Leica S System Dead - Forever?

[davidmknoble]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I think this is a “cake and eat it too” scenario.  We can use OVF medium format film bodies and make them work all the way up to their peak best.  We can do that too, as Stuart says, with lower resolution mirror systems (Say even the S007) with manual focus.

Then, we can also use all the mirrorless, IBIS high contrast lenses and high ISO usability, with some of the modern systems.  I love the S system (and M, SL, R), but I am also growing on the Hasselblad system with the X2D.  I even noticed that the 38v, 55v and 90v are all f/2.5 lenses.  It wasn’t too long ago that the S lenses at f/2.5 and f/2.8 were the standard lens to beat.  Not saying the Halsey is better, but it is easier to get a crisp 100mp image that I can crop smaller and get incredible color.

So, I can pick what I want to shoot, and the system I want to shoot it with.  But there isn’t a one fits all MF with OVF.

[Dikdik]

Am 17.12.2023 um 16:39 schrieb BernardC:

Several Leica execs have mentioned a mirrorless S3 replacement, coming in 2025 at the earliest. Some of it is very specific, like pointing-out that the S system replacement will be able to use S lenses via an adapter. That's not something an executive invents out of thin air during an interview.

To answer the original question: there won't be any new S-system SLR bodies, but Leica is developing a new medium format mirrorless camera. This camera will be compatible with your S lenses, via an adapter.

Hello BernardC,

Reading the comments, hopes and fears in this topic, it let me feeling really sad and unhappy. All this remembers me to my own experiences some 15 or 20 years ago. We - my wife and me – are pure hobby photographers specialized in science and nature. Depending on time and money we're travelling around the world often to locations outside most of civilization sometimes attending scientific expeditions from universities or similar. So, no wonder, over years we've becoming big fans of Leica-R-System. Cameras and lenses especially the long apoteles worked in a fantastic manner. Despite we treated our lenses and cameras not exclusive carefully, never, really never, the systems failed not once; neither cameras nor lenses. In all climatic zones like tropics or arctics Leica-R-System worked absolute reliably. It was a fun to work with. 

Some of our fotos we sell for covering the costs of our hobby.

Then, we all entered the new era of digital photography. Films and slides became old-fashioned. However, Leica produced the Digital Module R for our cameras. No problem at all. We could sell the fotos, now in digital data. Publications become much easier and we were happy. But, one day we've got some unexpected problems. Professional agencies began to refuse our fotos because of too small megapixels – Digital-Module-R was limited to about 10 MP. Of course, not a very nice situation for us, but Leica has announced a new developed digital camera, advertised as successor of Leica R 9. Again, no big problem for us. Over some time not earning money in selling fotos will not kill our economic situation. Photography is only our hobby and not source of livelihood.

So, we had to wait. From year to year; from Photokina exhibition to Photokina exhibition in Cologne. Nothing happened. Obviously, the new camera was still under construction.

Meanwhile, new Canons and Nikons came on markets equipped with more and more megapixels, often 16, 18, 21 or even 24 MP's and some other fantastic attachments.

And what did Leica? Leica talked and talked and talked; sometimes in interviews with heads of company, sometimes in talks with management, sometimes detailed, sometimes a little bit cryptic but always announcing a new digital camera as follower of world famous R-System. Beside these hopeful pointers no digital Leica-R camera was presented.

In one year we didn't sell any of our new fotos and that was the point when we bought a basic digital camera equipment produced by a far eastern company.

But then! The company has finished construction of the new digital DSLR and S-System was presented.Wow! Handling was fantastic! Megapixels were more than enough, but the price! What was that? Apart from that unrealistic amount of money, we missed the big tele-lenses. Offering a 180mm tele-lens is for us – sorry – mockery, pure mockery and nothing else. And what in future will these big apotelyt lenses cost? Adapters are not a really good solution. We need big lenses of 500mm or better 600mm for our fotos from some rare birds, for determination of ektoparasites of mammals and so on.

So we have been forced to leave Leica company, bought over years a complete equipment made by a far eastern company, having fun with photography again, enjoying results and, again selling some fotos successfully. Our new lenses are producing fantastic quality, resolving power is amazing and extreme details become visible. But we have to care them very, very carefully. Lenses, falling down from car roof need immediately an expensive treatment followed by a long lasting healing process. A second and a third camera are attending now our trips to nature. We miss robustness of our Leica equipment. However, overall we were heavily disappointed.

