Leica M11 / M11-M / M11-P: Firmware Update v.2.0.2

[Tailwagger]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

7 hours ago, bcaslis said:

To be clear I have not seen this before. The images were OK in Lightroom so I don't know if this was Lightroom or the camera. And the release note says this:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I just installed the firmware, took a few snaps to make sure all was well.  This is what I saw on the first upload:

 

I have been nothing but supportive of Leica and the M11 to date.  But color me done with that and absolutely furious. After a dozen years of digital M ownership, all I see now is a company which has little issue with embracing incompetence.  Lock ups are one thing... I've encountered them on every digital Leica I've owned (and a number of other manufacturers as well).  They are annoying, but rarely tragic.  I might have encountered the over exposure problem a couple of times in many hundreds to thousands of frames, so while a very serious issue, it didn't fully rise to the level of put the camera in the drawer and forget about it until there is a fix. 

This problem, OTOH, does.  Corruption showing up in one out of the first seven shots is hardly what I would call rare.  But even if its 1 in 100 or 1 in a 1000, there is zero excuse for this.  How can any camera manufacturer with a single ounce of self respect, knowingly release software which results in the loss of a shot.  Corrupt, unreadable DNGs is 100% absolutely unacceptable and I really don't want to hear that it will be fixed shortly.  It never should have reached the field in the first place.  The moment this was discovered, there should have been an immediate rollback to the last version of the firmware where this was not the case.

I have important gigs at the end of the month. How can I possibly rely on this camera to be involved in them?  Use the internal memory?  Do I have an iron clad guarantee that will work? Why should I trust anything they say now or in future when they assume my work, and yours, is so incompetent that the loss of a shot every now and again is no big deal.  That Leica is fine with releasing boobytrapped firmware says that not only have lost respect for their customers, but for their own heritage as well.  

Dr. Kaufmann should issue a personal apology to every single M11 shooter and vow that such poor judgement and incompetence will never again be associated with the Leica brand.

 

[MyLeicaWorld]

Haven’t tried exporting photos to Lightroom but everything seems ok with capture one for iPad and the firmware installation made via Leica fotos ..

[lct]

9 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

[...] Corrupt, unreadable DNGs is 100% absolutely unacceptable and I really don't want to hear that it will be fixed shortly.  It never should have reached the field in the first place [...]

+1. I have no experience of this issue but as fine as my body may work otherwise, i would have never used it for my job with such a bug. Even if it came from Adobe or elsewhere, it was Leica's duty to refrain from releasing such a faulty firmware whilst they were aware of the issue.

[bilbrown]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:00 AM, lct said:

No problem here either but can someone explain me what difference(s) is(are) in the behaviour of the camera when dust protection is on or off?

Some of the older lenses or lenses with adapters were having issues being read all the time, and the shutter's dust protection would just come on during shooting thinking the lens was off. I experienced this in the first day of my M11P and could not figure out what the hell was going on.

On 11/29/2023 at 11:09 AM, lct said:

ISO maxi values are still prioritized apparently. No rocket science to crank them up manually to increase shutter speeds IMHO. YMMV.

Mostly I have just used M and put the back wheel to press in and be the ISO, manually setting it and using a quick LV to check exposure if I am not totally sure. This seems rather fast and I don't have to bother with ISO max in A or auto ISO.

[anbucco]

Using the M11-P since day 1 I only had one lockup with 2.0.1. No issues with 2.02. yet. I’m working with Capture One, On1 and Lightroom Classic. But I must admit that accessing the images an camera when connected to my Mac ist quite strange. I can access the images on SD Card. When I want to access the images from internal memory I have to remove the SD Card first🤦‍♂️

I’m using internal memory for DNG’s and SD Card for JPG’s
 

Edited December 2, 2023 by anbucco

[lct]

1 hour ago, bilbrown said:

Some of the older lenses or lenses with adapters were having issues being read all the time, and the shutter's dust protection would just come on during shooting thinking the lens was off.

Ah yes thank you. I have lenses and adapters like this but i did not realise Dust Protection on/off fixed the issue. For those interested, when a black adapter is used on a LTM lens, for instance, the camera displays "No Lens" the same way as previously. But no photo could be taken under firmware 2.0.1 whereas firmware 2.0.2 allows to take photos when Dust Protection is set to off.

Edited December 2, 2023 by lct

[bilbrown]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

19 hours ago, J S H said:

As another data point, I only use the internal memory on my M11 and I have never seen a corrupted or unreadable DNG over the last 11 months. 

