First impressions comparing M11P and M10R

[JoshuaR]

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On 10/17/2024 at 12:51 PM, setuporg said:

It’s interesting to reread this as I just got the M11-D a week ago, a bit under a year since the M11-P, both at launch.  Now with the M11-P experience the M11-D seems an easy choice.  M10-R, although dreamy and with a better Leica look, has not seen much use.  I hope to still change that and do more pair shoots.  It still does not feel right to sell the M10R+M combo.  It’s destined to be the last classic.

I’ve actually reread this thread multiple times recently, because I’ve been wondering about trading in my M10-R and M10M for an M11-D. I finally went to the Leica store today to try out one of the D models in person. Conclusions: it’s a beautiful camera, but I’m sticking with my two Ms. I think…..

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[o2mpx]

@setuporg, appreciate you starting this thread as I’ve learned much from the posts. 
 
Definitely feel the M10-R is a keeper, but have been thinking about adding a M11-P. Similar to other posts, have added the SL, then SL2(twice) but decided not to pursue the line given the bulk and weight of native lenses, but retaining the SL2 body only for use with M lenses.

Curious from purely a resolution perspective, have you noticed a difference between the 2 sensors?

In the mean time, did add the X2D, and it’s a keeper. Added a 2 zoom Sony A7CR for lightweight travel and occasional use as the Sony color isn’t as desirable relative to Leica and HB colors. 

Perhaps will wait until whatever Leica have in store for the anniversary, as more better priced used M10-P’s might come to the market. 
 

 

[username]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:28 PM, setuporg said:

I had M10R since its launch and finally got a member of the M11 family, M11P, on its own launch day.  Walked about today with an Leica 35 APO on the M11P and a CV 35 APO Lanthar on the M10R.

..this thread was a worthwhile read, yet I would have loved to actually see some pictures comapring the output of the two cameras 🙂

[Smudgerer]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:39 AM, o2mpx said:

@setuporg, appreciate you starting this thread as I’ve learned much from the posts. 
 
Definitely feel the M10-R is a keeper, but have been thinking about adding a M11-P. Similar to other posts, have added the SL, then SL2(twice) but decided not to pursue the line given the bulk and weight of native lenses, but retaining the SL2 body only for use with M lenses.

Curious from purely a resolution perspective, have you noticed a difference between the 2 sensors?

In the mean time, did add the X2D, and it’s a keeper. Added a 2 zoom Sony A7CR for lightweight travel and occasional use as the Sony color isn’t as desirable relative to Leica and HB colors. 

Perhaps will wait until whatever Leica have in store for the anniversary, as more better priced used M10-P’s might come to the market. 
 

 

Not really sure if this answers you but I now have a M10-P, a M10-R, a M10-M and new to me as of last month a M11-D............Realistically that's too many digital M's, my film M's number six bodies M2 to M6 re-issue, but that's another story.........The M11-D is too recent to get rid of, I am going to keep the M10-P and the M10-M and sell the M10-R. Why sell the M10-R rather than the lower resolution M10-P?........Well it's down to the "look" of the files, I just prefer the 24mp sensor despite the lower DR compared with the M10-R, and even now with the M11-D I am finding I like the look of it's 18mp files and see no reason yet to pick the higher resolution options. The M10-M will stay, that's a classic.

[PhQtQgraphy]

I sold my M10-P last year when I bought an SL2S because as a hobby photographer with other (expensive) hobbies and a family it‘s just crazy to afford a M and SL system at the same time.  But ever since I‘ve missed my M and now I find myself in the market for a „new“ M. Call me crazy.

I‘ve seen a nice M10-P Reporter displayed in a shop for 5.8k. But they also have an M10-R for 5.2k. And I could get a M11 for 5.3k. All used but in good shape. So I found this thread here amongst others discussing M10-R vs M11.. I don‘t know these two cameras from personal experience.

I love the look of the Reporter. And it‘s a limited edition camera. The M10-P basically is all I need. But since I could get a newer M for less, why not go that way?! Classic looks over technical innovation or vice versa?