From beginning Leica-S-System came on markets, the propaganda and advertising was striking and remarkable.

First, when we visited Photokina exhibition to see the new camera we've been impressed: Leica directed attention to the fact these cameras were water proofed and could resist heavy rainfalls. They said the S equipment will inaugurate a new dimension in nature and sports photography. A total restart of outdoor photography has been opened for users and foto enthusiasts all over the world. Furthermore, for a small amount of money I could buy a special worldwide and global service indeed.

Imagine, in the Chaco of Paraguay or in rainforests of Brazil, in the middle of Namib desert or at coastlines of Southern Atlantic islands I could get a special service! Wonderful! This was the best idea I've ever heard. Or not?

At that moment I became leery. I hesitated following the company.

Sorry, but who is thinking such unrealistic ideas? That person obviously never took fotos in nature! And why a special service at all? Could it be, the S cameras revealed an unexpected susceptibility for damage unlike the indestructible R series?

Probably the Leica company noticed the contradiction and now changed the target group to photographers of fashion, art and architecture. On the other side, will these people really need a water resistant camera for photography mostly in studios?

Nevertheless, they changed target groups and instead nature and sports suddenly photographers of art and fashion were using expensive S-cameras; obviously the new target group. 180mm tele lenses are ok for these groups. Apparently sports and nature were down. They didn't offer a 500mm Apo-Telyt-S lens. And now, such a system should be a successor of Leica-R-System? Especially for photographers of sports and nature once the famous big telelenses of Apo-Modul-R-System were calculated and produced. Worldwide these lenses have proved themselves; expensive, but worth each single dollar. And now? No big tele-lens S. No further support of R-System.

So, I think Leica didn't know what to do with that camera from beginning. Which target group? Which photographer? I suppose the S-System was a financial loss for the company. I really don't know that, I think so. Sometimes we still mourning about loss of Leica-R-System.

Anyhow, I hope very much, users and photographers of Leica S-System will not make experiences like we had with down and totally stopping of R-System. Meanwhile the company has finished any support and services for R-System. Not even batteries are offered for the Digital-Modul-R.

For the new mirrorless S-System Leica has to recalculate and produce new lenses. There is no other way. So, perhaps, you should be a little bit more realistic when talking about futures of S-System. Telling my own story and experiences I want to prevent you from disappointments when mirrorless S-System will be released. Anyway, with all my heart I wish expectetions of readers will coming true totally. 

Have always right light, enjoy your fotos, have a nice and peaceful christmas and a happy new year.

Dikdik

PS: sorry for my clumsy English. It's not my native language.

[irenedp]

The story you refer with so much detail is very sad. And it is a cautionary tale, too. 

It is always risky to expect that a company that has diversified into home cinema and luxury watches will deliver a rarefied medium format system for professionals and -very few, because it is not an M- rich amateurs. 

Nevertheless I would, at least today, not think of a Leica (any Leica) for nature photography. My daughter, for instance, uses a Nikon Z9. And I think that Canon and the oriental  company have similar products.  … just not as good as Nikon, smiles… But definitely it is not a Leica Market. 

Medium Format is a complicated proposition, and to win over the professional fashion market, they should be very thoughtful, and be able to outperform Phase One at a significantly lower price point. 

With a smaller sensor, making it happen is not easy. 

There are other customer segments such as wedding photographers, but those are served by Fuji and their cheap GFX.

And then there’s Hasselblad and their X2D , again not at Leica’s price level. 

Leica needs to figure out an unoccupied or underserved segment with enough purchasing power. The only one I can think about is Phase, and that means mirrorless, maybe IBIS, but also jumping up in sensor size. 
 

Just a thought 

[BernardC]

@Dikdik, many of us went through a similar journey. In a way, Leica users were lucky, because the company survived, and the R lenses were compatible with the EOS system, so they could be used as intended. I remember when the 5D came out and all of a sudden R lenses were popular again. That was three years after the R9 was released, so not a huge wait. Homer's Odyssey took 10 years!

Customers of other brands weren't so lucky: only a few Rollei, Contax, Olympus lenses could be reliably attached to EOS cameras, and those brands struggled and exited the 35mm SLR market.

I'm not sure that the S2 was ever meant to replace the R cameras. The S was a wonderful/daring experiment for Leica to enter the professional medium format market. It was never meant for amateurs, or sports photographers, or journalists, etc.