I have, but only if I am impatient and pop the battery on import of the 60MP DNG+JPG after a fast succession of shots. The buffer is slow for the largest format. For those situations that I will shoot my M like I would an SL, I have moved to S or M resolution or fast fast shooting that does not need high edits, I have only used JPG or S DNG.

Not saying the corrupt DNG issue is based on the buffer, but to avoid it I have let the buffer catch up and just left the camera alone when it gets "stuck" and came back to it in a few minutes and it has worked itself out. 

This means I can't just carry the M11-P with me on shoots (sadly) but I think most of these issues are based on the largish files getting stuck in the buffer. 

(No we did not have this issue on the 24MP M10 or even the 40MP M10R. This is specific to the 60MP M11 variants.)

Edited December 2, 2023 by bilbrown
clarity

[bilbrown]

4 hours ago, lct said:

Ah yes thank you. I have lenses and adapters like this but i did not realise Dust Protection on/off fixed the issue. For those interested, when a black adapter is used on a LTM lens, for instance, the camera displays "No Lens" the same way as previously. But no photo could be taken under firmware 2.0.1 whereas firmware 2.0.2 allows to take photos when Dust Protection is set to off.

Yes, for some reason the M11 variants do not allow this, or didn't, and I think this had to do with the way Dust Protection is implimented.

 

Just like the buffering issue with the large 60MP files, or using flash with Hybrid or ES doesn't work. With some situations, you have to decide if the file image quality is what you want with this camera and you are willing to take the other caveats (slower shooting, lens mount sensitivity , etc).

The easy way to put this is: This is still an M. This is not an SLR or mirrorless body. There are things in the design from 70 years ago that just will not translate without a lot of user data. 

We are likely still a few FW updates away from the M11 being solid for everyone, optimized for every type of shooter that would even use an M to begin with.

I think of it like this: How long would it take me to change a roll of film? With the way I shoot a digital camera, even waiting is a lot less time.

 

That said, I still keep my M10M as back-up, maybe should have kept my M10R, but its whatever.

[bilbrown]

9 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

 

I just installed the firmware, took a few snaps to make sure all was well.  This is what I saw on the first upload:

 

Dr. Kaufmann should issue a personal apology to every single M11 shooter and vow that such poor judgement and incompetence will never again be associated with the Leica brand.

 

Look man, I was mad AF too. I have also been a digital M user for over a decade (and SL, S and Q). There are a few things that the higher resolution sensor does that I think the M body just has been hard to hold onto - seeing that we want to keep a mount that was made in the 1950s, and still use a rangefinder, we are doing kinda okay with making this act like a modern mirrorless camera. The benefits to this camera outweigh the things we have to do to get there (until Leica irons everything out in new FW. If you remember it took the M10 up to FW 5.0.1, and we are just on 2.0.2 of the M11 variants).

These are the steps I took to stop the DNG corruption, and they seem to have worked until the FW can be updated:

0) NUMBER ONE. If you are going to utilize the L (60MP) DNG + JPG you MUST have a fast card. I don't care what anyone tells you, if you are using the M11/M11M/M11-P for professional work treat it like a professional camera and get the fastest SD card you can. Don't get it from Amazon, get it from a camera store or supplier or direct. I have found that the cards that are built for 4k video at 260MBPS/300MBPS UHS-II v90 are the only ones that work well. Utilizing this and coupling it with the below has limited issues overall. Don't just depend on the internal memory, it is good but this UHS-II v90 card will do wonders.

1) I realize that I need to wait a full 5 seconds before shooting after I start the camera. The lag is stupid, for sure but I've gotten used to it... mostly.

2) I turn off auto power off and manually turn it off each time. Waking from sleep is like starting-up somehow.

3) Now I can turn off Dust Protection, I think this had a lot to do with the pauses in operation especially when using no coded lenses. The shutter coming up and down is a big issue causing this. 

4) If I am shooting fast, I use continuous slow or fast mode. I do not do as I used to with the M9, M240 and M10 variants and pump the shutter button to get my shots. This camera doesn't like this as the shutter goes up and down in a different way than previously.

5) When I can (daylight and situations when I don't have to move) I use the electronic shutter. At night and low light I use Hybrid or Mechanical Shutter.

