scanning black and white negatives

[Ben Droste]

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Dear Forum,

 

I am a very longtime Leica M analog user (presently M6 and M2) , still developping film and printing my own negatives (with a Focomat 2C). However I am not shy of using digital, Leica cameras like the D-Lux series.

Next to making my own prints in the darkroom I also digitalize my negatives. Up till now with a relative simple Reflecta scanner. The results are usable for smaller formats but they are not up to Leica standards.

My question: what type of scanner should I use short of professional flatbed scanners? With the latter the scanning proces is slow.

 

Thanks for your answers.

 

Ben Droste

 

 

 

[250swb]

Use a digital camera, mirrorless or dslr ideally with 24mp or more. A flatbed scanner isn’t the pinnacle anyway, in fact they are very poor for scanning 35mm. There is already a thread on the forum about scanning negatives with many recommendations for a camera workflow. There are no dedicated film scanners on the market at the moment that are a better.

[spydrxx]

I've been using mirrorless cameras with macro lenses mounted on a stand with a light source below to scan my B&W negatives and old Kodachrome slides for several years now. Quite happy with the process. Not sure what you think Leica "standards" for scanning are, but I've had good results with 3x4 ft enlargement prints made from my scans.

[dpitt]

If you have a D lux, I would try that first. See how far it gets you.
You could use an old light table if you have one, or a simple LED photographic light source .

Set up a tripod and shoot away. If you like what you see, you could invest in a more convenient and better quality setup.

[chris_livsey]

It rather depends on what quality of output you want, or are prepared to pay for or are prepared to "fiddle" with.

Using a digital camera is all well and good if you can get it set up with the correct even illumination, absolutely parallel set up and quality of lens for close up work, it can be done very well but isn't an off the shelf solution, if you enjoy experimenting to get right fine and I don't deny the results can be of high quality. 

A step up perhaps without breaking the bank is the Plustek Optic 8100 ( not the more expense ones with IR for dust removal which will not work on B/W negs) a quick google shows a recent review:  Plustek OpticFilm 8200i SE film scanner review | Digital Camera World

If you look at my Flickr from the signature link and search for 8100 there will be around 500 images on a variety of B/W film.

You do say "for smaller formats" do I assume you are shooting 120 as well? In which case consider an Epson V850 flat bed, again good results for little hassle I found, try V850 as search on my images around 2,000 to look at both 35mm and 120 format an odd 5x4, actually half plate, as well mixed in.

 

 

[plaidshirts]

After trying the various methods mentioned above in the last few years, I've settled on a Nikon Coolscan 5000 with an SA-30 adapter which enables full film roll scanning (up to 40 frames) using Nikon Scan 4 software.

It seems to be the best IQ/efficiency combination.

[chris_livsey]

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15 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

After trying the various methods mentioned above in the last few years, I've settled on a Nikon Coolscan 5000 with an SA-30 adapter which enables full film roll scanning (up to 40 frames) using Nikon Scan 4 software.

It seems to be the best IQ/efficiency combination.

They are selling for over £1,000 and S/H of course, I do accept the quality is there, provided one careful none commercial owner, but Fire Wire 400 connection (remember that) and 64 bit drivers are "adapted" if you have the set up good if you are starting from scratch I suggest a struggle is ahead.

[Ben Droste]

24 minutes ago, chris_livsey said:

They are selling for over £1,000 and S/H of course, I do accept the quality is there, provided one careful none commercial owner, but Fire Wire 400 connection (remember that) and 64 bit drivers are "adapted" if you have the set up good if you are starting from scratch I suggest a struggle is ahead.

 

[Ben Droste]

Dear Leica M analog friends,

Many thanks for your quick replies and usefull advise. I will keep you posted!

If there is more, please let me know.

Thanks,  Ben 

[plaidshirts]

10 hours ago, chris_livsey said:

They are selling for over £1,000 and S/H of course, I do accept the quality is there, provided one careful none commercial owner, but Fire Wire 400 connection (remember that) and 64 bit drivers are "adapted" if you have the set up good if you are starting from scratch I suggest a struggle is ahead.

5000 connects via usb and works well on windows 10 and even 11 (plenty of examples if you google). I agree though, the initial investment will be pricy. 

[jensthoes]

Am 21.11.2023 um 16:38 schrieb Ben Droste:

Dear Forum,

 

I am a very longtime Leica M analog user (presently M6 and M2) , still developping film and printing my own negatives (with a Focomat 2C). However I am not shy of using digital, Leica cameras like the D-Lux series.

Next to making my own prints in the darkroom I also digitalize my negatives. Up till now with a relative simple Reflecta scanner. The results are usable for smaller formats but they are not up to Leica standards.

My question: what type of scanner should I use short of professional flatbed scanners? With the latter the scanning proces is slow.

 

Thanks for your answers.

 

Ben Droste

 

 

 

...try to find a professional flatbed scanner from the golden age of these machines (1980s/1990s) - Linotype-Hell, Heidelberg, Creo-Scitex Eversmart...

I use a Linotype-Hell Topaz II flatbed scanner since 15 years (with an old PowerMacintosh G4). The results are amazing and the workflow with the original software Lincocolor is near perfect.

Not easy to find such machines today for an good price, but not impossible,

Best Jens

 

[TomB_tx]

This looks like an interesting choice:

https://www.freestylephoto.com/8501236-Negative-Supply-Essential-35mm-Film-Scanning-Freestyle-Exclusive

[BernardC]

I use an old bellows with a slide holder. Every system used to offer something similar in the film days. Novoflex still does.

