Lens recognition M262

[jaapv]

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25 minutes ago, FlickM said:

 Thank you for clarifying and for being patient with someone new to the system! I must have missed or misunderstood the bit that said mount the lens and the framelines are triggered. That was why i was asking what menu setting i needed. Though if it's that simple, why the need to choose between off/manual/auto in the menu, which it now appears i don't need to do. I shan't buy the other version, having just purchased a very good, barely used copy of the lens. Thank you again 🙂

You don’t choose that in the menu. Aperture priority or shutter speed are chosen by the dial on the top and the aperture is always manual. The only  menu choice is ISO.

[FlickM]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You don’t choose that in the menu. Aperture priority or shutter speed are chosen by the dial on the top and the aperture is always manual. The only  menu choice is ISO.

This is what I’m referring to, in the user manual

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[jaapv]

It is completely unimportant for taking photographs. Just shoot the thing. It is a manual camera...

[a.noctilux]

As stated in the manual, @FlickM you should choose "off".

As M262 user, I think that one important thing to know, the viewfinder framelines "LED illumination" disabled after some time (to manage the battery).

To reactivate the illumination, just push the release button to first stage.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, FlickM said:

...I use manual or off for lens recognition? I guess i will see when i get the camera, but I'm a bit wary after the manual threatened me i could do damage if I used the wrong lens setting...

Hi and welcome to the Forum. Going back to basics for a moment here is some stuff which doesn't apply to you (at the moment) but which might shed light on some of your confusion.

Leica Digi-M cameras have a Physio-Optical system on the lens flange which can recognise the majority of recent (i.e. 6-Bit Coded) Leica lenses and, if neccessary, can apply in-body corrections for various lens aberrations such as vignetting and so on. This will be done automatically (if the lens is 6-Bit coded) and the 'Auto' setting is selected in the menu. If the lens is NOT 6-Bit coded but is made by Leica and fairly recent there may be an option to choose such a lens in the Manual setting listing.

The (to be perfectly honest not really that) bad news is that none of this is applicable to you with the 40mm Voigtlander f2.8. The 40mm f2 Summicron (of 1973-1979) apart Leica has never made a 40mm Lens in M-Mount therefore there is no possibility of selecting this f/length in any Menu on any camera. The old (1973-1979) Leica CL apart no Leica has ever had 40mm framelines in the viewfinder.

The good news for you is that none of the above really matters very much.

In terms of v/f framing the lens will bring up the 50mm framelines which is a Good Thing as everything which is within the 50mm lines will be in the captured images with a little bit spare on all sides as well. This is Very Good News because if you used the 35mm framelines instead you would NOT get everything you see within the lines and might very easily crop-out Important Stuff.

In terms of Lens Profile Setting  there's probably not that much to correct with a 40mm f2.8 in the first place. I don't know how much barrel (pincusion) distortion nor vignetting there might be with the Heliar but I would be astonished were I to discover that there was anything which couldn't be dialled-out in just a few seconds during Post-Prod.

Bottom-Line? My advice to you (if I may be so forward) would be Do Not Sweat the Small Stuff; that would be a complete waste of your time. There is an awful lot of nonsense written about the 'problems' using non-coded lenses with a Digi-M camera. Similarly with just a very small amount of practice and in a short amount of time you will learn that the image 'as captured' corresponds to roughly the same as that seen when using the outside of the 50mm framelines as a general guideline instead of the inside of these things.

FWIW one of my absolute favourite lenses to use with my M-D Typ-262 is a Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 Nokton and I could hardly be happier with what it can produce.

Best of good fortune when they all finally arrive and if you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask; the members here are all very helpful and knowledgable.

Philip.

[strangeboy]

4 hours ago, FlickM said:

@strangeboy to add,  normally i would play around with the camera settings and work it out that way. The reason I've asked questions instead was because the user manual gave a very stern warning about the possibility of bricking the camera if using the wrong lens recognition settings 

Hmmm. I've never heard of that. Interesting.

[FlickM]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is completely unimportant for taking photographs. Just shoot the thing. It is a manual camera...

 It hopefully you can understand why I, as a total newcomer to the system, was confused 

 

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is completely unimportant for taking photographs. Just shoot the thing. It is a manual camera...

 

[FlickM]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

As stated in the manual, @FlickM you should choose "off".

As M262 user, I think that one important thing to know, the viewfinder framelines "LED illumination" disabled after some time (to manage the battery).

To reactivate the illumination, just push the release button to first stage.

