Request: APO SUMMICRON-M 35mm bokeh balls

[wdahab]

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Don't have the time to pull from photos (and of course the f-stop in the exif is unreliable) but the bokeh stays round all the way through the stops. Further, the optical vignetting (the tendency of bokeh balls in the corner to distort) stay fairly round/oval shaped, without getting much cats eye effect (where they have pointiness and asymmetry.

[Erato]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:29 PM, Lesslemming said:

May I ask a favour from the crowd of lucky APO 35mm Users?

It interests me to see the change in shape of the bokeh balls from this lens when stopped down from 2.0 to say 2.8 or 5.6. What shape do the aperture blades produce? Could someone please post a series or point me in the direction where this was done before?

 

Thank you

FYR.

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Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-R @f2.0

 

Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-R @f2.8

 

Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-r @f4

 

[Lesslemming]

14 hours ago, wdahab said:

Don't have the time to pull from photos (and of course the f-stop in the exif is unreliable) but the bokeh stays round all the way through the stops. Further, the optical vignetting (the tendency of bokeh balls in the corner to distort) stay fairly round/oval shaped, without getting much cats eye effect (where they have pointiness and asymmetry.

Wonderful. Precisely what I was looking for. Thank you, I appreciate it.
I also appreciate the comment by wdahab, which also answers my question.

The reason this makes me so happy:

I asked because I sometimes take images with light sources in the back that turn the well-known ninja-star shape with some of my lenses. Totally normal phenomenon, but an aesthetic I don‘t like -personally- and would want to know in advance before investing into this specific lens. Whoever thinks about getting the Apo Summicron-M 35mm and wonders what the shape of the bokeh balls may be when stopped down, may find a great resource in this thread for future reference.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Lesslemming

[patrickcolpron]

I will have to do this in multiple posts, first at f/2 this is no indication on how creamy the bokeh is with the APO 35 M but it will give you an idea of the bokeh balls 

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[patrickcolpron]

Second is a crop of the f2 sample photo 

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[patrickcolpron]

Here is the f/2.8 un-cropped photo, I will follow with the cropped photo of the f/2.8 bokeh sample photo, cropped of the f/4 and f/5.6 I am sure there is no real need to post uncrossed photos following this one since this is regarding the bokeh ball shape 

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[patrickcolpron]

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Center crop of the out of focus capture for the f/2.8 example

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[patrickcolpron]

Centre crop of the f/4 out of focus capture 

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[patrickcolpron]

Center crop of the f/5.6 capture with the APO 35, hope this helps in some manner 

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[don daniel]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Erato:

FYR.

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Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-R @f2.0

 

Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-R @f2.8

 

Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/35mm ASPH., M10-r @f4

 

Sorry, these are shot wide open, no matter what the EXIFS tell you.

[Lesslemming]

Thank you all for participating. It does seem like the images posted by Erato may indeed not show a sequence of stopped down images, but rather images wide open?
The completely circular balls indicate as much; I was impressed but it seems that was rather misleading. 

On the other hand, the images posted by patrickcolpron do indeed show a sequence and the nature of the bokeh balls can be seen very nicely. Thank you for that, this will be helpful for others in the future as well, I hope

[evikne]

I'm still wondering why it's so hard to find a series of images like this (here's is a different lens). It would take a minute to snap a few shots with a cell phone of different aperture values, and would show even more clearly what kind of bokeh balls to expect.

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[Erato]

On 1/16/2024 at 5:45 AM, don daniel said:

Sorry, these are shot wide open, no matter what the EXIFS tell you.

Really? What compelled you hold that view?

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[don daniel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Erato:

Really? What compelled you hold that view?

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The bokeh circles look exactly the way they do when the aperture is open: perfectly round in the center of the image and around it, slightly cat-eyed towards the corners. An M lens does not have an electronic connection to the camera body. Hence, the Leica M cannot know at what aperture the photo was taken. Instead, it estimates it, and sometimes it does this better, sometimes worse. By the way, I have owned the Apo-Summicron 35mm and sold it again. In my opinion, the sharpness and bokeh of the lens are outstanding.

[a.noctilux]

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This shows the aperture form(s) at f/2.8 very well.

So no "Ninja" balls to talk about.

That is fine if not "perfect" at any mean.

[JCR33]

M10P @ f2.8

 

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[evikne]

It's strange that sometimes the bokeh balls are perfectly round at f/2.8, and sometimes not.

[Lesslemming]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:19 PM, evikne said:

It's strange that sometimes the bokeh balls are perfectly round at f/2.8, and sometimes not.

I would say that is to be expected, since the bokeh balls appear to be pretty good even at their worst for this lens. I’m impressed by what I see so far

[don daniel]

If you get really close to the subject, which you can with the Apo-Summicron 35mm, you get more or less round bokeh balls, even if not shot wide open. But as I explained above: If your EXIFS say, you shot at f/2.8 this does not have to be true. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[patrickcolpron]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:19 PM, evikne said:

It's strange that sometimes the bokeh balls are perfectly round at f/2.8, and sometimes not.

It is not strange that is because in both examples shared by Erato and JCR33 the photos shares are all wide open. It can be seen quite clearly in the shape of the pokey balls at the edge of these photos where at f/2 the shape is far from round at the edges of the image whereas at f/2.8 they are not "cat's eye shape" but more round. 

 

On 1/22/2024 at 9:54 PM, don daniel said:

If you get really close to the subject, which you can with the Apo-Summicron 35mm, you get more or less round bokeh balls, even if not shot wide open. But as I explained above: If your EXIFS say, you shot at f/2.8 this does not have to be true. 

Both samples by Erato and JCR33 are all wide open at f/2, not matter what is claimed - there is a reason why I shared the uncrossed photos at both f/2 and f/2.8 you can quite clearly see the nature of the shape of the highlight or what some call the bokeh balls - are much rounder once the lens is slightly closed down. 

This said I doubted my sample and maybe there was more to it. I tested this in my garden with specular highlights, the sun reflecting on leaves, maybe a light versus a reflected highlight would behave differently, no they don't. I had the same results. 

At the center of a photo when close focusing to let's say, 35cm the bokeh balls, or out of focus areas, are much rounder and you can't really see the aperture blade shape at the center but you can in the corner. Which we don't see on Erato and JRC33's photos. You can't only go with what the EXIF tells you, it is wrong 95% of the time as it is a guesstimate by the firmware. 

You have to test it making notes of what your aperture is. 

After all of this, good bokeh doesn't make a good photo. The rendering of the APO 35 is great, the bokeh is pleasing, the color rendition is top notch and if you like shooting against the light, it is stellar. 

Hope this puts this question to rest.