In a nutshell, a macro bellows attaches to your camera, a macro lens attaches to that (I use an enlarging lens on an LTM adapter), and an extra "slide holder" is attached to the front of the whole contraption. The system is mounted on a tripod, and pointed at an evenly illuminated white wall. A light table of flash would work just as well. It's clunky, but it works.

The Freestyle system linked above looks very tidy. You just need to provide a digital camera with a macro lens. You'll need a 1:1 macro if your camera is "full frame" and you have 35mm negatives. You only need 1:2 if your camera is micro-four-thirds or APS-C, or if your negatives are bigger than 135 format. You might still need to crop a little, but not much.

[250swb]

17 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

This looks like an interesting choice:

https://www.freestylephoto.com/8501236-Negative-Supply-Essential-35mm-Film-Scanning-Freestyle-Exclusive

A similar kit could be put together cheaper, but it's a good recommendation for a beginner especially as all the new terms can start to sound like gobbledygook. 

[Ben Droste]

On 11/24/2023 at 9:17 AM, 250swb said:

A similar kit could be put together cheaper, but it's a good recommendation for a beginner especially as all the new terms can start to sound like gobbledygook. 

 

[Ben Droste]

On 11/24/2023 at 9:17 AM, 250swb said:

 

 

December 29, 2023

 

Dear Friends,

 

I just bought a Plustek 8100 scanner. It looks and feels solid and good. But up till now it doen not follow the general rule that all that looks good must be good. I have installed the scanner on my PC and followed all the instructions. The results are however very disappointing so far. By far not as good as my much simpler and cheaper Reflecta scanner. Whatever I do in manipulating the settings for exposure and contrast and all the other available buttons, the result remains a flat grey uninspiring picture that I would not dare to send to the LFI forum. I hope I am doing something wrong but up till now I am waiting for an answer by the Plustek Serveice desk.

 

Any ideas how to get it right?

 

Ben Droste

[Tom R]

2 hours ago, Ben Droste said:

 

December 29, 2023

 

Dear Friends,

 

I just bought a Plustek 8100 scanner. It looks and feels solid and good. But up till now it doen not follow the general rule that all that looks good must be good. I have installed the scanner on my PC and followed all the instructions. The results are however very disappointing so far. By far not as good as my much simpler and cheaper Reflecta scanner. Whatever I do in manipulating the settings for exposure and contrast and all the other available buttons, the result remains a flat grey uninspiring picture that I would not dare to send to the LFI forum. I hope I am doing something wrong but up till now I am waiting for an answer by the Plustek Serveice desk.

 

Any ideas how to get it right?

 

Ben Droste

What software are you using with this Plustek unit? I use both SilverFast and Vuescan with that particular scanner. Vuescan, as you likely know, provides very few "presets," such as Kodak TMAX 100 or TMAX 400, whereas SiverFast provides a few more "presets," such as PlusX, TriX, etc. A lot depends upon one's expectation: A "purist" for example, might desire a perfectly "flat" scan and depend upon PostProcessing software to "recreate" the image as it might appear on a particular film. Another might want the scanned image to be close to the "final" image--likely requiring only minor defect removal in PostProcessing.

[250swb]

4 hours ago, Ben Droste said:

 

Whatever I do in manipulating the settings for exposure and contrast and all the other available buttons, the result remains a flat grey uninspiring picture that I would not dare to send to the LFI forum.k.

 

Any ideas how to get it right?

 

Ben Droste

Fantastic, flat and grey is what you need from a scanner so you are sure the entire histogram is covered without spikes at the highlight and shadow ends. You could try pressing 'Auto Contrast' in Lightroom or Photoshop, or indeed have your own opinion about how to render the contrast and then use the tools available in post processing software. The idea that a scanner can simply make images suitable to post is a rather simplistic idea, some work is necessary because software can't interpret what is in your minds eye.

Edited December 29, 2023 by 250swb

[Ben Droste]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:18 PM, 250swb said:

Fantastic, flat and grey is what you need from a scanner so you are sure the entire histogram is covered without spikes at the highlight and shadow ends. You could try pressing 'Auto Contrast' in Lightroom or Photoshop, or indeed have your own opinion about how to render the contrast and then use the tools available in post processing software. The idea that a scanner can simply make images suitable to post is a rather simplistic idea, some work is necessary because software can't interpret what is in your minds eye.

 

On 12/29/2023 at 10:18 PM, 250swb said:

Fantastic, flat and grey is what you need from a scanner so you are sure the entire histogram is covered without spikes at the highlight and shadow ends. You could try pressing 'Auto Contrast' in Lightroom or Photoshop, or indeed have your own opinion about how to render the contrast and then use the tools available in post processing software. The idea that a scanner can simply make images suitable to post is a rather simplistic idea, some work is necessary because software can't interpret what is in your minds eye.

Dear friends,

 

I have finally mastered the Plustek 8100. I think it is a very good scanner with multiple functions to get your Leica Black and white pictures in the tonality etc. that you are striving for. However two questions remain:

1. The Plustek performance goes up to a maximum of 7200 dpi. I donot see much improvement over the 1200 or even 600 dpi setting. Any ideas?

2. The iSRD dust and scratch removal function supposedly also works for black and white. However I have not  mastered that yet. I have asked Plustek Support and will post its answer once I receive it.

 

Regards,

Ben Droste

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Tom R]

The manufacturer claims 7200 but, I believe, that the actual (realizable) maximum is 3600—so use that setting.

Regarding ISRD: if I recall correctly, ISRD will not work with traditional panchromatic films because the base is too thick. Color films  (or panchromatci films that utilize color film coating technologies) might be the exception. I use Affinity for post processing and it has numerous healing brushes that will easily handle most of the scratches and other imperfections that you may encounter. I’m sure that other softwares are also adequate to the task.