Guest Bernd Banken Posted November 21, 2007 Share #21 Posted November 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) A pretty waitress at the cafe that I go to for breakfast every morning told me that rather huffily that another customer told her that I took some pictures of her the day before. I answered that I hadn't really been taken pictures of her but hat she just happened to be in the pictures; and she said, "Oh, you were taking pictures of the cafe, then. Can you bring them so that I can see them?" I told her that I had already erased them because they weren't any good, which was true. A week later I joked, "So when are we going to take some pcitures?", which she took seriously and frowned. What's the point of this? I'm not sure, but it's always better when people have a sense of humour. This is the cafe: —Mitch/Paris Mitch Alland's slideshow on Flickr Mitch, a great shot! Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Hi Guest Bernd Banken, Take a look here Street Photography for a Shrinking Violet . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gdi Posted November 21, 2007 Share #22 Posted November 21, 2007 as usual there is heaps around Thank you Imants - this helps to point out the fact that there are two very different views on what constitutes "Street Photography"! I am no expert on the topic, but I know that I consider the result of the ask first, make friends, talk to them about the weather school to be more "Street Portraiture". Yes I have seen excellent shots from this approach, but it doesn't grab me as "Street Photography" - more like photography in the street. When I think of "Street Photography", I think of the shots like Mermelstein takes - intimate, un-posed, in-the-moment shots - no connecting with the subject, just shoot and move along. It was amazing to see him work, crouching in the person's face, shooting and moving on. I didn't see a single nod, wink or smile - no introductions or requests - but his demeanor is so disarming. He drifts smoothly around and in front of people, his camera clutched to his chest under his throat, looks directly at them, sees something, shoots... and no complaints! It is an absolutely different genre. I know it when I see It. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted November 21, 2007 Share #23 Posted November 21, 2007 Gareth - Here in the UK we are being treated to a fantastic BBC 6 part series called 'The Genius of Photography', if it comes your way - see it. Part four, last week, featured amongst others, John Gossage, Martin Parr, William Klein, Weegee, and a great film insert of Joel Meyerowitz doing high octane street shooting in New York. The most obvious observation on 'street' technique is that Meyerowitz was completely confident in himself and in no way threatening or intruding upon his passing subjects. He liberally employed a diversionary tactic well known to photographers; with your gaze and attention give the impression that you are photographically interested in anything but the very subject that most interests you. That skill, rather like a three card trick, may take some practice if it is alien to your normal work skills of showing attention to people you work with. I wouldn't wear a suit either, but there again I've never owned one. As a related aside, an advertising photographer friend assisted me photographing a friend's wedding and because of years of habit I had slipped into the 'diversionary' mode outlined above. He later confided that I had a habit of switching my gaze and unnecessarily appearing distant in the midst of shooting. A refined skill can appear a handicap in the wrong context and in this case I should have dropped my diversion technique in favour of one more outwardly assertive. The pictures would have been the same, but the impression would have been different. Good luck. ..................... Chris EDIT - Gareth, just found something for you. It's a master of three card trickery; Gary Winogrand on U Tube. About 2/3 of the way through he photographs women crossing the street and into his lens, but viewed from behind him we can tell that his diversionary attention is aimed behind the women, not directly at the women themselves. He's fast, but masterful: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Sanchez Posted November 21, 2007 Share #24 Posted November 21, 2007 having only scanned through most of the replies (cause i need to go to work soon), i'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but check out 2point8 website, particularly "ways of working." 2point8 » Ways of Working the site is dedicated to street photography, with tons of great interviews, tips, techniques, warnings, & interesting photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted November 21, 2007 Share #25 Posted November 21, 2007 Gareth, Give it a try for a while, but listen to your inner voice. Your discomfort may be a sign that it's just not for you. I've done enough street work to realize that for me personally it does feel like an invasion of privacy. Public events are one thing, but ordinary people going about their lives doesn't seem right to me. I'm not sure where the line is, but I can feel when I've crossed it, and I trust that feeling. And I would not publish on a web site an "unflattering" picture of a stranger without their consent. By that I mean an image that I think might offend the person, were they to see it. Again, just my personal values. Harris, to your question: I don't view it as a moral or ethical issue, but more simple courtesy and respect for others. