CL camera. Best non TL lenses, to give a 35 FOV

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I often use the Elmarit-M 24mm ASPH with my CL. Here are some recent low-resolution examples:

Melbourne as seen from the Yarra River - Landscape & Travel - Leica Forum (l-camera-forum.com)

Edited November 20, 2023 by Studienkamera

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[davidrc]

I am very encouraged by the responses and have delved into the image threads.

Won’t be difficult it seems to have something smaller as a wide to equal my R’s.

I may not have uploaded files here very well, having taken from LR to myself in an email, then into here.

But gives some idea of what i’ve achieved in really bad light with a tripod @ 1/4 sec. Iso 100.  R 50 f2.  Last pre rom.

Full image and large crop.  Very fine detail can be had in this manner.

Oddly full crop appears first!! 😀

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Edited November 21, 2023 by davidrc

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Just to support the 23 Summicron, here at f2 1/40 of a second. Maybe a little camera movement, but no complaint as to sharpness.

 

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[davidrc]

3 minutes ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

Just to support the 23 Summicron, here at f2 1/40 of a second. Maybe a little camera movement, but no complaint as to sharpness.

 

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Hard to evaluate anything without ruling out the obvious variables, which may send one off track.

If you are happy with it, great. 👍

I would say subject head movement rather than camera.  If you have areas which are sharp, it cannot be camera.

And strangely, areas which seem sharper than others when they shouldn’t be (BR corner, and RT edge further up)

As my copy was, defies optical logic.

I am not bashing the 23, can only go on what I found.  
 

Regards.

[davidrc]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:15 PM, mikeLD said:

Been through many of the same experiences including the 23mm TL on my wonderful CL, I recently decided to try the Sigma 23mm f1.4 DC DN even though it was at the limit of my weight and size boundry.  I am very pleasantly surprised.  It is an outstanding performer.  The IQ is great the range of options given by the very fast aperature and excellent auto focus have made it my EDC over my Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 and my former TLs including the 18mm and 23mm.  The photos I'm getting are as good or better than my former Q2.  I do not think I will ever go back.

Thanks.

any thoughts the smaller brother, the 23 f3.5?

[GFW2-SCUSA]

https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/gallery/cl-mastershots.html there is a tab on this wonderful LFI site just for CL images. Most pictures have the lens info as well as the location. Some very beautiful pictures from all Leica cameras.  There is also a useful index so you can narrow down your search by camera, subject etc.  

If lens speed isn't a bit issue I enjoy popping the tiny TTArtisan 28/5.6 M on the CL with the M-L adaptor. The lens quality is very good and the price is very low.  

 

[davidrc]

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5 hours ago, GFW2-SCUSA said:

https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/gallery/cl-mastershots.html there is a tab on this wonderful LFI site just for CL images. Most pictures have the lens info as well as the location. Some very beautiful pictures from all Leica cameras.  There is also a useful index so you can narrow down your search by camera, subject etc.  

If lens speed isn't a bit issue I enjoy popping the tiny TTArtisan 28/5.6 M on the CL with the M-L adaptor. The lens quality is very good and the price is very low.  

 

Thank you so much for the link.  It has been years and years since I was aware of the LFI and completely forgotten about it.

Just taken a look at the current site and it is wonderful.  A resource perhaps indeed, but what a way to while away your time looking at these images.

[Boojay]

Yes, when you look at the CL gallery of mastershots, if anyone needs reminding, it shows what a wonderful tool it is in the best hands.

 

[davidrc]

6 hours ago, Boojay said:

Yes, when you look at the CL gallery of mastershots, if anyone needs reminding, it shows what a wonderful tool it is in the best hands.

 

Yes, needs care and a decent lens!!! 

[davidrc]

On 11/19/2023 at 5:42 PM, dpitt said:

Nobody mentions the 21 mm Elmarit M lenses? I like them very much on my TL2, both pre-ASPH and ASPH.

21mm……even with it coming out at 30mm FOV, isn’t the dynamic of perspective much greater looking than a 23mm lens giving 35mm ?  The perspective will still be there.  Which not having seen for myself sort of puts me off 21’s.

I would have to see some examples on a cropped sensor, preferably a CL.