The M11 has that better batterylife, the electronic shutter that allows me to shoot a Summilux wide open in bright sunshine (why is nobody ever talking about that?), it‘s lighter and has the same menu as the SL2S. I‘m worried though, that the higher resolution leads to shorter shutter speeds, since there is no IBIS. I could only use the 36 or 18 mp and only use the full 60mp for landscape shots on a tripod. 

It‘s crazy, that I could get the newest of the three for the same price or even less than the limited M10-P. 

I will buy a 50mm Summilux ASPH and a 28mm Summicron along with the „new“ body. That‘s all I need for the pictures I take with the M. It‘s all about fun, a passion, a challenge, something I‘ve learned a long time ago as a kid with a Nikon film camera. I‘m not selling (not anymore) my pictures. I don‘t need higher resolution. But some of the M11 features still would be appreciated. The M10-R is somewhere in between (technically) but I don‘t see anything standing out about this camera. Except for the colors that I seem to like better than the M10-P. 

The perfect M doesn‘t exist yet..  

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, PhQtQgraphy said:

I sold my M10-P last year when I bought an SL2S because as a hobby photographer with other (expensive) hobbies and a family it‘s just crazy to afford a M and SL system at the same time.  But ever since I‘ve missed my M and now I find myself in the market for a „new“ M. Call me crazy.

I‘ve seen a nice M10-P Reporter displayed in a shop for 5.8k. But they also have an M10-R for 5.2k. And I could get a M11 for 5.3k. All used but in good shape. So I found this thread here amongst others discussing M10-R vs M11.. I don‘t know these two cameras from personal experience.

I love the look of the Reporter. And it‘s a limited edition camera. The M10-P basically is all I need. But since I could get a newer M for less, why not go that way?! Classic looks over technical innovation or vice versa?

The M11 has that better batterylife, the electronic shutter that allows me to shoot a Summilux wide open in bright sunshine (why is nobody ever talking about that?), it‘s lighter and has the same menu as the SL2S. I‘m worried though, that the higher resolution leads to shorter shutter speeds, since there is no IBIS. I could only use the 36 or 18 mp and only use the full 60mp for landscape shots on a tripod. 

It‘s crazy, that I could get the newest of the three for the same price or even less than the limited M10-P. 

I will buy a 50mm Summilux ASPH and a 28mm Summicron along with the „new“ body. That‘s all I need for the pictures I take with the M. It‘s all about fun, a passion, a challenge, something I‘ve learned a long time ago as a kid with a Nikon film camera. I‘m not selling (not anymore) my pictures. I don‘t need higher resolution. But some of the M11 features still would be appreciated. The M10-R is somewhere in between (technically) but I don‘t see anything standing out about this camera. Except for the colors that I seem to like better than the M10-P. 

The perfect M doesn‘t exist yet..  

The M10-P Reporter is a stunner. Honestly, I would avoid a used M11 unless the seller will let you exchange it without a restocking fee within 30 days should you start having issues. The latest firmware has fixed most all the issues with the M11, but some early M11 units may have hardware issues causing freezes even under the latest firmware. If I were you, I would buy only one lens and use the extra money to get a new M11-P. If not, then I would go for the Reporter. 

Edit: the M11-P Reporter should come out in 2025 if you can wait that long.

Edited November 11, 2024 by hdmesa

[caloosajo]

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2 hours ago, PhQtQgraphy said:

I sold my M10-P last year when I bought an SL2S because as a hobby photographer with other (expensive) hobbies and a family it‘s just crazy to afford a M and SL system at the same time.  But ever since I‘ve missed my M and now I find myself in the market for a „new“ M. Call me crazy.

I‘ve seen a nice M10-P Reporter displayed in a shop for 5.8k. But they also have an M10-R for 5.2k. And I could get a M11 for 5.3k. All used but in good shape. So I found this thread here amongst others discussing M10-R vs M11.. I don‘t know these two cameras from personal experience.

I love the look of the Reporter. And it‘s a limited edition camera. The M10-P basically is all I need. But since I could get a newer M for less, why not go that way?! Classic looks over technical innovation or vice versa?