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted November 21, 2007 Share #26 Posted November 21, 2007 ...And I would not publish on a web site an "unflattering" picture of a stranger without their consent. By that I mean an image that I think might offend the person, were they to see it...In my own photography I find that is very rare that I have pictures that fall in this category. Let's look at a few examples. In the picture below the man looking at the camera looks hostile, but he wasn't: The picture below shows the man and and woman in a way that they might consider "unflattering" if they were being photographed for a portrait, but they are not shown in an unflattering light: they're just walking on the street and I'm not looking down on them; hence, the "unflattering" is not a good test. Similarly, I find nothing wrong with the following: And here's one of my favourite street picture because, for me, it has the same feeling as a Munch painting (although not its quality) in expressing the loniless of living on a large city. If the woman saw it she might not like it, but she's on a public street, which means I'm not invading her privacy: The key to me is in the photographer's attitude: whether he is putting himself or herself above the the person being photographed and looking down on the subject, like the typical picture of a homeless person that is taken for no reason at all. I remember someone posting a picture here showing off his M8 of some poor people in Bangkok, which he labeled as "lowlifes": in that case there would have been nothing wrong with the picture without that condescending title. But, as I said, I find it's rare that I have to withhold showing a picture because how it shows the subject, for reasons of courtesy or respect. —Mitch/Paris Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted November 21, 2007 Share #27 Posted November 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think the biggest thing one has to ask oneself is "why?" Why am I doing this? If it's just to "pretend" then you are going to be self concious and awkward. If it's to do a "job" (ie put on a show, make a book, street photography is your life's work, whatever) then you will be much more comfortable. It's not for everyone. I'm known for my people pictures but I rarely shoot "street" photography except when I travel (I have a long term project on Vietnam going). You have to approach it as a job - the minute you leave the house your camera is out and you are at work. Not walking the dog, or on your way to a meeting, or picking up the kids etc etc. Because the great street pictures come from being a well oiled machine and taking LOTS of pictures. That's why travel (and/or workshops) can work so well for people - one doesn't have to deal with the everyday and can be constantly "on point" so to speak. And having a purpose can disarm the subject and open doors. "Oh, I'm doing a book on Vietnam...." Of course, that book may never materialize (it almost did at one point and then the publisher changed mind) but the subject doesn't know that. And in my mind it's made me always shoot as if it was a done deal. Telling people "I'm an artist" can go a long way as well - it's a license to shoot the obscure and gives people something to latch onto other than "Oh I'm just goofing around and want to take your picture." I'd probably tell ya to 'eff off as well. As the Buddhists teach, it all comes down to your intention. If your intention is good, sincere, and with a purpose then the subjects will have less of an issue whether you ever to speak to them or not. The vibe is picked up on. And if you can't/don't photograph your friends and family then what the heck are you doing photographing strangers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 21, 2007 Share #28 Posted November 21, 2007 Gareth, Give it a try for a while, but listen to your inner voice. Your discomfort may be a sign that it's just not for you. I've done enough street work to realize that for me personally it does feel like an invasion of privacy. Public events are one thing, but ordinary people going about their lives doesn't seem right to me. I'm not sure where the line is, but I can feel when I've crossed it, and I trust that feeling. And I would not publish on a web site an "unflattering" picture of a stranger without their consent. By that I mean an image that I think might offend the person, were they to see it. Again, just my personal values. Harris, to your question: I don't view it as a moral or ethical issue, but more simple courtesy and respect for others. John You feelings are never wrong. What is interesting often is finding the true source of feelings. I will leave that to you. I looked up the word "offend" which according to my dictionary comes from the Latin offendere which means "to strike out", in other words to offend or give offense is to somehow strike against another person. I think our modern understanding of that word is similar, but we might not know how severe it is. Contrast that with "unflattering", the opposite of "flatter," or as the dictionary says to flatter is "to give an unrealistically favourable impression of" which is interesting, or "to make someone feel more attractive, honored or pleased". Offense and photography are often linked, especially with respect to sexual images or images of war, and flattery and photography are inextricably linked. It is fascinating that a photograph can do both, possibly simultaneously, which leads me to believe photographs themselves are mute, and we are doing most of the heavy lifting. I think there is a wide gulf between to offend and to flatter. I think my appreciation of street photography before I understood my own feelings about it ranged between these poles. Now I feel I was mostly projecting my own feelings and people, real people, always have their own individuality and can feel however they wish. There feelings are beyond my control, although I can always seek to understand them. The photograph itself is neutral. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 21, 2007 Share #29 Posted November 21, 2007 Lots of good stuff here, I will check out the links when I have more time. Just a couple of points.. If street photography is 'illegal' and you need permission before photographing someone in public then what about CCTV? I'm photographed this way hundreds of times every day, by public and private CCTV cameras. Has anyone asked me first if it's OK? Wearing a suit....it helps to blend in. If I pop out at lunch time with my camera (I work in the City of London) I can take photo's pretty much un-noticed. Every one else is in a suit too. I wouldn't wear a suit if I went out to take photos on the beach, in the park, or around a football match say.....this one I took during a previous world cup, fans piling out of the pubs after the match. I wore my football shirt so I was just one of them, but with a camera. I was trying to be discrete taking candids then one guy shouted 'camera' and they all formed a line to pose. If I looked like a journo I think I would have been lynched!! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/38537-street-photography-for-a-shrinking-violet/?do=findComment&comment=408475'>More sharing options...