6) The buffer is BEST used in S or M DNG + JPG, in JPG only S or M you can shoot for a long time without issue. With L (60MP) DNG + JPG, choose your shots wisely, do not think that you can or will get every shot you press the shutter for at highest resolution if you are shooting in a way that is continuous. The buffer fills up QUICKLY with the highest resolution. In this I would say this is the most optimal way to shoot.

• S (18MP) JPG will shoot continuously in what seems like forever, the buffer seems to never fill. Not sure what circumstance you would want to do this in, but if you need more DR you can always try the extra DR function for JPG.
• S (18MP) DNG or DNG + JPG makes the camera work much like a M10 in speed. This is optimal if you want to do things you would have done with the M10 previously.
• M (36MP) DNG + JPG works similarly to the M10R/M10M in that you don't get buffering right away but you will have to stop to let the camera catch up after about 7-10 shots.
• L (60MP) JPG works like M above. 7-10, maybe 15 shots and you have to wait.
• L (60MP) DNG + JPG you will get MAX 3-5 shots then have to wait for the buffer to catch up. If you do get more, then you will have to wait longer. DO NOT TURN OFF THE CAMERA, DO NOT PULL THE BATTERY. Put it aside, use another camera or just wait. If the camera is in AUTO BATTERY SAVER MODE this might cancel the write to card or the internal drive. TURN OFF AUTO SHUT DOWN.

 

7) Mechanical Shutter ONLY if using flash. Use a Leica Flash like the SF 40 or SF 60 if possible. The SF 20, SF 24 and SF 26 are not optimized for HSS and this camera is. If you do this, you can basically shoot the M11-P (and maybe the M11/M11M) at any shutter speed as if it had a central shutter like the Q/Q2/Q2M/Q3 or S (with CS lenses).

8 ) Geotagging SLOWS DOWN THE CAMERA when FOTOS is constantly looking for your phone and can cause the files not to write to card. Turn off geotagging in FOTOS, or better yet TURN OFF FOTOS when not using it. Geotagging communicates with your phone and looks for it, and also drains battery power. Not a lot, but enough. IF you don't need it, turn it off. 

9) on my M11P, I have not had to turn off the CAI chip data writing but if you still have issues, only turn it on when you absolutely need it.

10) On important shoots, like any professional, carry a back up camera or body. I'm sure we all do this, but in the case of the M11 it seems imperative that we build our away kits for the occasion. I typically have three or more cameras with me, usually an SL2/SL2S (best) or a Q/Q2/Q2M. For sure, I didn't think I would have to do this with the M11, but its not much different than shooting with a slower MF body at high resolution and then using an SL2 to shoot faster.

 

I will add to this list as I think of it. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by bilbrown
additional info

[hjddd]

9 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

 

我刚刚安装了固件，拍了几张照片以确保一切正常。这是我第一次上传时看到的：

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

到目前为止，我只是支持徕卡和 M11。但我已经完成了这一切，并且非常愤怒。在拥有数字 M 十几年之后，我现在看到的只是一家毫无能力地接受无能的公司。锁定是一回事……我在我拥有的每台数码徕卡相机（以及许多其他制造商）上都遇到过这种情况。它们很烦人，但很少是悲剧性的。我可能在数百到数千帧中遇到过几次曝光过度的问题，所以虽然这是一个非常严重的问题，但它并没有完全上升到将相机放在抽屉里然后忘记它的程度，直到有修复。 

这个问题，OTOH，确实如此。前七次拍摄中，有一次出现腐败的情况我认为并不罕见。但即使是百分之一或千分之一，也没有零借口。任何有一点自尊的相机制造商怎么可能故意发布导致镜头丢失的软件。损坏、无法读取的 DNG 是 100% 绝对不可接受的，我真的不想听到它很快就会被修复。它从一开始就不应该到达现场。一旦发现这一点，就应该立即回滚到固件的最新版本，但事实并非如此。

月底我有重要的演出。我怎么可能依赖这台摄像机来参与其中呢？使用内部存储器？我有铁定有效的保证吗？当他们认为我的工作和你的工作是如此无能，以至于时不时的失球没什么大不了的时候，我为什么要相信他们现在或将来所说的任何事情。徕卡对发布诱杀固件表示满意，这表明他们不仅失去了对客户的尊重，也失去了对自己传统的尊重。  

考夫曼博士应该向每一位M11射手发出个人道歉，并发誓这种糟糕的判断力和无能再也不会与徕卡品牌联系在一起。

 

I have the same problem even with my brand new M11-P 

[bilbrown]

4 minutes ago, hjddd said:

I have the same problem even with my brand new M11-P 

Check your settings against what I said above.