Thank you

[FlickM]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

.Best of good fortune when they all finally arrive and if you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask; the members here are all very helpful and knowledgable.

Philip.

THANK you Philip. This is super helpful 😊 a great relief to get a comprehensive reply that understands where I’m coming from. I have the lens now. The camera is arriving next week as the seller is currently away. 

[andybarton]

I have two lenses that are 6-bit coded (with the black and white stripes on the mount). I also have one lens that is not coded. 

I have lens detection set to “Automatic” and have never had any problems since 2015 when I bought my M240, and I’ve changed lenses thousands of times  

I have no idea why Leica say that might cause a malfunction (it doesn’t) and I’ve never heard of a camera being “bricked” by using non-coded lenses. 

If you only have one non-coded lens, such as the Voigtlander 40mm, you can manually set the lens detection to the nearest Leica equivalent, which would be a 50 Elmarit, but I wouldn’t bother if it were mine.

[dpitt]

8 hours ago, pippy said:

In terms of v/f framing the lens will bring up the 50mm framelines which is a Good Thing as everything which is within the 50mm lines will be in the captured images with a little bit spare on all sides as well. This is Very Good News because if you used the 35mm framelines instead you would NOT get everything you see within the lines and might very easily crop-out Important Stuff.

I would suggest that you use the lens as is. It will bring up the 50mm lines as Pippy explained. I often use the 40mm Summicron C and have the same issue. It brings up the 50 mm lines, and for me that was much to narrow. I found that if I use the inside of the 35mm lines of my M8 or M9 it works perfectly for me at normal distances.

The 35mm frame lines are designed to be a little bit too narrow, to prevent unintended cropping, so when you use the inside it should be accurate for the 40mm. I had my 40 mm mount modified to bring up the 35mm frames in stead of the 50mm frames. I can now almost forget that it is not a 35mm and just use the inside. 50mm frames do not work for my brain.
So, do some test shots at different distances with your lens, and if you find that the 50mm lines do not work for you, it is a simple operation to file off a bit of the lens mount to bring up the 35mm lines.

Edited January 17 by dpitt

[FlickM]

48 minutes ago, dpitt said:

I would suggest that you use the lens as is. It will bring up the 50mm lines as Pippy explained. I often use the 40mm Summicron C and have the same issue. It brings up the 50 mm lines, and for me that was much to narrow. I found that if I use the inside of the 35mm lines of my M8 or M9 it works perfectly for me at normal distances.

The 35mm frame lines are designed to be a little bit too narrow, to prevent unintended cropping, so when you use the inside it should be accurate for the 40mm. I had my 40 mm mount modified to bring up the 35mm frames in stead of the 50mm frames. I can now almost forget that it is not a 35mm and just use the inside. 50mm frames do not work for my brain.
So, do some test shots at different distances with your lens, and if you find that the 50mm lines do not work for you, it is a simple operation to file off a bit of the lens mount to bring up the 35mm lines.

Thank you for this. Though I probably won’t alter the lens just in case I want to sell it further down the line. I think 50mm lines will probably work for me as I’m very familiar with it - my first camera in the 70s was a Pentax SV with no TTL metering, and a wonderful, razor sharp 50mm screw mount lens, and I’ve had other 50s down the years - but I will see when the camera arrives, and, of course, all is conjecture till then . 

[FlickM]

1 hour ago, andybarton said:

I have two lenses that are 6-bit coded (with the black and white stripes on the mount). I also have one lens that is not coded. 

I have lens detection set to “Automatic” and have never had any problems since 2015 when I bought my M240, and I’ve changed lenses thousands of times  

I have no idea why Leica say that might cause a malfunction (it doesn’t) and I’ve never heard of a camera being “bricked” by using non-coded lenses. 

If you only have one non-coded lens, such as the Voigtlander 40mm, you can manually set the lens detection to the nearest Leica equivalent, which would be a 50 Elmarit, but I wouldn’t bother if it were mine.

Thank you for this. What I wanted was a straight answer, set it to auto manual or off, and you've given it to me. As for Leica saying that, I guess they’re covering all bases, like the possible side effects on a prescription medicine packet, or eject your card/drive properly or it may be corrupted 

[andybarton]

9 minutes ago, FlickM said:

the possible side effects on a prescription medicine packet, or eject your card/drive properly or it may be corrupted 

To be fair, both of those ARE definitely true.

[FlickM]

5 minutes ago, andybarton said:

To be fair, both of those ARE definitely true.