SnapperJ Posted November 21, 2007 Share #30 Posted November 21, 2007 I think street photos can be made in a lot of different ways: 1. A subject who is involved in something will not see you. 2. Photograph from a low viewpoint, do not have any eye contact. 3. Photograph from behind the subject. 4. Ask the subject. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapperJ Posted November 21, 2007 Share #31 Posted November 21, 2007 5. Let the subject walk into the frame. 6. You get what I am saying..................many ways Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted November 21, 2007 Share #32 Posted November 21, 2007 Thirtyfive years ago the word "streetphotography" didn't exist so did the internet. For me this typee of photography was a way of exploring the big cities and not the wish to make pics as a daily target. So drifting through Amsterdam, Paris or London was very comfortable and as a young guy of twentyfive I had everything except money:D so my NikonF (THE 'nam camera) and two cheap lenses was all to carry around. My pics are easily to devide in two categories: portraits and only some few with THE hook in the contend itself. Those rare shots had been the kisses of angels but this I recognized after decades... Meeting people and making pics was some special kind of communication between the persons and me, sometimes without words but with strong contacts by the eyes. The camera was allways visible and noisy, nothing to compare with a M3:rolleyes: Sometimes there was only one shot and sometimes a few circling around the object to get the best background if possible. The hardest thing for me was to start at this point when I stopped at those times. A strange feeling to carry a camera in places where now sightseeing tourist are hanging around. I was very disappointed because I lost the feeling and the swing of those times. My mood had no softness to "feel" the moment or the situation. Coming closer to persons was very difficult and I was forced to learn again or give up these kind of shots. Some kind of experiment for me and big pressure looking at my old pics. But then it came back, very light but there was it again on a lower level I guess but it's ok for me. Here some few shots of portraits and hooked up: First pic is my very first with the F: Thanks for spending your time to follow my thoughts:) Bernd Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/38537-street-photography-for-a-shrinking-violet/?do=findComment&comment=408528'>More sharing options...
gesper Posted November 21, 2007 Share #33 Posted November 21, 2007 It does no good to sneak photos of people. I think there is room for both, but I prefer pictures where the subject is not affected by the fact that there is a camera present. This doesn't mean that you can't talk to them afterwards or even first if you then wait long enough for them to more or less forget you are there. To me, "street photography" is about capturing somethng that actually happened on its own, without me doing anything to cause any part of it. Otherwise I might as well position the subjects, arrange the lighting, even hire models, etc., which of course if fine for others who do it quite successfully. As for "sneaking" pictures, Walker Evans hid his camera in his coat with a shutter release down his sleeve. Paul Strand went so far as to put a fake lens on the side of his early view camera to make his subjects think he was photographing something else. I dont go that far, but I do try to be as unobtusive as possible. To each his/her own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 21, 2007 Share #34 Posted November 21, 2007 Indeed it's not about 'sneaking' its about your subject not being aware. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/38537-street-photography-for-a-shrinking-violet/?do=findComment&comment=408627'>More sharing options...