[bcaslis]

I have not had any issues since my first issue with two pictures becoming corrupt on an M11. I don't turn off FOTOS, I don't change how I use the camera. I've shot now about 120 photos on an M11 and M11 monochrom since that first issue both using 2.0.2.

[J S H]

8 minutes ago, bcaslis said:

I have not had any issues since my first issue with two pictures becoming corrupt on an M11. I don't turn off FOTOS, I don't change how I use the camera. I've shot now about 120 photos on an M11 and M11 monochrom since that first issue both using 2.0.2.

Yep, same here. Absolutely no issues with either buffer problems or corrupt files from my M11. I leave Fotos connected all the time and everything works as it should. Truthfully, I don't treat it any different than my A1. I use it for work and it hasn't let me down. 

[lct]

42 minutes ago, J S H said:

Absolutely no issues with either buffer problems or corrupt files from my M11.

+1 and i don't treat the M11 like a film M personally. I expect it to work fine in RF mode obviously but also in LV mode the same way as a good mirrorless camera. Minus the speed of course but i would not accept a sluggish camera in any way, even with Visoflex at 60 mp. Almost the modern M i was waiting for since my M8.2.

[Tailwagger]

3 hours ago, bilbrown said:

Look man, I was mad AF too.

I appreciate the detailed list and I think it is a well thought out one.  I hope it helps others, but sadly nearly none of it applies to me.  I shoot DNG (60Mpx... I may rethink this and go to 36 generically), no use for JPGs OOC.  UHS-II Sand disk cards. I never have, nor will I ever mash a shutter, not my style.  The shutter is generically set to hybrid. Bluetooth off, never use Fotos. The lens mounted when the failure occurred was a coded one... 50mm 'lux BC... and the camera was started via the switch, not coming out of wakeup.  For the record, the ISO happened to be on auto (64) at the time and I shoot in LV. 

The one thing you mention which might apply is waiting 5 seconds after wake up. I do recall the failure occurred on the first shot after turning the camera back on.  It is possible I might have pressed the shutter within a couple of seconds of start up, but it's equally likely that I didn't. Can't say one way or the other.  But I did try to reproduce the problem by both mashing and doing so on startup. Couldn't.  OTOH, I did change my storage setting from ->SD to IN=SD in the hope that if a failure does occur again, I'll have a backup in camera.

I remain a committed M shooter, but crap like this is making it more and more difficult.  Users should not be forced into the business of formulating or speculating on work arounds, particularly for a camera now nearly two years in the field.  Given they state a fix is coming, they either understand what is happening or they are bs-ing us to avoid the embarrassment.  Assuming its the former, they should provide us with enough information in terms of modes or actions to avoid in the interim to prevent or at least minimize the chance of encountering the issue.  That they haven't, that we are simply cast to the winds of fate, is extremely annoying.  Other's might disagree, but from an imaging standpoint, I find the M11 to clearly be at the top of the heap. I adore it, in the abstract it is my favorite M by far. But this never ending series of usability issues, far more egregious ones then ever encountered with the previous gens of Ms, is wearing on me.

And, of course, for anything important I always carry a backup... SL2 typically, but this time around I suspect there will be a 10-R nearby as well.  That said neither one does anything at all for me if the M11 is the camera in hand, the shot winds up corrupted and the moment is gone... particularly if one only finds about about it hours later with no possibility of making any further attempt. 

[bilbrown]

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

 I did change my storage setting from ->SD to IN=SD in the hope that if a failure does occur again, I'll have a backup in camera.

I remain a committed M shooter, but crap like this is making it more and more difficult.  Users should not be forced into the business of formulating or speculating on work arounds, particularly for a camera now nearly two years in the field.  Given they state a fix is coming, they either understand what is happening or they are bs-ing us to avoid the embarrassment.  Assuming its the former, they should provide us with enough information in terms of modes or actions to avoid in the interim to prevent or at least minimize the chance of encountering the issue.  That they haven't, that we are simply cast to the winds of fate, is extremely annoying.  Other's might disagree, but from an imaging standpoint, I find the M11 to clearly be at the top of the heap. I adore it, in the abstract it is my favorite M by far. But this never ending series of usability issues, far more egregious ones then ever encountered with the previous gens of Ms, is wearing on me.

