First impressions comparing M11P and M10R

[setuporg]

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I had M10R since its launch and finally got a member of the M11 family, M11P, on its own launch day.  Walked about today with an Leica 35 APO on the M11P and a CV 35 APO Lanthar on the M10R.

I grew used to the fact that M11P stapler makes a sound when ready.  M10R just lights up after an unpredictable delay.  The stapler sound is now satisfying, M10R is quieter.  It’s weird how M10R is just silently ready.

The inversion of Play/Live View (Fn) buttons is weird, M11P is better.

The grippy black M11P body is much more solid in hand.  But the classic silver M10R I have with the base plate is more zen.  I’ve also handled M10M I got on its own launch day to compare and the black of the M10M is darker and better looking with both black chrome and BP lenses.

The higher res LCD looks much better on M11P, after that M10R resembles M9.

Exposure varies wildly. Sometimes M11P overexposes, sometimes M10R.  The multi-field metering clearly is at work/fault.:). Will get home and look at the photos.

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[Crem]

I agree with everything you said about the M11 except for the satisfying M11 sound. I never found it satisfying. It isn't annoying, but it is a bit of a downgrade from the M10-P/R/D. I'm curious, if you had to sell one, which one would you pick? Would it be a difficult decision?

I ended up selling my M11 and I kept the M10-R (and added a M10-D!). For the longest time I debated which one I prefer (M11 or M10-R). I kept asking myself: which one would I sell if I had to? For me that ended up being the M11. Not because I had to sell it, but more because I didn't feel any loss doing so. The M10-R & M10-D are long term keepers for me. For whatever reason I never felt that way about the M11.

[setuporg]

11 minutes ago, Crem said:

if you had to sell one, which one would you pick? Would it be a difficult decision?

So as some folks here know, I’ve not been swept off my feet by the M11 when it launched.  I’ve waited until the P.  Added an X2D in the interim.  For whatever reason, the winds of change blew in, and M11P felt like the right addition, especially with an M 35 APO I was able to get on the same day.  The geotagging and content credentials seem fun, geotagging really useful as it just works.

The M10R and M10M pair I have seem to become the last classics.  I wish I had a BP version but it does not justify the price anymore, and the M10R took so many great pictures.  My approach to selling is simple, don’t, unless you absolutely have to:). I’ll keep the M10R as both its own “film” and a companion to the M10M.  Eg if I am to take both a color and a monochrom cameras I’d take that combo on a trip to share batteries and chargers.

But realistically M11P is the color Leica of choice now.  What I do often is to take another one, like M9P or Edition 60, and carry them for a week or so.  Every single camera gets substantial air time.  You have to walk them like dogs.

[setuporg]

OK got home, ingested photos, and boy, M10R looks better OOC.  The M11P is generally overexposed, or looks lighter.  It errs on preserving blacks while M10R seems more balanced and whites are not overblown.  Hmm!  How do I bring the exposure down in such cases?  

[hjddd]

9 minutes ago, setuporg said:

好的回到家，摄取照片，天哪，M10R 看起来更好 OOC。M11P普遍曝光过度，或者看起来更亮。它在保留黑色方面犯了错误，而 M10R 似乎更平衡，白色也没有过度夸张。唔！在这种情况下如何降低曝光？  

yes。 the M11P always put more light （overexposed）in the photos 。 I have to keep it -1/3 or -2/3 step

[colint544]

4 hours ago, setuporg said:

OK got home, ingested photos, and boy, M10R looks better OOC.  The M11P is generally overexposed, or looks lighter.  It errs on preserving blacks while M10R seems more balanced and whites are not overblown.  Hmm!  How do I bring the exposure down in such cases?  

I've found there to be a bit of a learning curve with the M11. There is a known problem - when shooting in auto - of occasional frames being wildly over-exposed. I generally have minus two thirds of a stop dialled in, and I use the highlight-weighted metering, although I don't shoot in auto very often. I find auto ISO to be so unreliable it's unusable. The exposure is all over the place, but mostly it's way overexposed. It's a real shame.

