Forward and Backward Lens Compatibility for R10

[SoFi-Chaser]

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I don't quite see your point sorry. The Nikon mount is older than AF isn't it. So why do you want that the R mount, which is larger than the latter, needs to be changed because AF?

Hi there,

that's what Leica-people tell me, when I discuss that point on their product-presentations.

If they don't chose the moving-sensor-solution (if it was suitable, we'd have it already in the R9). If you keep the mount the same, significant changes in lens-design and -material are necessary. But if that will go within an loss of image- and production-quality it can't be done by Leica...

It is clear that something has to change for the R10d.

Another mount seems to be the most propable and easiest solution.

Not only the R10 must be adequate to a D4, the lenses also have to be far better than N and C. With a new mount, the lens-designers have far less limits than with the actual one.

The first nikon-AF-lenses used another technique than today. Why? I suppose today's solution is better. They just passed a small EOS-momentum, I guess.

 

Sorry, I'm too long without practice in english, so maybe I can't express correctly. (at least that's why I seldomly write in the international forum ;-))

 

However, a R10 will be far too expensive to me. So I wait for a cheap DMR.

 

Best regards

T.

[lct]

...If you keep the mount the same, significant changes in lens-design and -material are necessary...

Hi Torsten, your English is much better than mine fortunately for you.

Do you mean than some people at Leica told you explicitly that the R-mount would change for the R10?

Are those people working at Solms or are they just local Leica representatives?

What they say is hard to believe anyway as i still don't see why mere AF capabilities should imply significant changes to the mount itself other than what Ken said in the post above.

Now if you come to be right i know at least one guy who will feel ridiculous with the R lenses he's just acquired to avoid price increases when the R10 will be announced.

[stunsworth]

LCT, I wouldn't worry. If Leica offer a new mount without backwards compatibility the R10 will be dead in the water. There just aren't enough people out there prepared to spend huge amounts of money for a new camera _and_ a new set of lenses IMHO.

 

Like you I'm struggling to see why a new lens mount is needed in the first place.

[lct]

Thank you for your concern Steve but at worst i will do some more film with my little R4s which is a joy to use BTW. Now if i were Leica i would probably do my best to keep the s/h market as low as possible to encourage people like me who would not pay €10K+ for a DSLR and a couple of AF lenses anyway. Hence those rumors perhaps?

[leicar7]

The issue of a larger diameter R lens mount has to do with the possibility of the sensor being larger than 24x36. I doubt that the size of the lens mount would have much to do with AF.

 

IMHO, if R10 lenses are not usable on prior cameras, that would be a problem - a real problem - for any number of reasons.

[SoFi-Chaser]

Hi Torsten, your English is much better than mine fortunately for you.

Do you mean than some people at Leica told you explicitly that the R-mount would change for the R10?

NO.

All I know is, that if the R10 mount will be incompatible with the actual one, there will be an adapter-solution.

I hardly believe my friends at the shop just told that to make me buy some more R-Lenses ...

Those guys themselfes thought about the problem on their own without any definite info(!) But with all of there (insider-)knowledge about lens-construction, they don't see an AF with the actual mount.

 

Are those people working at Solms or are they just local Leica representatives?

Both, I live only 80km to drive away from Solms and in abot 30km driving I have 5 dealers to visit - so I have a lot of "insiders" to talk with ...

 

What they say is hard to believe anyway as i still don't see why mere AF capabilities should imply significant changes to the mount itself other than what Ken said in the post above.

my 2 cents:

Just imagine an AF-Lens with the actual mount. It will have a significant bigger diameter and thus it's more easily focused by hand - nice to have (I use an AF-Lens on my FM2), but not really needed. In addition the red dot will most propably not stay the only plastic in the lens. Then I don't need an R10 and could buy a cheaper D5 ...

I would save the money and buy my first R10-Lens when I own an R10-body.

 

Now if you come to be right i know at least one guy who will feel ridiculous with the R lenses he's just acquired to avoid price increases when the R10 will be announced.

You're not alone :-)

In the alst few years I could afford some very nice 2nd-hand R-lenses, because of two reasons:

- mechanics is hardly a risk - no plastic used

- the prices fall and fall for analogue equipment (F3-HP with winder an AI-lens, very good condition, just seen for 360 Euro in a shop, sigh ...)

