there are even some exceptions like the 2. version of the 35mm Summicron which was made after 1970 and is not in the list. The rigid Summicron (11818) belongs to the pre-1970 category, as it was produced only until 1969. The coding provides a special profile to correct vignetting and color shift. If a certain lens doesn‘t need a profile which differs from a later one it‘s  just sparsity to omit it. 

[lct]

AFAIK there are no 6-bit codes nor lens profiles for Summicron 50/2 v1 or v2 that cannot be recognized as such by the M11. V3 has no 6-bit code either but it has a specific lens profile under 11817 product number. V4 and v5 have a different lens profile (11819/11825/11826/11816) but i don't know if it brings different vigetting or color corrections. I guess i would choose 11817 for v1 or v2, as the OP did, but i have no experience with these lenses.

Edited January 21, 2024 by lct

[MattMaber]

Its a real shame you cant manually enter lenses yourself like you can on fuji cameras - oh well.

[jaapv]

That is because the camera won’t have a profile. Easy enough to edit EXIF in your computer, though. 

[lct]

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Last time i tried (Fuji X-E2) i could only enter the focal length of M lenses. Is there anything new since then?

[MattMaber]

19 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is because the camera won’t have a profile. Easy enough to edit EXIF in your computer, though. 

I do that with EXIF command line stuff and Apple Shortcut scripts - but it'd be nice just to have the name at easy access (regardless of profiles).

tricky to remember the lens later and if if I didnt change it every time, theres definitely occasions its useful and making the list editable feels like it should be trivial.

Let me add/edit some and set some favs

14 hours ago, lct said:

Last time i tried (Fuji X-E2) i could only enter the focal length of M lenses. Is there anything new since then?

OK so I mis-remembered it. Still, being able to have merely the focal length, or just a custom name would be great.

It does feel very odd that they supply this long list but its set in stone.

 

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[jaapv]

If it is only about the focal length just pick any lens of the same focal lens from the list.

[adan]

On 1/21/2024 at 3:01 AM, UliWer said:

They choose to restrict the list for manual recognition to lenses which were made since 1970; there are even some exceptions like the 2. version of the 35mm Summicron which was made after 1970 and is not in the list.

Actually, it is sort of the other way around. When Leica introduced the whole 6-bit regime in 2006 (M8), what they said they would do - with physical, mechanical 6-bit-coded lens-mount exchanges - was support lenses one (1) design-generation old. 1980 or later.

Which also meant lenses with the current, 1mm-thin, screw-attached mounting flanges. Leica was simply not going to waste time and money (re)producing and retrofitting the older thick flanges, that had been phased out since 1970. A few lenses, such as the 90mm Tele-Elmarit-M, that had the thin mount as early as 1974, but were produced throughout the 1980s, were "grandfathered in."

The original manual lens-selection menu list was based on the same limited range of (mostly) post-1979 lenses. With even a few of those left out (135 Tele-Elmar/APO, 35mm Summilux pre-ASPH).

Over time, and with increasing ROM/CPU capability, Leica has added a few more "antique" lenses to the menu, bit by bit (hah!).

...................

However, Leica is not a charity. Its business (and the function of M camera bodies) is selling NEW Leica lenses at a profit. There is no profit in supporting every Leica (or even every M Leica) lens ever made, even in the menu.

Zeiss/Leica 15mm Hologon? No.
21mm Super-Angulons? No.
28mm Elmarits v.I/II? No.
35 Summarons? No.
35mm Summicrons v.I/II/III? No.
40mm Summicron-C/Elmarit-C? No.
50mm f/3.5 Elmar? No.
50mm f/2.0 Summicron collapsible (v.I)? No.
50mm Summicron Rigid/DR (v.II)? No.
50mm f/2.0 ELCAN? No. 
65mm Macro-Elmar? No.
90mm f/4 Elmar/Elmar-C (except modern Macro)? No.
90mm Elmarit v.I? No.
90mm Tele-Elmarit v.I? No.
90mm Summicron "stovepipes" v.I/II? No.
135mm Hektor/Elmar? No.