The M11 has that better batterylife, the electronic shutter that allows me to shoot a Summilux wide open in bright sunshine (why is nobody ever talking about that?), it‘s lighter and has the same menu as the SL2S. I‘m worried though, that the higher resolution leads to shorter shutter speeds, since there is no IBIS. I could only use the 36 or 18 mp and only use the full 60mp for landscape shots on a tripod. 

It‘s crazy, that I could get the newest of the three for the same price or even less than the limited M10-P. 

I will buy a 50mm Summilux ASPH and a 28mm Summicron along with the „new“ body. That‘s all I need for the pictures I take with the M. It‘s all about fun, a passion, a challenge, something I‘ve learned a long time ago as a kid with a Nikon film camera. I‘m not selling (not anymore) my pictures. I don‘t need higher resolution. But some of the M11 features still would be appreciated. The M10-R is somewhere in between (technically) but I don‘t see anything standing out about this camera. Except for the colors that I seem to like better than the M10-P. 

The perfect M doesn‘t exist yet..  

You are not crazy! I am in a similar boat: family and fancy hobbies leading to switching my digital body from M11 to SL2-S—now yearning for a digital M for my ride-or-die 28cron/50lux combo. Weighing whether to keep SL2-S and add M10M vs going after M11-P or -D. All while staring at my Chamonix 4x5 gathering dust…

[PhQtQgraphy]

29 minutes ago, caloosajo said:

You are not crazy! I am in a similar boat: family and fancy hobbies leading to switching my digital body from M11 to SL2-S—now yearning for a digital M for my ride-or-die 28cron/50lux combo. Weighing whether to keep SL2-S and add M10M vs going after M11-P or -D. All while staring at my Chamonix 4x5 gathering dust…

I sold my SL and bought a Nikon Zf. It's so much cheaper, brilliant Camera, much smaller and lighter and almost feels as my old Nikon film camera (was my mom's camera that got me into photography and she gave it to me). 

So I saved some money that way to spend for a M. 

Really appreciate the two inputs above. The M11 for 5.3k is from a private seller (incl viso2, grip, halfcase, thumbie 🙃). That price is almost too good. A second one is available for 6.1k incl Leica warranty until July 25. Leica store Zürich (30mins away) has some for almost 7k used. I'll have a look if I find a M11-P. But a new one is probably more than what I'd like to spend.

The M10-R for 5.2k is from the Leica store oncl 1yr warranty.

[Derbyshire Man]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The M10-P Reporter is a stunner. Honestly, I would avoid a used M11 unless the seller will let you exchange it without a restocking fee within 30 days should you start having issues. The latest firmware has fixed most all the issues with the M11, but some early M11 units may have hardware issues causing freezes even under the latest firmware. If I were you, I would buy only one lens and use the extra money to get a new M11-P. If not, then I would go for the Reporter. 

Edit: the M11-P Reporter should come out in 2025 if you can wait that long.

We don't really know that about the M11 do we? surely that is just supposition which is a bit unfair on every M11 owner out there? Not trying to be a nuisance and I haven't got an M11 vanilla, just an M11P, M11M and M11D. I'd be amazed if there was any difference in the 'innards'.

[hdmesa]

43 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

We don't really know that about the M11 do we? surely that is just supposition which is a bit unfair on every M11 owner out there? Not trying to be a nuisance and I haven't got an M11 vanilla, just an M11P, M11M and M11D. I'd be amazed if there was any difference in the 'innards'.

I was saying what I would do. How is that unfair? M11 owners can sell their cameras anywhere. But if I still had an early production M11, I would never sell it to someone person-to-person based on several copies of them that I owned, but that’s just me.

[Derbyshire Man]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I was saying what I would do. How is that unfair? M11 owners can sell their cameras anywhere. But if I still had an early production M11, I would never sell it to someone person-to-person based on several copies of them that I owned, but that’s just me.

Not what you'd do, the claim about the hardware. Unless you've heard something official.

[hdmesa]

25 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Not what you'd do, the claim about the hardware. Unless you've heard something official.

All I can tell you is I had five M11s. First one had a misaligned rangefinder. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th had freezes that were frequent enough that they weren't usable. 5th one was a later model, and even with an earlier version of the firmware, it did not have frequent freezes. My M11M also did not have issues. My current M11-D doesn't have issues.