There's no point in arguing whether or not the S was a "success." It lasted 15 years during the most turbulent period in the photography market since the end of the daguerreotype! Even if it wasn't a money-maker, Leica got two important legacies from the S: the technical architecture for every digital Leica going forward (the hand-soldered M8 and DMR architecture were dead-ends), and a line of lenses that established their place at the top of consumer optics in the digital era. Even more important than that, it got Leica out of their comfort zone of selling to a niche of wealthy amateurs. They still do that to a large extent with the M, but the S exposed them to a new group of customers, who had completely different expectations. I feel that they had learn from the S, in order to compete in the mass market with the SL.

That's still a sore point for many, of course! Don't we all wish we were 20 years younger? On the other hand, who would have thought that Leica could go from near-bankruptcy in 2005, to where they are today? Leicas used to be some weird fetish object that most successful photographers had never even tried, and now they are familiar to a whole generation of photographers, and you can even find them in shops around the world. They even managed to do this without compromising their core values of optical excellence and superior haptics. It's been an incredible journey, with endless twists and turns.

 

[LeicaR10]

As I and others in the S forum have stated, the S system is NOT DEAD.   The S4 is a mirrorless Medium Format camera with new lenses, backward compatible with current S lenses.  The S system that I used for my business since 2009 was simply superb.  Yes, there were hicups with the S lenses, but that was long resolved.  Two things about the S system.  First, the S system saved Leica from going under in the mid-2000s.  The S system was developed for professional photographers who needed a MF camera.  The S camera and lenses were designed and built from scratch for digital, not like other cameras of the day like Hasselblad, etc..  Second, the S camera is NOT a prosumer camera, never has been.  It was designed to meet the requirements for professionals who needed a weather resistant, digital, MF camera and lenses.  Last, I fully expect the S4 to be once again a professional level camera.  Those photographers needing a MF camera will write the expense off with their business.  Right now, the current S cameras and S lenses are remain stellar in all regards, nothing comes close to the look or rendering of the cinematic camera sensor, paired with the Leica S lenses.  This is what sold my large prints to coroporations and collectors for nearly 14 years and these clients would not accept anything less than photographs taken with the S system...it is that unique.  If you want further comfirmation about the S4 and system, wathc the latest Red Dot Forum video on You Tube.  Josh Lehrer from Leica Store Miami talks about the S4 and system near the remaining 20 minutes of the video.  I personally, know Leica has the S4 in development as told to by senior Leica management since January 2022.  Look to 2025 as the period for the S4 arrival.  In the meantime, start saving or apply for your black AMEX card.   Happy New Year to all.  r/ Mark  

Edited December 26, 2023 by LeicaR10

[SlowDriver]

If the "mythical" new medium format system has a new mount... I would say it is a new system... which would imply that the old system is dead...  but perhaps I am missing something...  Also Josh Lehrer did mention the new medium format system in RDF (don't recall whether he called it S4) but David Farkas on the other hand was more sceptical and even referenced the R10, if even he has his doubts I am not sure why more mortal souls would not have their doubts... And just my 2 cents, after not investing in the S system for the better part of a decade Leica does not exactly have much credibility left as far as I am concerned, I personally shot HB with a Phase digital back, bought into the S system, then went back to HB with the XD, there is no way I would ever buy back into Leica MF, the above-mentioned R system comes to mind but even more recently the CL system which went the same way as the R system, including Leica till the last moment saying that it was "a continuing part of our product range", in the meanwhile we know better...  If there ever is a new Leica medium format system, I am sure it will be fabulous and I am also sure it will cost an arm and a leg, but if it is not an immediate slam dunk (like the Q system) will Leica continue to further develop it?  Or will they slowly let it bleed to death again like they have done for so many years with the S system? 

Edited December 26, 2023 by SlowDriver

[Pieter12]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I don't give a rat's ass if there is an S4 coming or not. Bells and whistles don't impress me. I want a reliable camera with outstanding lenses. I did not need video or ISO umpteen thousand with film, why should I now? I just want Leica to not stop supporting the cameras that are out there, like they have done with the older film cameras or Hasselblad with their analog cameras. Wishful thinking, I know. Few if any manufacturers can or will support cameras and lenses over 10 years old.

[Guest]

The S system as we know it (single point Af system sourced from Pentax, amazingly large and bright OVF, no IBIS, no lenses beyond 180mm/150 in FF terms, well-dampened mirror box, very limited production runs, useful integrated GPS module, large battery capacity, etc.) came to an end with the S3. I know a thing or two about the successor, I don't expect it to be entirely smooth sailing. The old lenses will adapt to the new mount, but there's a twist to that, too.