One has to find a "near substitute" for all those, in the menus.

Fortunately, for lenses 50mm and longer, there is not much difference, except for the exact name in EXIF. And some 35mm lens types will also be "close enough" in terms of imaging corrections.

[MattMaber]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, jaapv said:

If it is only about the focal length just pick any lens of the same focal lens from the list.

It would be, but it puts that other specific lens info in.
The option to add your own, or merely have the focal length would be happily received 

[lct]

Not sure why Leica would do that. Suffice it to use software like File Multi Tool for Mac.

[MattMaber]

19 hours ago, lct said:

Not sure why Leica would do that. 

to make it easier for customers?
blimey

[UliWer]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb MattMaber:

to make it easier for customers?
blimey

That would be a good point if Leica offered service for accountants.

[MattMaber]

not for anyone specific but I do find it somewhat revealing the very odd revulsion some people here seem to have to very simple feature requests.

Im not for one second suggesting Lecia read this and would add anything I say but to cast a simple suggestion out of hand or even add snark when its implementation would not effect "you" in any way  borders  on sociopath.

Ive seen similar replies on other threads to other people that are just bizzarly passive aggressive

Its. fricking camera FFs

[lct]

5 hours ago, MattMaber said:

to make it easier for customers?

Or to help Zeiss and Cosina competing against Leica? 😉

[adan]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:41 AM, MattMaber said:

It would be, but it puts that other specific lens info in.

Not being snarky - by why is that a practical problem?

In the history of this forum, it is usually the "traditionalists" that object to added features - even if they will be "invisible" in operation and can be ignored.

Asked why they object to a feature (e.g. video or IS) they never have to see, let alone use, the response is often "Eeeeeewww! But I'd know it's in there."

Rather like the inverse of the anal-retentive stage director who insisted that if a prop pistol would be pulled out of a drawer in the the third act - it had to BE in the drawer for the whole performance. Otherwise: "Eeeeweww! The first two acts would be inaccurate!"

Seems to me that "Eeeeewww! But I'd know the wrong name is in the metadata" somewhat falls into that same category - doesn't it?

As The Bard from not so far away from Portsmouth put it - "What's in a name? A Summicron v.1 by any other name would image as sweetly."

And as a practical matter (again), the metadata for the 11817 (v.3) 50mm Summicron, if selected in the menu, reads:

Focal length: 50.0mm
Lens: 50mm Summicron 1:2/50 Leitz
Max aperture value: f/2.0
Lens specification: 50mm f/2

Which is completely accurate data for the v.1/v.2 50mm Summicrons as well. Why go to additional expense (firmware revision, added RAM capacity) for the identical result?

[jaapv]

Give me one reason why a company, any company, would include a competitor's' product in their software. Not only that, but other brands are not even coded. The manual input is meant for legacy Leica lenses.

1 hour ago, MattMaber said:

not for anyone specific but I do find it somewhat revealing the very odd revulsion some people here seem to have to very simple feature requests.

Im not for one second suggesting Lecia read this and would add anything I say but to cast a simple suggestion out of hand or even add snark when its implementation would not effect "you" in any way  borders  on sociopath.

Ive seen similar replies on other threads to other people that are just bizzarly passive aggressive

Its. fricking camera FFs

 

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[MattMaber]

Wow.

 

No wonder we Leica users get the reputation we doing, maybe it is somewhat deserved 

[lct]

36 minutes ago, MattMaber said:

No wonder we Leica users get the reputation we doing, maybe it is somewhat deserved 

Not sure what reputation you are referring to. Many (most?) Leica users are using Cosina made lenses too. I must have a little dozen of them personally. I like them much but i don't expect Leica to help Zeiss or Cosina competing against them. BTW almost all my VM and ZM lenses are hand-coded. Not a big deal really.