I see that there is a new firmware upgrade just announced. Not looked into that yet, but hopefully it will move the M11 closer to the reliable camera it deserves to be. I'm patient, and I'm sure that Leica will get there. I have an M9M which I've owned since 2012. It's as reliable as an anvil, I completely trust it, but when it was new, it suffered from weird quirks and unreliability. Leica stood by that camera, they gradually fixed the issues with firmware upgrades, and replaced the corroding sensor for free, when the camera was three years out of warranty. That bought a lot of goodwill. I wouldn't have purchased the M11 if Leica had abandoned me with an unreliable camera all those years ago.

And I also like the stapler sound. Good luck with your M11P. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by colint544

[darylgo]

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On 11/28/2023 at 11:06 AM, setuporg said:

You have to walk them like dogs.

LOL

Please ascribe a breed to each model, especially interested in the M60 🙂   

The M11 and 35mm Apo would be my perfect pairing, I have neither, any thoughts on your experience?  

Enjoy your new dog and lens.  

[setuporg]

On 11/29/2023 at 6:16 PM, darylgo said:

LOL

Please ascribe a breed to each model, especially interested in the M60 🙂   

The M11 and 35mm Apo would be my perfect pairing, I have neither, any thoughts on your experience?  

Enjoy your new dog and lens.  

The M11P and 35 APO seem made for each other.  My most used combo now.

[darylgo]

33 minutes ago, setuporg said:

The M11P and 35 APO seem made for each other.  My most used combo now.

After taking a deep dive into 35mm lenses they are all in the process of being sold and living with 2 (gasp), the 35 Apo and 35 Steel Rim reissue.  With Leica's anniversary of something next year (anniversaries are plentiful with Leica) the rumors are there will be many new items released, so my pairing will be with a M10-R and I'll be waiting to see what develops with the M system on this very important anniversary of something.  

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, darylgo said:

After taking a deep dive into 35mm lenses they are all in the process of being sold and living with 2 (gasp), the 35 Apo and 35 Steel Rim reissue.  With Leica's anniversary of something next year (anniversaries are plentiful with Leica) the rumors are there will be many new items released, so my pairing will be with a M10-R and I'll be waiting to see what develops with the M system on this very important anniversary of something.  

I'd not sell the 35 Lux and I almost got the SR but folks said the Titanium renders better/closer to the original so there's that.:)

[darylgo]

5 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I'd not sell the 35 Lux and I almost got the SR but folks said the Titanium renders better/closer to the original so there's that.:)

I've heard that also about the Titanium, a lens that I should have owned from the 1990's when I purchased an M6 Titanium.  The seller, a long time Leica dealer I had known many years told me I should buy the lens (he almost took me by the collar and shook me telling me to buy it) but I wasn't savvy and didn't listen....big mistake.  

[tom0511]

I really liked both cameras.

For me the biggest advantages of the M11 are the improved metering, the bigger new EVF, the battery and usb loading.

I still find this camera needs to long to be ready for shooting when switched on.

I also like the lower weight of the black M11. Personally I would be happy with either one (including the original M10) but the M11 is my slightly preferred choice.

 

[Pixeleater]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:06 AM, setuporg said:

So as some folks here know, I’ve not been swept off my feet by the M11 when it launched.  I’ve waited until the P.  Added an X2D in the interim.  For whatever reason, the winds of change blew in, and M11P felt like the right addition, especially with an M 35 APO I was able to get on the same day.  The geotagging and content credentials seem fun, geotagging really useful as it just works.

The M10R and M10M pair I have seem to become the last classics.  I wish I had a BP version but it does not justify the price anymore, and the M10R took so many great pictures.  My approach to selling is simple, don’t, unless you absolutely have to:). I’ll keep the M10R as both its own “film” and a companion to the M10M.  Eg if I am to take both a color and a monochrom cameras I’d take that combo on a trip to share batteries and chargers.

But realistically M11P is the color Leica of choice now.  What I do often is to take another one, like M9P or Edition 60, and carry them for a week or so.  Every single camera gets substantial air time.  You have to walk them like dogs.

Well, until Leica solves the firmware issue that seems to dog the M11, I’ll remain on the sideline walking my well-mannered M10R.  

[RF’sDelight]

Design wise the M11-P in chrome is the camera I was waiting for since the M11 was introduced. And the premium you have to pay to get the P-Version is even less than I would have expected.