[irenedp]

7 hours ago, HandofSand said:

The S system as we know it (single point Af system sourced from Pentax, amazingly large and bright OVF, no IBIS, no lenses beyond 180mm/150 in FF terms, well-dampened mirror box, very limited production runs, useful integrated GPS module, large battery capacity, etc.) came to an end with the S3. I know a thing or two about the successor, I don't expect it to be entirely smooth sailing. The old lenses will adapt to the new mount, but there's a twist to that, too.

If the resolution of the new camera is higher (say 100 MP), the old lenses may not resolve as well as they do now. There is some difference between how well they resolve detail between the S2 and the S3, although it is still very good. I had the experience of the GFX lenses between the 50 and the 100 -not the same- and Phase One had to create the Blue Ring lenses and then create a second iteration of Blue Ring in some focal distances for the same reason. So even if they can be adapted, detail resolving may not be as good as with the new. 

[LeicaR10]

Irenedp,  You might find it interesting the resolving power of the current S lenses.  Peter Karbe the lead optical designer of the S lens line stated in a video interview in the early years of the system the S lenses can resolve better than 200 nm and only smiled when asked the actual resolving capabilty of the S lenses.  Bottomline, the current S lenses have no problem resolving over 100 MP sensors.  Plus there is a difference between a S2 CCD and S3 CMOS sensors in resolution, with the S3 being in a class on its own.  r/ Mark

[irenedp]

Mark, I don't dispute it. I think the Leica S lenses are superb. I just point out that there's a tiny bit of difference with the same lens on the S2 and the S3 (which, btw, is much more noticeable with the Mamiya Shift 50, the only non system lens I use for the S). 

In the case of the GFX, I remember the Fuji CEO mentioning after Photokina in 18' -when they introduced the GFX 100- that their lenses had been designed to resolve 100 MP. And they did, but in my experience, when I switched at the end of 2019 from a 50s to a 100, not as well as with the 50.

Regarding Phase One, there's a video around on YouTube where their head of design discusses and tests the whole range of Blue Rings -which coincided with the presentation of "improved" Blue Rings. Out of the 3 lenses I have, the 80 and the 35 are exceptional, but the Mamiya 120 Macro (an older lens) is wanting. 

So, not disputing it, I am in love with the S lenses, and plan to invest in one or two more. But due to previous experiences, it's something in the back of my mind.

[Jon Warwick]

5 hours ago, irenedp said:

 

In the case of the GFX, I remember the Fuji CEO mentioning after Photokina in 18' -when they introduced the GFX 100- that their lenses had been designed to resolve 100 MP. And they did, but in my experience, when I switched at the end of 2019 from a 50s to a 100, not as well as with the 50.

 

I guess lenses such as the GF 110mm were already ahead of many of the other GF lenses before the 100mp bodies emerged, and now Fuji has apparently upped the game again with the new GF 55mm and their tilt-shifts that seem to get very strong reviews. I’ll certainly be trying out the 55mm against my GF 50mm for landscapes - the latter is already good, but perhaps the new 55mm is noticeably better it seems. I wonder if we’re seeing the Fuji equivalent of the “Blue Ring” upgrades here now that we are at 100mp?

Edited December 27, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[OZLeica]

Although there is much talk about a mirrorless model [S4?] in the future, I think Leica at the medium format end is dead. Why, for the following reasons,

S3 only released in 2020 and now not supported, hard to get lenses in Australia and even in Japan.

$30,000aud and not even 3 years old, burnt alot users at that end of the market. That is probably unforgivable....

Has been surpassed by Fujifilm GFX100ii, colour grade, focus and thrashed in price point for bodies and lenses. There is even a suggestion another medium format camera will be released in the first quarter of 2024, the100Sii which could further strengthen their position in Medium Format.

Leica technology is struggling, the S3 was behind the game when it released, displaying a serious lack of innovation. In fact Leica overall is being surpassed in camera innovation, Sony are producing exceptional full frame etc. and an enviable price.

 

[John McMaster]

Have you used an S body and lens?  Fuji does not interest me and not been impressed yet by the Hasselblad, not sure what innovation is needed? Stepped autofocus to get things in focus and maybe eye focus are about the only ones...

john

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, OZLeica said:

$30,000aud and not even 3 years old, burnt alot users at that end of the market. That is probably unforgivable....