So that's anecdotal of course, but what other reasonable data points to we have? We know from posts on this forum that we're seeing people coming here with used M11s with issues that are not resolved with the current firmware. We also have reports of M11s with issues that have been fixed by hardware repair by Leica.

All I said about the M11 hardware is quoted below, and I hardly think it's some sort of dramatic sweeping statement. I said early M11s may have issues, not that they will have issues.

Quote

...but some early M11 units may have hardware issues...

 

[Derbyshire Man]

Thanks hdmesa for the clarification. It does depend on the emphasis within the full sentence, it is quite possible to read it as a statement of fact, I agree it is a possibility.

I wonder how many people have 'early' M11's that haven't been sorted by the most recent firmware? Would be interesting to know.

DOI: One day I may wish to sell my M11P, M11M and M11D all of which are well behaved, possibly without taking the large hit involved in selling through a retailer!

[PhQtQgraphy]

I‘ve been at a Leica Store today and had a M11 in my hands for the first time. Took some shots and really don‘t understand, why people were confused about the shutter. I know how it‘s technically working and what the differences to M10-Series are. I don‘t feel any difference. I didn‘t notice any lag. Nothing. So Leica obviously did a good job updating the firmware of the camera. I simply had an M in my hands (had a M9, M240, M-P240, M10, M10-P before), nothing odd or different. I even managed to get sharp pictures at 1/60s with the 50mm Lux. Didn‘t expect that. Sure, 1/125s is better, but 1/60 is possible too.

 

So.. long story short: I bought a silver Demo M11 with 3 yrs of warranty and a „pre-owned“ silver 50mm Summilux ASPH with 1 yr warranty. Lucky me. 

 

 

[Derbyshire Man]

May you live happily ever after (unless you upgrade later of course)🤣

[T I N O]

Thank you for the interesting thread @setuporg 👍

Would you (or anybody else who shot both a M10-R as well as the M11) reckon that you need a shutter speed one stop faster to archieve critical sharpness with the M11's higher resolution sensor? As in: if you're able to hand-hold 1/60 with a 50mm on the M10-R and get a sharp image, you do need 1/125 on the M11, yes?

Also how do the high ISO files compare between the two (how much improvement has there been, like one stop as well? Is ISO 6400 on the M11 comparable to 3200 on the M10-R)?

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, T I N O said:

Thank you for the interesting thread @setuporg 👍

Would you (or anybody else who shot both a M10-R as well as the M11) reckon that you need a shutter speed one stop faster to archieve critical sharpness with the M11's higher resolution sensor? As in: if you're able to hand-hold 1/60 with a 50mm on the M10-R and get a sharp image, you do need 1/125 on the M11, yes?

Also how do the high ISO files compare between the two (how much improvement has there been, like one stop as well? Is ISO 6400 on the M11 comparable to 3200 on the M10-R)?

High ISO is better on the M11 but not enough to upgrade, IMO. There are tests out there you can find.

There's a loooong thread here about sharpness with the M11 – as there always is every time the resolution increases. If you view the images at the same magnification, there's no difference. If you compare them at 1:1 pixel level, then the M11 often needs a faster shutter speed. I've always set my M11 cameras to a max time of 1/125 sec., which is about where I set my previous M10-R. With the M10-P, I could get away with 1/60 sec. in most situations.

[setuporg]

I’ve not done these comparisons… would be interesting.  Not a pixel peeper to this level, but a good question for Reid Reviews.:)

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Hallo,

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[T I N O]

Thank you both for your feedback✌️

I guess I was not looking for an uber-scientific / Sean Reid level pixel-peeping answer to the question @setuporg -
but rather for a real life / "for all intents and purposes" kinda feedback, from people who have actually been using the two camera models like you.

It's interesting to hear you apparently needed to step-up from 1/60 to 1/125 going from the 24MP M10-P to the 40MP M10-R @hdmesa - but were able to stay there with the 60MP M11.

Edited November 16, 2024 by T I N O

[setuporg]

I've not noticed any blur on M11P/D.  However its default has changed from 1/2f to 1/4f for shutter speed.  So it knows something.:)