Leica M11 -purplish tint ???

[andybarton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks Andy. 

This proves that if you want to get the best from your $10,000 camera body “investment”, you do have to put a bit of effort into it. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, Overgaard said:

 

Considering a Leica camera of any model comes out of the box preset to AWB, I would presume quite a lot of people use AWB.

 

Those people don’t calibrate their computer screens anyway, nor print,  so no harm done. 

[jaapv]

@ Adan:  I did not know these were still to be found!  https://www.ebay.com/itm/195794438960

[Velo-city]

On 11/7/2024 at 9:40 AM, Velo-city said:

Gutted to say that I can confirm my M11 suffers from a fairly strong magenta bias using AWB outside.  .....

I will reach out to Leica on this point (and a few others) as it would be such a trivial thing for them to add a customisation in for a magenta offset when using AWB. 

Circling back to my own post, and not wishing to fan the flames or anything, but having now used the camera quite a bit more with WB settings other than AWB, I will say that - on my camera - this magenta bias is present outside of AWB.  Sadly I dont think it's consistent either.  As my M11 is still in warranty I'm going to ask if it's possible to get it recalibrated, and then decide what to do.  Meanwhile I'll work around it, but I don't really find the unmodified colour output from camera that pleasing TBH.

I knew going in this may be an issue - hence all my research - so it's not a shock but still a bit disappointing.

[Derbyshire Man]

If a series are all shot on daylight can you not just set up a user preset to move from magenta -> green?

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, Velo-city said:

Circling back to my own post, and not wishing to fan the flames or anything, but having now used the camera quite a bit more with WB settings other than AWB, I will say that - on my camera - this magenta bias is present outside of AWB.  Sadly I dont think it's consistent either.  As my M11 is still in warranty I'm going to ask if it's possible to get it recalibrated, and then decide what to do.  Meanwhile I'll work around it, but I don't really find the unmodified colour output from camera that pleasing TBH.

I knew going in this may be an issue - hence all my research - so it's not a shock but still a bit disappointing.

You can easily resolve this without the hassle of sending the thing to Leica - and very much quicker too. 

1. Buy an X-rite Colorchecker Passport - that won't break the bank
2. Photograph the colour cart in neutral light and on AWB. Noonday sun in autumn is just fine
3. Fire up your computer, open the Xrite software and drag the DNG into the first window
4. Follow the click-path and you are done - The profile file will be in the right LR, PS folder - name it My M11 or whatever takes your fancy.
5. Make "My M11" your M11 default import profile The software will recognize the camera and use the .correct profile each time.

The whole process only takes a few minutes or less. Far less than packing the camera for shipment. You can make profiles for any light, any camera.  If you get more proficient you can tweak the profiles to your taste too. Adobe has software for that purpose. 

I routinely do this for any new camera. The M240 and Pana S5 were worst - the CL and SL series the best  There my profiles were really close to the Adobe and embedded ones.

[andybarton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Could it be the lens?

[jaapv]

The point is that it has nothing to do with “calibration “. It is simply the interpretation of the embedded preset by the postprocesssing software. Now I am sure that Leica made a conscious choice in the firmware. Whether they are willing to rewrite that bit for an individual owner when it is a simple matter to tweak the camera profile is an open question. Especially as there are plenty of camera profiles to be found on the Internet. Some have been mentioned on this forum. 
Well, being the company they are, they might but who would send his camera in for weeks or months to find out? 

[jaapv]

55 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Could it be the lens?

Lenses do have a colour signature but Leica lenses are fairly consistent throughout the range. 

[andybarton]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Lenses do have a colour signature but Leica lenses are fairly consistent throughout the range. 

But, he uses a Voigtlander

[jaapv]

I never saw any significant variation with mine. But then I regard colour tweaking as an essential part of my workflow so I would not notice.  

[hdmesa]

8 hours ago, andybarton said:

Could it be the lens?...

...he uses a Voigtlander...

