Leica SL2-S and Using M Lenses

[RayD28]

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I have a chance to buy an excellent condition SL2-S at a great price.  I was not in the market for an SL so this is like a solution looking for a problem.  A little background.  I had a Nikon D800 DSLR with some primes and the 24-70 2.8G and 70-200 2.8G.  Wonderful system but big and complicated, so I sold it all and went to a Leica M system.  My digital is the M-10R and my Leica lenses range from 21mm to 50mm.  A few questions:

* How much functionality would I lose if I just used M lenses?  I know autofocus is lost, but what about auto exposure?  If I recall, the 2-S is aperture preferred so I would think exposure would still be automatic.  Example, set auto ISO to off, auto expose to on, choose f/stop, and the shutter speed would automatically adjust.  But is this how it works?

* For focus zoom and M lenses, is the focus point fixed to the middle of the frame, or can you use a button to move it around the frame?  Either way, I assume you can zoom in for critical focus.  

* Does the IBIS work well with M lenses?  If so, about how many stops do you gain from a practical standpoint?

* Is the information displayed in the viewfinder when using an M lens different than using an L lens.

* Do M to L adapter rings have to be coded?  

* If you have a 28mm lens and a 50mm lens, do you have to have two separate M to L adapters?

* Is there anything else significant I should know regarding M lenses with a 2-S?

Those are some starter questions.  Will probably have some followup.  BTW, I know an SL-3 is rumored and an SL2 has its merits, but the 2-S is the body considered right now.  

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and expertise.  

Ray

 

 

[frame-it]

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

set auto ISO to off, auto expose to on, choose f/stop, and the shutter speed would automatically adjust.  But is this how it works?

yep, in A mode

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

For focus zoom and M lenses, is the focus point fixed to the middle of the frame, or can you use a button to move it around the frame?  Either way, I assume you can zoom in for critical focus.  

yep, i prefer red focus peaking for the ballpark zone, then a quick press on the joystick to zoom in to fine tune and then shoot

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Does the IBIS work well with M lenses?

very well

 

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Is the information displayed in the viewfinder when using an M lens different than using an L lens.

yes

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Do M to L adapter rings have to be coded?  

the leica m>l adapter has its own code

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

If you have a 28mm lens and a 50mm lens, do you have to have two separate M to L adapters?

no, unless you're using 2 cameras at the same time

10 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Is there anything else significant I should know regarding M lenses with a 2-S?

light, easy to use and great fun, super-wides might have some edge issues, so choose the lens model manually from the list

 

madapter_l.pdf

Edited November 23, 2023 by frame-it

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, RayD28 said:

Do M to L adapter rings have to be coded?

Leica's "M adapter L" is the best solution if your M lenses are coded. You can just leave it on the camera. It will detect lenses automatically, and set IBIS and lens correction without any additional fuss. You can also use a third-party adapter, but then you need to choose your lens from a list after each lens change.

If you go with the "M adapter L" and you have some uncoded M lenses, I highly recommend having them serviced and updated to 6-bit coding. Leica has a flat-rate service for this, which includes a CLA. Independent repair technicians can do it too.

Note that the "M adapter L" was previously called the "M adapter TL." It's the same adapter.

[dpitt]

I also struggled finding out what the limitations and benefits are before I actually used the adapters.
Very important caveat!  IBIS and EXIF info only work when using the native Leica M-L adapter!

I have experience with both Novoflex and URTH. They are just as good as the Leica ones mechanically and give this functionality:

• Fcous depends on the manual focus aid configured. Either focus peaking lines or magnification. I find the focus peaking not accurate enough. Magnifications works great, even with very long and fast lenses.
• 'A'  mode works as expected.
  Auto ISO helps keeping the shutter time under control, bit most of the time I set my SL to fixed ISO and adjust my aperture on the lens accordingly.
  'M' mode is possible too
  All other modes that need to drive the aperture do not work : P, S...
• Lens profiles can be chosen, but the EXIF in the files is still blank. M+ R lens profiles available which makes stacking R-M and M-L adapters possible.

Using the native Leica Adapter brings this extra functionality:

• Lens profile is chosen automatically for coded M lenses.
• Profiles can be chosen for uncoded M lenses.
• EXIF info is updated with FL, lens type, even the chosen profile when the lens is uncoded.
  For aperture a 'guesstimate' is recorded which can be a weird stop or slightly different stop than the actual used stop. M lenses do not transmit info about aperture used.
• ONLY M profiles can be chosen, no R profiles available for stacked use of R-M adapter
• IBIS, if available and  activated

In the end, I now found a used M-L adapter, just because of the lens profiles and EXIF info.
But sometimes when I take both R and M uncoded lenses with me, the Novoflex is the better choice because it allows me to stack the R-M adapter and still choose the right R profile.

Edited November 23, 2023 by dpitt

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, dpitt said:

I also struggled finding out what the limitations and benefits are before I actually used the adapters.
Very important caveat!  IBIS and EXIF info only work when using the native Leica M-L adapter!

I have experience with both Novoflex and URTH. They are just as good as the Leica ones mechanically and give this functionality:

• Fcous depends on the manual focus aid configured. Either focus peaking lines or magnification. I find the focus peaking not accurate enough. Magnifications works great, even with very long and fast lenses.
• 'A'  mode works as expected.
  Auto ISO helps keeping the shutter time under control, bit most of the time I set my SL to fixed ISO and adjust my aperture on the lens accordingly.
  'M' mode is possible too
  All other modes that need to drive the aperture do not work : P, S...
• Lens profiles can be chosen, but the EXIF in the files is still blank. M+ R lens profiles available which makes stacking R-M and M-L adapters possible.