--> I use them, I still do slide-films and when I can still use them with an R10 ->

Look at the prices vor Voigtlander-lenses, that can be used by adapter on M8 ...

Why shouldn't that happen to your/our R-lenses as well?

I don't buy them to make money. I use them (mine are more silver than black )

 

If they'l be incompatible with the R10, I'll keep my R-Equipment but I definitely won't buy digital R10, 'cause there are much cheaper and not that worse alternatives. (but I'm sure, Leica knows about that).

 

Regards

T.

 

PS.: BTW , just seen, LeicaR7 was faster. I agree with him.

[leicar7]

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If the R10 mount is of larger diameter than the current one, it is easy to imagine some form of forward compatibility, using an adapter.

 

If the sensor is larger than 24x36, it may also mean that the lens-flange-focusing relationships would be different.

 

It is more difficult for me to envision backward compatibility in such an instance: a larger diameter lens being mountable on the smaller camera lens mount. Hmmm.

[fernando_b]

Who of us would join this statement/request to Leica management?

 

If the R10 will not assure forward and backward compatibility of lenses I won't absolutely buy it! Sensor format larger than 24x36 is not interesting for me.

 

Fernando.

[leicar7]

I'm sure the R10 is already spec'd. Any concerns we have now are probably too late to change the design significantly. Herr Kaufmann was presented some sort of a mockup/prototype before he attended the recent LHSA meeting.

 

For me, personally, FF is what I have been wanting. A larger sensor doesn't do anything for me. The camera is a platform for lenses. My real interest lies more toward lenses.

 

However, there is a thought running around inside Leica that they want to introduce something that redefines reflex camera photography, or introduces something that will catch the market's attention with the R10. After all, they "invented" 35mm photography; now they see a need or want to "reinvent" the reflex photographing experience. Too many DSLRs already out there.

 

They want and feel that they need a product that will attract new users into Leica reflex photography. It is understandable that a FF R10 may be seen as just a competitor with the FF C and N models. They want to introduce something really different, redefine Leica photographing, somehow. The bigger sensor idea may be their way to stand out from a crowd in the reflex field.

 

But if they introduce, say, a 24/2, or a new 35/2 or 35/1.4, I'd like to be able to use it on my R9 until such time as I can or choose to buy an R10. If I can't use new lenses on the film R, then it will likely be considerably longer before I go with a digital R.

[sdai]

There's a great chance that you'll have some issues using the newer lenses on older bodies ... even if Leica retains the mechanical spec. of R mount ... just because of the added gimmicks, functionalities.

 

As I've posted in the "Digital Forum", Leica could go for a 4:5 aspect ratio 28x35mm format without tweaking a lot of stuff of the existing R mount, that way, they can build in a 21MP sensor with current and old Kodak (6.8µm) technology.

 

There isn't a lot of challenge on the sensor side at all, all Kodak has to do is cutting the wafer differently and it's no big deal because they're capable of doing much larger sensors for medium format.

 

It's the other things that we shall wait and see, such as ... backward compatibility, AWB performance, AF performance, no weird shutdown because of battery, etc.

 

I don't expect Leica to build a 1Ds3 or D3 competitor, IMO Leica should work on absolute base ISO performance approaching (if not matching ... not likely anyways) medium format quality.

 

If I want a Canon, I will buy a Canon, if I want a Nikon, then I'll buy a Nikon ... unlike many folks on this forum, I don't see why I should limit myself to one brand exclusively.

 

By the way, I wish they could ditch the DNG format and develop a proprietary format maximizing the potential of their file quality ... Phase One could offer some help here.

 

 

[adi sudarsono]

Dear all, if the R10 has Image Stabilization, then it would need a sensor bigger than Full Frame but it doesn't mean a bigger mount or format is needed. It is just because the sensor is wiggling but the actual pixels recorded would be full frame. In my opinion also a new mount is not nessesary. Even if there is a new mount, how long can we expect the new lens to appear? For the 4/3 format, there are only 2 Panaleica lens, and they are impossible to find. I think, Leica will be very busy designing and manufacturing new lens.

[leicanut2]

One must not forget Leica Adapter Hell.. There a just a tons of old adapters for this and that. Someone will, if not Leica make one to use old lenses on a AF body.

I my self WANT a Af Leica with at least one large lens for wild life shots. With my MP it may be a bit hard to get a good bear or lion shot unless you at the ZOO. Leica are you reading this.

Cheers Leicanut2