The one instance where my M11-D's auto white balance gave me an extremely magenta tint was when using the Voigtlander 50 f/3.5 APO without a UV filter. I've used a UV on it since, so I can't be sure if it was just the lighting conditions at the time (midday with high clouds and nothing but tan desert and faded sky color in the frame) or the filter or perhaps both.

If it is the lens, then it's probably not all Voigtlander lenses, but a few. Voigtlander has such a diverse lens lineup with regard to optics and coatings, it's hard to make generalizations.

I guess if a UV filter helps, then use one

[andybarton]

Well, @Velo-city only has one lens and it’s a Voigtlander, so that might be the root of the problem. 

I would suggest that he goes to the dealer from whom he bought the camera and ask to borrow a different lens - preferably a Leica one. 

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Well, @Velo-city only has one lens and it’s a Voigtlander, so that might be the root of the problem. 

I would suggest that he goes to the dealer from whom he bought the camera and ask to borrow a different lens - preferably a Leica one. 

I would try all of these:

• Leica lens or different Voigtlander lens
• High quality UV filter (B+W, Heliopan, Breakthrough, or Leica)
• Remove any clear protective filter or upgrade to a better one

If they bought their current filter off eBay, it will be a fake. Amazon is a crapshoot, usually fake as well.

[marchyman]

17 hours ago, jaapv said:

You can easily resolve this without the hassle of sending the thing to Leica - and very much quicker too. 

Yes.   That's what I do.  But (because I want to play contrarian :-)): Out-of-camera jpegs aren't right. On camera playback images aren't right.  Etc.

I've never used out-of-camera jpegs and don't expect camera LCDs to show proper colors.  Perhaps I'm in the minority.  I use color passport based profiles for all cameras that deliver raw images, not just Leica.  That works for me.  If I wanted to enable and use out-of-camera jpegs I might think otherwise.

[jaapv]

But then we have the Leica Looks" 🤩

[Mahesh]

On 11/8/2024 at 6:54 AM, andybarton said:

Thanks Andy. 

This proves that if you want to get the best from your $10,000 camera body “investment”, you do have to put a bit of effort into it. 

Not sure of this logic... you may want to put some effort in front of computer despite the price but you may not want to/should need to if you have spent a fortune. How hard it is to put good jpegs like Fuji or Hasselblad?

[andybarton]

So, you’re happy to spend ten grand on a camera, and accept jpgs from it as the finished image?

Fair enough. 

I spent about £3,000 on my M240, 10 years ago, and I’ve never accepted a jpg from the camera. I know that I can produce better than that. 

And, before you ask, “No, I can’t afford to trade in my M240 for a newer model”, but I do my best to get the best images I can from its DNGs.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Mahesh]

13 hours ago, andybarton said:

So, you’re happy to spend ten grand on a camera, and accept jpgs from it as the finished image?

Fair enough. 

I spent about £3,000 on my M240, 10 years ago, and I’ve never accepted a jpg from the camera. I know that I can produce better than that. 

And, before you ask, “No, I can’t afford to trade in my M240 for a newer model”, but I do my best to get the best images I can from its DNGs.

When did I say that! 

What I said was

1) you may want to put some effort in front of computer despite the price

2) you may not want to/should need to if you have spent a fortune.

3) How hard it is to put good jpegs like Fuji or Hasselblad?

Additionally 

4) I am not happy to spend anymore than 2-3k on a camera as it makes me worry about carrying it around (damage, theft, etc.)- your mileage may vary as everyone has a budget

5) I am happy to accept jpegs with very minor tweaks in case of my other Fuji gear. 

 

 

[lct]

16 hours ago, Mahesh said:

How hard it is to put good jpegs like Fuji or Hasselblad?

I have no experience with Hasselblad but the Fuji jpegs are by far the more difficult to tweak in post to me. Leica jpegs are much easier to tweak but colors are a subjective matter as you know. Now if you mean OoC jpegs, none of them Leica or Fuji are acceptable in my view. YMMV.