The S was never meant to be a mainstream camera. I think they made enough S3 bodies to satisfy hardcore professionals, and also a few dedicated amateurs. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that this small handful of highly-experienced photographers got burnt, unless the camera didn't perform to their expectations.

Last I heard, people were disappointed that the new Fuji 100 wasn't as good as their previous model. If that's the case, good on Fuji for releasing an update so fast. I wonder if they'll offer generous trade-in values to those who gambled on the previous upgrade. I have tried the GFX, but it really wasn't for me. I can see how it would work for landscape photographers. The lenses are quite good stopped-down, and the system can be very compact.

[irenedp]

23 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The S was never meant to be a mainstream camera. I think they made enough S3 bodies to satisfy hardcore professionals, and also a few dedicated amateurs. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that this small handful of highly-experienced photographers got burnt, unless the camera didn't perform to their expectations.

Last I heard, people were disappointed that the new Fuji 100 wasn't as good as their previous model. If that's the case, good on Fuji for releasing an update so fast. I wonder if they'll offer generous trade-in values to those who gambled on the previous upgrade. I have tried the GFX, but it really wasn't for me. I can see how it would work for landscape photographers. The lenses are quite good stopped-down, and the system can be very compact.

I have an S3... very very happy with it, no issues. And traded about a year and a half ago a GFX 100 (the original version) for a rather battered Phase XF with an IQ4. No possible comparison. I wouldn't argue which system is better, because "better" is always more suited for one's needs, but I am happier with the S3 and the Phase than I was with the GFX. 

[Einst_Stein]

It might be interesting to think S4 down the clue of Sinar. It seems recently a Leica has an eye on T&S, albeit through firmware. 
How about a S4 with native T&S support? Larger mount mouth? T&S friendly view finder? Or simply a T&S friendly SL?

[irenedp]

55 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

It might be interesting to think S4 down the clue of Sinar. It seems recently a Leica has an eye on T&S, albeit through firmware. 
How about a S4 with native T&S support? Larger mount mouth? T&S friendly view finder? Or simply a T&S friendly SL?

That sounds enticing. I use a Mamiya shift 50 and the 120 t/s and neither is all that easy. Something in body like the Cambo or the Phase XT would be nice. 

[jaapv]

On 12/26/2023 at 12:29 PM, Dikdik said:

Hello BernardC,

Reading the comments, hopes and fears in this topic, it let me feeling really sad and unhappy. All this remembers me to my own experiences some 15 or 20 years ago. We - my wife and me – are pure hobby photographers specialized in science and nature. Depending on time and money we're travelling around the world often to locations outside most of civilization sometimes attending scientific expeditions from universities or similar. So, no wonder, over years we've becoming big fans of Leica-R-System. Cameras and lenses especially the long apoteles worked in a fantastic manner. Despite we treated our lenses and cameras not exclusive carefully, never, really never, the systems failed not once; neither cameras nor lenses. In all climatic zones like tropics or arctics Leica-R-System worked absolute reliably. It was a fun to work with. 

Some of our fotos we sell for covering the costs of our hobby.

Then, we all entered the new era of digital photography. Films and slides became old-fashioned. However, Leica produced the Digital Module R for our cameras. No problem at all. We could sell the fotos, now in digital data. Publications become much easier and we were happy. But, one day we've got some unexpected problems. Professional agencies began to refuse our fotos because of too small megapixels – Digital-Module-R was limited to about 10 MP. Of course, not a very nice situation for us, but Leica has announced a new developed digital camera, advertised as successor of Leica R 9. Again, no big problem for us. Over some time not earning money in selling fotos will not kill our economic situation. Photography is only our hobby and not source of livelihood.

So, we had to wait. From year to year; from Photokina exhibition to Photokina exhibition in Cologne. Nothing happened. Obviously, the new camera was still under construction.

Meanwhile, new Canons and Nikons came on markets equipped with more and more megapixels, often 16, 18, 21 or even 24 MP's and some other fantastic attachments.

And what did Leica? Leica talked and talked and talked; sometimes in interviews with heads of company, sometimes in talks with management, sometimes detailed, sometimes a little bit cryptic but always announcing a new digital camera as follower of world famous R-System. Beside these hopeful pointers no digital Leica-R camera was presented.

In one year we didn't sell any of our new fotos and that was the point when we bought a basic digital camera equipment produced by a far eastern company.