I agree about the workarounds. Bottom line is this camera is extremely complex, it's an M and an M is simple. This is not and I think that is possibly the coming of age of the M, 70 year old tech meets the newest tech. This is going to cause some issues.

The M11 image quality is bar none the best digital M I have ever used, so trying here. As are you.

 

At one point I pulled all cards and went just with the IN memory, had the DNG issue still happen but saw a wifi icon when it started buffering. This is when I checked my settings and realized that the camera was trying to talk to my iPhone/FOTOS. I wouldn't exactly say I was smashing the shutter button but I was shooting fast on single shot mode instead of using multi shot or bursts. I think it's somehow related to the timing and speed of the buffer, when this timing thing was off with any of the things I was doing above I would get a bad DNG and/or the camera would seem like it was frozen for many seconds or even minutes.

This led me to beleive it's the shutter as it functions – open, close, to open in one shutter movement. Even the use of lenses that don't cover the coded sensor opened the shutter sometimes in between a shot. 

Then I tried all mechanical or all electronic, see which one works better consistently. Mechanical was better, ES was best (but I like to feel when I take a shot so that wasn't going to work).

 

Also, more than one Leica tech person or person from the akadamie said to pull the card, reformat it in SD Card Formatter on the computer, then pull the battery, put the battery back in put the card back in (don't format it in camera) and reset the camera. Evidently the file structure of the M11 is different than any other Leica and it needs a completely new or zeroed out card to start from. Did that too.

 

 

Bottom line is this: philosophically I look at it like I do my kid's elementary school. They are teaching a new form of math that when it's sent home I can't figure the damn thing out, my wife can't and her mother (a Montessori school teacher) can't. This isn't super complex, its addition and subtraction. Yes, we can go back to the way we were taught to do it and get the right answer... but evidently this way is better, better for the kids, because they will see multiple ways of doing a problem and it helps them with problem solving because lets face it, not everyone is going to have to do like trig or geometry their whole life, so it should just be about learning to see something from a number of different ways of doing. The M11. or on my case the M11-P, is like this new math. For a little while as an old schooler I am going to try put the camera into my way of shooting and M. A way that isnt different that much from shooting my M2, M7 or M-A. This camera is so much more. I can go back to shooting it even like the M10R, but it has much more problem solving potential - for one it has fucking internal memory and a bigger battery, game changer.  Yes, it's going to be slower to get right away. No it won't work exactly the same and I have to adjust a few settings to get myself out of the habit of shooting the way I did.

 

Ultimately, the image that comes out of it and my ability to capture it when I want to is the bottom line. I can't blame the camera for messing up because I didn't read the manual; or the forums before I purchased it. Leica put out two firmware updates a month apart, let's hope the next one addresses this issue which they have written in the last FW they were aware of.

 

Sooner the better.

Edited December 3, 2023 by bilbrown

[UliWer]

I think the issue of "corrupt" DNG may be a fault caused by the last update of Lightroom (LIghtroom Classic 13.0.1, Camera Raw 16.0).

Since this last update I made the following experience both with the M10 and M10 Monochrome:

I import DNG-files from the SD-card to Lightroom and apply some changements. Afterwards I reinsert the card to the camera. Files which I changed in LR can't be read by the camera anymore. I just get the file number L1xxxxx.DNG. Though these files are not corrupt! They are still there in Mac "Preview", in Lightroom or in Capture One. It is only the camera which does not accept the altered file any more.

I never had this before the last update of Lightroom even though I regularly import files from the card, work on them in LR and reinsert the card which still has these files later. This new experience is not limited to the M10, the M10 Monochrome just reacts in the same way. 

 

[UliWer]

Adobe offers an update of Lightroom Classics to version 13.0.2 for "correction of critical faults".

I tried this with the same procedure as described above: After importing the DNG from the card to Lightroom, making changements in Lightroom and reinserting the SD card the file can still be read by the camera (M10).

So M11 owners who have seen the issue of corrupted DNG files should try whether this persists with v. 13.0.2 of Lightroom Classic

[J S H]

26 minutes ago, UliWer said:

Adobe offers an update of Lightroom Classics to version 13.0.2 for "correction of critical faults".

I tried this with the same procedure as described above: After importing the DNG from the card to Lightroom, making changements in Lightroom and reinserting the SD card the file can still be read by the camera (M10).