Using the native Leica Adapter brings this extra functionality:

• Lens profile is chosen automatically for coded M lenses.
• Profiles can be chosen for uncoded M lenses.
• EXIF info is updated with FL, lens type, even the chosen profile when the lens is uncoded.
  For aperture a 'guesstimate' is recorded which can be a weird stop or slightly different stop than the actual used stop. M lenses do not transmit info about aperture used.
• ONLY M profiles can be chosen, no R profiles available for stacked use of R-M adapter
• IBIS, if available and  activated

In the end, I now found a used M-L adapter, just because of the lens profiles and EXIF info.
But sometimes when I take both R and M uncoded lenses with me, the Novoflex is the better choice because it allows me to stack the R-M adapter and still choose the right R profile.

ibis should work once you choose the focal length, even with a dummy adapter

[Jean-Michel]

Just adding to the above posts: for accurate focusing you need to open the aperture to wide open and then close it down to a desired f/stop – you can do that by feel if used to your lens – but that does delay your picture taking. You can of course focus with the lens stopped down but the dof will likely 'hide' the exact spot you want to focus on. In my case – I have both and SL2 and an M-P(240) – when using my WATE (Tri-Elmar) I much prefer using it on the M (focusing, if need be,  with the RF and viewing with the EVF2).

[frame-it]

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6 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

for accurate focusing you need to open the aperture to wide open and then close it down to a desired f/stop – you can do that by feel if used to your lens – but that does delay your picture taking. You can of course focus with the lens stopped down but the dof will likely 'hide' the exact spot you want to focus on.

which is exactly why i prefer red focus peaking for the ballpark zone, then a quick press on the joystick to zoom in to fine tune and then shoot, that way i don't need to change the aperture at all

[JRWhite]

Perfectly timed post! I’m about to go down this same path with an SL2 + M lenses. I have an Urth adapter, but based on this post, I believe I’ll be in the market for the Leica adapter. Many thanks for the info!

[dem331]

The only thing you need to watch out for is to never put an SL APO prime on the SL2 (S). 
 

Once you have done this there is no going back, at least this has been my experience. 

[dpitt]

7 hours ago, frame-it said:

ibis should work once you choose the focal length, even with a dummy adapter

Maybe my information is wrong. 🤔 I read this somewhere on this forum I think. I have a SL(typ 601) which has no IBIS, so I can not test that mysself.

Do you have a SL2(-S) with a 'dumb' adapter? Can you confirm that IBIS works in your case?

 

2 hours ago, JRWhite said:

Perfectly timed post! I’m about to go down this same path with an SL2 + M lenses. I have an Urth adapter, but based on this post, I believe I’ll be in the market for the Leica adapter. Many thanks for the info!

I managed without and thought I would manage since many of my M lenses are not coded. But, after a while I did not bother with setting the M lens profile on my SL because it was not saved in EXIF anyway. Now I need to, because it ends up in the file.

I can not imagine any than pure commercial reasons for Leica to code their firmware like this. Leica quality should sell itself, and it does for me. It should not need to cripple its functionality with third party accessories to boost sales.

 

28 minutes ago, dem331 said:

The only thing you need to watch out for is to never put an SL APO prime on the SL2 (S). 
 

Once you have done this there is no going back, at least this has been my experience. 

I think the size and weight of the APO lenses would limit their use, even if I had one. I do not bother much with AF. The SL focuses fine with M lenses, almost as good as the M itself.

At best the APO lenses would introduce a conflict between portability and ultimate quality when I am traveling. Even when the weight of the SL makes it second choice to my M9 anyway.

And there is the price of course, I am using the old SL and have plenty of small and light M and R lenses to chose from.

Edited November 24, 2023 by dpitt

[Kreeshp]

On 11/23/2023 at 10:55 PM, dem331 said:

The only thing you need to watch out for is to never put an SL APO prime on the SL2 (S). 
 

Once you have done this there is no going back, at least this has been my experience. 

 

I strongly second this.  I bought my SL2-S Reporter a year ago, when it was launched, with the express intent of using only my M mount lenses.  I had even recently acquired a 35 APO-M thinking I was done; never would I need or want to lug around a large SL prime lens.

Recently, I came across a local bargain on a used 35 APO-SL that could not be passed over so being a good consumer, I obliged and bought it.   The 35 APO-SL's performance on the SL2-S is so extraordinary that this lens has not come off since I bought it a few months ago.  Furthermore, the images it produces are so good that I'm more than willing to put up with the weight of the setup.  Instead of the weight/mass being a deterrent to its use, I've experienced the opposite reaction: I'm taking the thing everywhere with me, keen to experiment with how this amazing prime lens performs.  I have a feeling the M mount lenses won't be going back on the SL2-S for a long time - if ever - because I own other M bodies.

I agree with the above comment.  There's no going back once you've tried an SL prime lens.

[rtai]

I mounted a coded M lens with Leica brand M L adapter onto my SL2 and the EVF got pretty dark. I thought I had stopped down the aperture but no. Did I miss a crucial setting on the menu?

[ocean2059]

9 hours ago, rtai said:

I mounted a coded M lens with Leica brand M L adapter onto my SL2 and the EVF got pretty dark. I thought I had stopped down the aperture but no. Did I miss a crucial setting on the menu?

It shouldn't. Check your EV value in the EVF as you may accidentally change that to a large negative value with you index finger/thrum wheel.