Since I don't want to hoard digital Leica Ms one of my three remaining M10s (pictured below) would have to leave for an M11-P.  But… reading all across the forum I can't find this sort of overwhelmingness about the IQ which would make me swap one of these (quintessential) M10s for the M11-P.

So everyone here who can do a direct file comparison between the M10-R and M11(-P) please do so! It would help me a lot. 😁 Thank you and happy holidays!

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Edited December 21, 2023 by RF’sDelight

[Overgaard]

19 minutes ago, RF’sDelight said:

Design wise the M11-P in chrome is the camera I was waiting for since the M11 was introduced. And the premium you have to pay to get the P-Version is even less than I would have expected.

Since I don't want to hoard digital Leica Ms one of my three remaining M10s (pictured below) would have to leave for an M11-P.  But… reading all across the forum I can't find this sort of overwhelmingness about the IQ which would make me swap one of these (quintessential) M10s for the M11-P.

So everyone here who can do a direct file comparison between the M10-R and M11(-P) please do so! It would help me a lot. 😁 Thank you and happy holidays!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Oh, M10-D and M10-R Black Paint. Those can never go ...

[RF’sDelight]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Overgaard:

Oh, M10-D and M10-R Black Paint. Those can never go ...

True. 😎 Thank you Thorsten!
God jul, Lars

[Smudgerer]

35 minutes ago, RF’sDelight said:

Design wise the M11-P in chrome is the camera I was waiting for since the M11 was introduced. And the premium you have to pay to get the P-Version is even less than I would have expected.

Since I don't want to hoard digital Leica Ms one of my three remaining M10s (pictured below) would have to leave for an M11-P.  But… reading all across the forum I can't find this sort of overwhelmingness about the IQ which would make me swap one of these (quintessential) M10s for the M11-P.

So everyone here who can do a direct file comparison between the M10-R and M11(-P) please do so! It would help me a lot. 😁 Thank you and happy holidays!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

With the exception of a black paint M10-R, ( I'm one of the few oddities who prefer black chrome M's to BP finish ), I've the same black chrome threesome as you have here and I cannot think of one justifiable reason to upgrade, certainly not for the M11 variants which seem to have a host of niggling problems that in reading these posts on the 11 are boarding on the sad through annoying to ridiculous. I'm happy not to be one of those owners being pecked to death by ducks...........But if Leica took a step "backward" and came out with a 24-36mp M with vastly simplified electronic options, and keeping the mechanical shutter, then that would interest, but of course it will not happen as it pushes onwards and upwards into the electronic fog.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Smudgerer

[RF’sDelight]

Hi @Smudgerer, thank you for your response. Although I‘m slightly tempted towards acquiring the next gen M your post describes more or less my gut feeling.

Perhaps I only regret that I sold my silver chrome M9-P (with cement grey leatherette) to finance the M10M and now I‘m looking for a substitute. 😁

PS: I like black chrome too but I finally wanted a Leica M to match my non-asph Summilux 50 BP. 😂

Edited December 21, 2023 by RF’sDelight

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[MT0227]

I’ve had the M240P; M10P and now the M11P;  I also shoot a lot of film.   My 11P and 50Lux (2023) are pretty close to perfection for me.   I’m real happy with what I’m able to accomplish thus far.  The 11p will give me more bang for that depreciation hit, relative to previous M models I’ve owned. I always seemed to be chasing a bit more resolution with them; not anymore.  I just acquired a new 35 APO, and will be shooting it a lot over the holidays.  The new minimum focal lengths of the 50/35 lenses are like the DR Summicron, just incredible.

[costa43]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:53 PM, RF’sDelight said:

Design wise the M11-P in chrome is the camera I was waiting for since the M11 was introduced. And the premium you have to pay to get the P-Version is even less than I would have expected.

Since I don't want to hoard digital Leica Ms one of my three remaining M10s (pictured below) would have to leave for an M11-P.  But… reading all across the forum I can't find this sort of overwhelmingness about the IQ which would make me swap one of these (quintessential) M10s for the M11-P.

So everyone here who can do a direct file comparison between the M10-R and M11(-P) please do so! It would help me a lot. 😁 Thank you and happy holidays!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Merry Christmas! This is digital M nirvana. Sell none! 

Edited December 25, 2023 by costa43