So M11 owners who have seen the issue of corrupted DNG files should try whether this persists with v. 13.0.2 of Lightroom Classic

Good to know. I didn't personally see this issue with the corrupt/unreadable DNG files, but LrC 13.0.1 had other problems, at least for Mac installation. It crashed as soon as it was opened after installation and had to be removed then re-installed on my machine. It was buggy even after the re-installation. 13.0.2 seems to be more stable. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Tailwagger]

2 hours ago, UliWer said:

I think the issue of "corrupt" DNG may be a fault caused by the last update of Lightroom (LIghtroom Classic 13.0.1, Camera Raw 16.0).

Since this last update I made the following experience both with the M10 and M10 Monochrome:

I import DNG-files from the SD-card to Lightroom and apply some changements. Afterwards I reinsert the card to the camera. Files which I changed in LR can't be read by the camera anymore. I just get the file number L1xxxxx.DNG. Though these files are not corrupt! They are still there in Mac "Preview", in Lightroom or in Capture One. It is only the camera which does not accept the altered file any more.

I never had this before the last update of Lightroom even though I regularly import files from the card, work on them in LR and reinsert the card which still has these files later. This new experience is not limited to the M10, the M10 Monochrome just reacts in the same way. 

 

 

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

Adobe offers an update of Lightroom Classics to version 13.0.2 for "correction of critical faults".

I tried this with the same procedure as described above: After importing the DNG from the card to Lightroom, making changements in Lightroom and reinserting the SD card the file can still be read by the camera (M10).

So M11 owners who have seen the issue of corrupted DNG files should try whether this persists with v. 13.0.2 of Lightroom Classic

What you describe is not what I experienced. Besides which, I've been lax of late and are still running LR 12.5. 

As the screen shot I posted hopefully makes clear, the file size display is 0 bytes.  There is a named file that is empty.  No data, nada, nothing. This suggests the M created a file, but never managed to write any data to it. The view shown was achieved by slotting in the card and reffing it in mac finder.  That says to a near certainty that this is a Leica, not Adobe problem.  Why 'near'?  Because, yes Adobe was involved in the initial read of the file from the card so there is a very, very, very slight chance that Adobe has a bug which has them writing back to the card, but I seriously doubt it.  Regardless, in this case, there is ZERO chance of recovery as the file is empty.

No, this problem, in my view, is yet another in a long line of synchronization screwups and critical region violations.  To briefly recap, you have to halt certain operations at critical moments... the simplest example is that you can not allow a shutter press to trigger anything meaningful if the camera has yet to have completed the previous shot.  That the file was created on the card, but no data was ever written to it smells like a classic case of a missed signal to complete the save or alternately something interrupted the file write operation and it was never properly restarted. 

While to some extent I agree with those who feel these things are down to the change in shutter behavior, for the umpteenth time, the shutter has behaved the same way since the M240... when in Live View! There is nothing fundamentally new about this sequence and as someone who has run his Ms with the EVF attached for many years now, and as I've said over and over again, I have experienced lock ups and occasional oddities on every M I've owned. That includes the 10 and 10-R as well.  Its not surprising to me that most have not experienced such issues, as the majority has not run EVFs 24/7 for over 100K frames as I have in the past decade or so.  What is new with the M11 is that the loss of the reflective shutter means that now they will given every M shooter, EVF or no, essentially shoots in LV mode, like it or not.

This reality coupled with higher resolutions, more features, etc has stressed the camera's OS in ways that it previously had not experienced and far more often due to the larger user base involved. There is little doubt in my mind that the code running inside the M10s is largely the same as that of the M11 in just the same way the code running inside iMac is largely the same as that in an Macbook or Air. The uptick in reported problems seen is more likely due to the fact that the dance required to meter off the sensor is indeed more complex than the previous default method and now every single M shooter is forced to use it.

With the teething pains of the M11, what I see is a classic case of existing, heretofore rarely, perhaps never seen before, problems, surface unexpectedly.  Leica, as is so often the case when dealing with difficult to reproduce software problems, is currently dealing with them by playing Whack-a-Mole rather than taking a deep breadth and doing a comprehensive audit and rethink. Not surprising given the size of their operations.  But as my dear father use to remind me from time to time, 'when a system is working, all you really know is that the sum of the bugs currently is zero'. The problems we are experiencing here often come to the fore as the result of altering a key assumption or two and all of sudden finding out that what you thought was a stable system, in fact isnt.  They, and us as well, seem to be re-learning this the hard way.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Tailwagger