But then! The company has finished construction of the new digital DSLR and S-System was presented.Wow! Handling was fantastic! Megapixels were more than enough, but the price! What was that? Apart from that unrealistic amount of money, we missed the big tele-lenses. Offering a 180mm tele-lens is for us – sorry – mockery, pure mockery and nothing else. And what in future will these big apotelyt lenses cost? Adapters are not a really good solution. We need big lenses of 500mm or better 600mm for our fotos from some rare birds, for determination of ektoparasites of mammals and so on.

So we have been forced to leave Leica company, bought over years a complete equipment made by a far eastern company, having fun with photography again, enjoying results and, again selling some fotos successfully. Our new lenses are producing fantastic quality, resolving power is amazing and extreme details become visible. But we have to care them very, very carefully. Lenses, falling down from car roof need immediately an expensive treatment followed by a long lasting healing process. A second and a third camera are attending now our trips to nature. We miss robustness of our Leica equipment. However, overall we were heavily disappointed.

From beginning Leica-S-System came on markets, the propaganda and advertising was striking and remarkable.

First, when we visited Photokina exhibition to see the new camera we've been impressed: Leica directed attention to the fact these cameras were water proofed and could resist heavy rainfalls. They said the S equipment will inaugurate a new dimension in nature and sports photography. A total restart of outdoor photography has been opened for users and foto enthusiasts all over the world. Furthermore, for a small amount of money I could buy a special worldwide and global service indeed.

Imagine, in the Chaco of Paraguay or in rainforests of Brazil, in the middle of Namib desert or at coastlines of Southern Atlantic islands I could get a special service! Wonderful! This was the best idea I've ever heard. Or not?

At that moment I became leery. I hesitated following the company.

Sorry, but who is thinking such unrealistic ideas? That person obviously never took fotos in nature! And why a special service at all? Could it be, the S cameras revealed an unexpected susceptibility for damage unlike the indestructible R series?

Probably the Leica company noticed the contradiction and now changed the target group to photographers of fashion, art and architecture. On the other side, will these people really need a water resistant camera for photography mostly in studios?

Nevertheless, they changed target groups and instead nature and sports suddenly photographers of art and fashion were using expensive S-cameras; obviously the new target group. 180mm tele lenses are ok for these groups. Apparently sports and nature were down. They didn't offer a 500mm Apo-Telyt-S lens. And now, such a system should be a successor of Leica-R-System? Especially for photographers of sports and nature once the famous big telelenses of Apo-Modul-R-System were calculated and produced. Worldwide these lenses have proved themselves; expensive, but worth each single dollar. And now? No big tele-lens S. No further support of R-System.

So, I think Leica didn't know what to do with that camera from beginning. Which target group? Which photographer? I suppose the S-System was a financial loss for the company. I really don't know that, I think so. Sometimes we still mourning about loss of Leica-R-System.

Anyhow, I hope very much, users and photographers of Leica S-System will not make experiences like we had with down and totally stopping of R-System. Meanwhile the company has finished any support and services for R-System. Not even batteries are offered for the Digital-Modul-R.

For the new mirrorless S-System Leica has to recalculate and produce new lenses. There is no other way. So, perhaps, you should be a little bit more realistic when talking about futures of S-System. Telling my own story and experiences I want to prevent you from disappointments when mirrorless S-System will be released. Anyway, with all my heart I wish expectetions of readers will coming true totally. 

Have always right light, enjoy your fotos, have a nice and peaceful christmas and a happy new year.

Dikdik

PS: sorry for my clumsy English. It's not my native language.

When the R was formally discontinued ( I was at that meeting)  a replacement was promised by Mr Daniel. It turned out to be the S series. So it was basically an apology design. Since then Leica never really knew where to position it in the market. In fact, the real R replacement is the SL. Having similar requirements as the poster above, I find that it is more than an equal to the R. Mount a Sigma 60-600 and you have a superb quality weather proof versatile expedition camera that can -metaphorically- be used to fight off bears or hammer tent pegs as well. And it takes R lenses. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[cirofrankschiappa]

3 hours ago, irenedp said:

That sounds enticing. I use a Mamiya shift 50 and the 120 t/s and neither is all that easy. Something in body like the Cambo or the Phase XT would be nice. 

Hi, did you try the Hasselblad hts 1.5? I’ve tried with the hcd 28mm the Hc 35mm and 50mm II and works really Well. Would like to,try the 24mm / hope soon.