[dpitt]

5 hours ago, davidrc said:

21mm……even with it coming out at 30mm FOV, isn’t the dynamic of perspective much greater looking than a 23mm lens giving 35mm ?  The perspective will still be there.  Which not having seen for myself sort of puts me off 21’s.

I would have to see some examples on a cropped sensor, preferably a CL.

I do not have the Summicron 23, but i think the difference will be very small. On my TL2 the Elmarit 21mm M feels like a 35mm to me, not at all like a ultra wide. It is slower, but I do not mind too much. It is hard to get shallow DOF anyway and both the CL and TL2 have excellent high ISO performance.

From what I see, the quality of the Elmarit-M 21 ASPH is better than that of the Summicron 23 TL. Unfortunately I do not have it to compare directly.
These shots are with the non-ASPH 21mm Elmarit-M on the TL2, to give you an idea of the FOV. I have yet to try the ASPH 21mm on the TL2, but I know it will be sharper and have more contrast.

 

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[davidrc]

1 hour ago, dpitt said:

I do not have the Summicron 23, but i think the difference will be very small. On my TL2 the Elmarit 21mm M feels like a 35mm to me, not at all like a ultra wide. It is slower, but I do not mind too much. It is hard to get shallow DOF anyway and both the CL and TL2 have excellent high ISO performance.

From what I see, the quality of the Elmarit-M 21 ASPH is better than that of the Summicron 23 TL. Unfortunately I do not have it to compare directly.
These shots are with the non-ASPH 21mm Elmarit-M on the TL2, to give you an idea of the FOV. I have yet to try the ASPH 21mm on the TL2, but I know it will be sharper and have more contrast.

 

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Hi,

Thanks very much, that’s really helpful.  Particularly the photo mural with the girl shows very little convergence at all. 
I assume that is a full frame.
A little bit of barrel on the extreme edge? Between the ground floor and first floors on window frames.

But, no, not a lot of a 21mm look about it.

Hard to tell from a file upload on sharpness, but the way the lens handles the rendition it is way ahead.
Which is what I would expect.

If it does have a little more perspective than a 24, then it appears to be small.  
On a apsc camera where the lens is designed solely for a cropped sensor, the perspective may be slightly different?  Which to this point has been my background.
 

A member has suggested a sigma 24, which has examples in good order on flickr.  Some other non leica M lenses seem to be difficult to pick one without too compromise on something with it, so save for a Leica M lens or the sigma for a few years would seem to be it.  Skopar seems a compromise from what I have seen at 21.

Thanks again.

[dpitt]

As with all lenses, the perspective is distorted more when tilted upwards. That is why the girl photo looks better. In the other one I was in a confined space, so I had no choice but to tilt my lens towards the sky to get everything in the frame. As you can see, both were almost full frame.

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Leica designed these lenses for the M. So even on the FF M camera they will be very good. With APS-C you cut off the most problematic area's, so you will only use the best part. Design for APS-C lenses is a compromise between cost, size and other things, as with all lenses. They will never cover full frame (APSC or FF) and always will have an acceptable degree of 'faults' towards the edges.

I like the performance of this old non-ASPH lens very much, even on FF, but I must admit the ASPH version is even better.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by dpitt

[davidrc]

10 hours ago, dpitt said:

As with all lenses, the perspective is distorted more when tilted upwards. That is why the girl photo looks better. In the other one I was in a confined space, so I had no choice but to tilt my lens towards the sky to get everything in the frame. As you can see, both were almost full frame.

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Leica designed these lenses for the M. So even on the FF M camera they will be very good. With APS-C you cut off the most problematic area's, so you will only use the best part. Design for APS-C lenses is a compromise between cost, size and other things, as with all lenses. They will never cover full frame (APSC or FF) and always will have an acceptable degree of 'faults' towards the edges.

I like the performance of this old non-ASPH lens very much, even on FF, but I must admit the ASPH version is even better.

 

I agree, lovely quality to the lens.  But the T sensor is nice so it gets some credit.

No different to any other system lenses for sure.  I am not ruling out a R 24mm, keeping usage in the same stable.

so, I have 4 choices.  It’s all been very helpful across the forum. Everything has to be learned.