But not likely - but perhaps not the best analogy, fair enough 

Edited January 17 by FlickM

[pippy]

9 hours ago, pippy said:

...The 40mm f2 Summicron (of 1973-1979) apart Leica has never made a 40mm Lens in M-Mount...

First-off and just for the sake of veracity I must correct my earlier comment quoted above. There was a very short run (less than 500 examples) of a 40mm f2.8 Elmarit-C produced for the '70s Leica CL but this lens wasn't put in to full production and - being roughly ten times the price of the f2.0 option - are mainly only sought-after by collectors because of their rarity.

1 hour ago, dpitt said:

...I often use the 40mm Summicron C and have the same issue. It brings up the 50 mm lines, and for me that was much to narrow. I found that if I use the inside of the 35mm lines of my M8 or M9 it works perfectly for me at normal distances...

This brings up a point which I don't remember reading about in the forum previosly so thank you, Dirk, for mentioning it.

You are quite correct and I agree with you completely that when used with an M8 or M9 the 35mm framelines can be a more useful guide. In point of fact when I used the aforementioned 40 Nokton on my old M9 and my current M Monochrom (M9M) I do sometimes check the 35 guides using the frame selector lever.

However; I don't do this with the M-D 262 for a very good reason and one which, whilst I'm not certain, am fairly sure will be relevant not just for the OP but for anyone with this particular generation of Digi-M camera. The M8 / M9 series' (as we know) used the traditional Optical Framelines system which dates right back to 1954 and the M3. The M 240 / M 262 / M-D 262 models, on the other hand, use electronically generated framelines. It has been my experience that these are FAR more accurate for their respective lenses than the optical system ever was.

The bottom line is that when I used the f/l selection lever to check the 35mm setting with the 40mm Nokton on my 262 I ended up cropping 'important stuff' out because these electronically generated lines were now accurate for a 35mm and could not be relied upon at all for use with the 40mm so that was a Lesson Learned the Hard Way!

Happily my own mistake of using the v/f lever with the 40 is not one open to the OP as, unlike the M-D variant, the regular M 262 doesn't have this feature.

Philip.

Edited January 17 by pippy

[NigelG]

The framelines are still a physical mask with linear cutouts - just electrically illuminated.

The only change IIRC was from 1m back to 2m distance for accurate framing 

[jaapv]

Accurate framing at 2 m that is. At 1 meter they will be too wide. 

[FlickM]

41 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Accurate framing at 2 m that is. At 1 meter they will be too wide. 

This is entirely fascinating and an absorbing learning curve. Thanks so much everyone for pitching in and helping. 

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[jaapv]

4 hours ago, pippy said:

First-off and just for the sake of veracity I must correct my earlier comment quoted above. There was a very short run (less than 500 examples) of a 40mm f2.8 Elmarit-C produced for the '70s Leica CL but this lens wasn't put in to full production and - being roughly ten times the price of the f2.0 option - are mainly only sought-after by collectors because of their rarity.

This brings up a point which I don't remember reading about in the forum previosly so thank you, Dirk, for mentioning it.

You are quite correct and I agree with you completely that when used with an M8 or M9 the 35mm framelines can be a more useful guide. In point of fact when I used the aforementioned 40 Nokton on my old M9 and my current M Monochrom (M9M) I do sometimes check the 35 guides using the frame selector lever.

However; I don't do this with the M-D 262 for a very good reason and one which, whilst I'm not certain, am fairly sure will be relevant not just for the OP but for anyone with this particular generation of Digi-M camera. The M8 / M9 series' (as we know) used the traditional Optical Framelines system which dates right back to 1954 and the M3. The M 240 / M 262 / M-D 262 models, on the other hand, use electronically generated framelines. It has been my experience that these are FAR more accurate for their respective lenses than the optical system ever was.

The bottom line is that when I used the f/l selection lever to check the 35mm setting with the 40mm Nokton on my 262 I ended up cropping 'important stuff' out because these electronically generated lines were now accurate for a 35mm and could not be relied upon at all for use with the 40mm so that was a Lesson Learned the Hard Way!

Happily my own mistake of using the v/f lever with the 40 is not one open to the OP as, unlike the M-D variant, the regular M 262 doesn't have this feature.

Philip.

According to Erwin Puts the Elmar 40 C was not taken into full production as the image quality left much to be desired. It never ended up in a catalog. 
Regarding the “electronic “ framelines  I can confirm that they are the traditional mechanical ones, only the illumination window has been replaced by a LED.