michael friedberg Posted November 22, 2007 Share #35 Posted November 22, 2007 I frequently don't take the camera up to my eye. Rather, I like use semi-wide angle lenses (21mm Zeiss or 28/2.8 Leica ASPH) set to hyperfocal distance. The first shot, below, was taken with the camera on the table at a cafe. I tried moving it around slightly since I couldn't frame the image well. Also, I sometimes shoot with the camera at waist or chest level. I essentially aim by pointing my body. However, the second shot was taken from a doorway at eye level --I wasn't out in the open and "in your face" relative to the subjects;. But it was a grab shot that then was cropped.I like the fact that 10 MP images are large enough to be cropped and still produce reasonable prints. I think the woman in the yellow sweater noticed me, but wasn't going to make an issue of some crazy photographer. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/38537-street-photography-for-a-shrinking-violet/?do=findComment&comment=408693'>More sharing options...
milyovsky Posted November 22, 2007 Share #36 Posted November 22, 2007 I have always preferred Cartier-Bresson's method, "Never ask permission, just shoot and scram." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drstefanlenz Posted November 22, 2007 Share #37 Posted November 22, 2007 I have always preferred Cartier-Bresson's method, "Never ask permission, just shoot and scram." yes, except that there are strict laws here in germany that grand people the right of their own picture. from this i am not allowed to take pictures in a portrait way. and many street pics shown here are like this. the law is like i am even not allowed to show them to my wife. publishing them, like on internet, is absolutely illegal. i am often very surprised of seeing so many pics on the net like this, also in here. of course, sticking to this rules you can never take true pics like HCB. nevertheless, it is not so easy. i like streetphotgraphy, but do not like for example wild tourists in the alps taking pics of me with their tele when i am going up the slope of a mountain with my racing bike. or when i walk the city with my little children and people come to take pics of them. for me this is very offending. then, we have responsibillitly. just because we trick them and congratuklate ourselves that they do not notice doesn´t make it more right. i agree pictures like that ones of 9/11 are important. i guess a godd photgrapher has to have a grownand wise personality to find the right thin line between them extremes regards stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 22, 2007 Share #38 Posted November 22, 2007 Stefan you have been successfully brainwashed.......you may leave the cardboard box at your own will. Congratulations and remember do not break any more rules. WARNING! Next time you may not be so lucky:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 22, 2007 Share #39 Posted November 22, 2007 I would suggest starting out at events where people expect to be photographed. A street fair, demonstration, parade, concert etc. Locations swarming with tourists are also good. No one is going to pay attention to another person with a camera. Under these circumstances your subjects are less likely to freak out on you and it will give you some breathing room to build confidence and gain experience. For the most part I would forget about the whole asking permission thing. Shoot and scoot works best for most situations. Once you gain experience many people will never know you took their picture. Learn how to judge exposure and master scale focusing. Preset everything before you lift the camera to take the shot. Remember that in street photography critical focus isn't of paramount importance. If you look closely at HCB's prints you will learn that many of them are barely in focus. A 50mm will let you get close enough for a intimate composition, while allowing you to stay right on the boundary of most people's 'personal space". And never forget Capa's motto: "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough." Capa meant that both in the physical and spiritual sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 22, 2007 Share #40 Posted November 22, 2007 yes, except that there are strict laws here in germany that grand people the right of their own picture. from this i am not allowed to take pictures in a portrait way. and many street pics shown here are like this. the law is like i am even not allowed to show them to my wife. publishing them, like on internet, is absolutely illegal. i am often very surprised of seeing so many pics on the net like this, also in here. of course, sticking to this rules you can never take true pics like HCB. nevertheless, it is not so easy. i like streetphotgraphy, but do not like for example wild tourists in the alps taking pics of me with their tele when i am going up the slope of a mountain with my racing bike. or when i walk the city with my little children and people come to take pics of them. for me this is very offending. then, we have responsibillitly. just because we trick them and congratuklate ourselves that they do not notice doesn´t make it more right. i agree pictures like that ones of 9/11 are important. i guess a godd photgrapher has to have a grownand wise personality to find the right thin line between them extremes regards stefan Hold on a second. When did Germany turn in to France? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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