[Shawn30]

One of the lens’s I like most on the CL (besides the 18mm) is the Sigma 30mm f1.4. Wide open its much sharper than the 23mm in the center but not the edges. You have to stop it down to get edge to edge sharpness. To me it has a different look and character than the TL lens’s. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Shawn30

[davidrc]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:17 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Yes, I mean Sigma L mount lenses. Sigma lenses are excellent in my general experience. I use the 24mm 3.5 and 105mm alongside my APO Summicrons on the SL2 and they fit right in. The 105mm is at essentially the same quality (that is, nothing really to criticize) and the 24mm is not quite as sharp, but still excellent across the whole frame. My problem with the 23mm was that it was noticeably soft...just soft. Otherwise it had a pleasing enough character, but my adapted M lenses like the 35mm 1.4 FLE were much better. That said, I more or less gave up on the T and got a Ricoh GRIIIx, which does the job of compact camera better for me, and has an extremely sharp lens.

Hi,

i’ve taken advice and received a 24mm sigma L to use with my CL.  About using, apart from the obvious lens and A and M setting,

a few hints and tips on how to use in various ways?  The camera setting to manually tweak auto focus after?  Should that be attempted? 
I don’t want to mess anything up.  I would imagine not, and if not set correctly, just won’t do the action and then find what will?

correct?

[Stuart Richardson]

I am not quite clear on what you mean with the last part, but I would say in general you would use it the same as a Leica lens. If I were planning on doing AF, I would use the autofocus as normal. If it did not focus on exactly what I wanted, I would choose a single point or spot autofocus mode (which I normally do anyway), rather than adjust manually. If I were doing manual focus to begin with, I think you just do it that way as normal, with the main difference being that you might need to do it on the lens, instead of in the menus. I don't recall if you can use AF and then adjust the focus with the ring while holding the shutter down...I don't really photograph that way, so it has not come up. As I mentioned, I stick to the precision autofocus spots that will focus on what I choose, rather than the modes that read the scene and pick their own focus. I don't find much luck with those modes in general.

[davidrc]

17 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not quite clear on what you mean with the last part, but I would say in general you would use it the same as a Leica lens. If I were planning on doing AF, I would use the autofocus as normal. If it did not focus on exactly what I wanted, I would choose a single point or spot autofocus mode (which I normally do anyway), rather than adjust manually. If I were doing manual focus to begin with, I think you just do it that way as normal, with the main difference being that you might need to do it on the lens, instead of in the menus. I don't recall if you can use AF and then adjust the focus with the ring while holding the shutter down...I don't really photograph that way, so it has not come up. As I mentioned, I stick to the precision autofocus spots that will focus on what I choose, rather than the modes that read the scene and pick their own focus. I don't find much luck with those modes in general.

Quite agree. Manual or single point focus. 
I may have been expecting some drawback, but the switch is great. The value of a lens with an A M switch cannot be overstated on a camera like a CL.  The TL was restrictive, having to use the menus.

I just wondered, since i’ve never ever owned a lens with a switch.  Since the Sigma is not really any much bigger than the 23TL,
I think Leica could be missing a trick.

The switch makes going through different settings a breeze. Assists, does not hinder.
 

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[davidrc]

To those following…..i’d like to have some thoughts as to why my R 35mm f2.8 elmarit 3 cam, leitz….didn't perform nearly as well as my R 50 cron. f2, last one before Rom came in.

It was hard to focus accurately, or rather it looked in focus when it wasn’t. And it looks as though the left side of the image produced is not as sharp.  Decentred?.  The adapter used was a a Urth product.  Suffice to say the 50 cron was easy accurate and from the limited use so far, is more evenly sharp.

Ultimately, I would like to use M lens when I can afford them, but also for many reasons.  Am I likely to find inconsistencies with adapter makes?   I know jaapv recommends one in particular and it’s been noted.  There are many out there.

My mind went to lens compatibility since the R lens seems ok. I will be using much more and trying to definitively prove the adapter in or out.

Problem is, could it be a tricky thing to do, using something like a 24mm adapted lens?  The 21mm samples I have been shown looked ok. I must try to view those on a computer though. 

Thoughts?

[aj55]

Just yesterday bought the least expensive L-mount lens you can imagine. This so I would have a smallish camera to take along leaving the SL2-S at home.

Manual focus so not a fast point-and-shoot setup. New price? €75 😉

Took a shot across the street from my home just to give an idea.....

Cheers, Arnold

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Edited December 17, 2023 by aj55