Surreal waiting times for lens repair and maintenance at Leica Germany

[thrid]

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On 2/24/2024 at 12:00 PM, 69xchange said:

Someone on Reddit posted that Leica is currently not accepting analog repair requests. He states he got his sources from a Leica store which I find hard to believe as Leica site still  currently says 10+ months for analog repairs.

A while back I heard  that Leica USA are no longer servicing film bodies in-house. Instead it is all being outsourced to independent repair shops like DAG, etc.
I'm not sure if that also applies to current film cameras they are still making or only to out of production models. Last I heard DAG etc will not service digital M bodies.

The same may apply to vintage glass. I dropped off my Summcron-DR for a CLA at the San Francisco store and it went to DAG. Turn around time was reasonable (4 weeks?).
 

Edited March 11, 2024 by thrid

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[69xchange]

2 hours ago, vinicio said:

I sent my MP in Wetzlar on June 6th 2023; it’s still there and none can tell me when it will be back. When I accepted the proposal to repair the camera, with upfront payment, estimated time to have this back was 27 weeks.

Is this acceptable from a brand like this?

I dont recall Leica asking payment upfront...

[thrid]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:54 AM, odoomi said:

I gave them a call the other day asking for an estimated price for a lens repair.

The gentlemen on the phone was very nice and was telling me that in the last year analog photography was getting a serious hype they did not expect and account for. They receive unexpected high amounts of old camera gear to be repaired which also in average takes much longer than just a quick calibration of newer gear here and there. Everybody is taking out their old Leicas and get them fixed right now... that's the problem... 

Must be due to that recent 30% price cut on Tri-X.

🙃

Edited March 11, 2024 by thrid

[69xchange]

1 minute ago, thrid said:

A while back I heard  that Leica USA are no longer servicing film bodies in-house. Instead it is all being outsourced to independent repair shops like DAG, etc.
I'm not sure if that also applies to current film cameras they are still making or only to out of production models. Last I heard DAG etc will not service digital M bodies.

The same may apply to vintage glass. I dropped off my Summcron-DR for a CLA at the San Francisco store and it went to DAG. Turn around time was reasonable.
 

I just sent a lens in to Leica NJ for CLA and they told me 4 weeks turnaround. I wonder if they are sending it to DAG or to Germany or doing it in house. DAG already has another one of my lenses and started ignoring my emails about updates.

[TomB_tx]

A few times I've had extended waits with repair techs. Two different techs took over 3 years to return a couple of my cameras, and another was 2 years on a lens. I've been waiting several years for a Contax tech to ask for my camera - but he seems to be out of business now, and I haven't found anyone else rated for pre-war Contax.

I don't stress over such things, but I don't use the stuff to make a living - just for pleasure. I figure if it doesn't work right it's no use as it is, so even if it never comes back I'll just cross it off my possessions (and the tech from those I'd use).

[69xchange]

27 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

A few times I've had extended waits with repair techs. Two different techs took over 3 years to return a couple of my cameras, and another was 2 years on a lens. I've been waiting several years for a Contax tech to ask for my camera - but he seems to be out of business now, and I haven't found anyone else rated for pre-war Contax.

I don't stress over such things, but I don't use the stuff to make a living - just for pleasure. I figure if it doesn't work right it's no use as it is, so even if it never comes back I'll just cross it off my possessions (and the tech from those I'd use).

That is unfortunate. I always wonder what will happen if you send an equipment to a private repair person (not saying any name to jinx/curse or wish it upon them) and during the prolong turnaround time, if an unfortunate event were to happen to the repair technician (such as accidental death, myocardio infarction, cerebral vascular attack and ect.), how would one proceed with getting their equipment back or would it just be deemed as a loss? Would private insurance or insurance of the repair tech (assuming they have coverage) cover this?

The reason I ask was because one well known hasselblad repair tech who is retired and operates in his own home passed away last year from an accidental death (at least from what I heard). I was debating on sending him some of my equipment for CLA prior to the unfortunate event. Regardless, it was really sad to hear about his passing.

[erudolph]

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39 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

A few times I've had extended waits with repair techs. Two different techs took over 3 years to return a couple of my cameras, and another was 2 years on a lens. I've been waiting several years for a Contax tech to ask for my camera - but he seems to be out of business now, and I haven't found anyone else rated for pre-war Contax.

I don't stress over such things, but I don't use the stuff to make a living - just for pleasure. I figure if it doesn't work right it's no use as it is, so even if it never comes back I'll just cross it off my possessions (and the tech from those I'd use).

For your pre-war Contax, you might try contacting Yakov Dubinsky.  Advance Camera is the name of his business, located in San Francisco.

[TomB_tx]

12 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

The reason I ask was because one well known hasselblad repair tech who is retired and operates in his own home passed away last year from an accidental death (at least from what I heard). I was debating on sending him some of my equipment for CLA prior to the unfortunate event. Regardless, it was really sad to hear about his passing.

Yes, I read about that. He had serviced my Hasselblad & lens several years ago - great job and fast.

[TomB_tx]

9 minutes ago, erudolph said:

For your pre-war Contax, you might try contacting Yakov Dubinsky.  Advance Camera is the name of his business, located in San Francisco.

Thanks, I'll check on that.

[oldwino]

28 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

That is unfortunate. I always wonder what will happen if you send an equipment to a private repair person (not saying any name to jinx/curse or wish it upon them) and during the prolong turnaround time, if an unfortunate event were to happen to the repair technician (such as accidental death, myocardio infarction, cerebral vascular attack and ect.), how would one proceed with getting their equipment back or would it just be deemed as a loss? Would private insurance or insurance of the repair tech (assuming they have coverage) cover this?

The reason I ask was because one well known hasselblad repair tech who is retired and operates in his own home passed away last year from an accidental death (at least from what I heard). I was debating on sending him some of my equipment for CLA prior to the unfortunate event. Regardless, it was really sad to hear about his passing.

There’s an older gentleman who does repairs on folding cameras here In the US who states on his website that he logs in each camera that comes in for repair, but doesn’t open the mailing box until he does the repair. That way, if he dies, his wife can simply send all of the unopened boxes back to the respective owners. 

[vinicio]

8 hours ago, 69xchange said:

I dont recall Leica asking payment upfront...

I can send you copy of the proforma invoice if you have/had difference experiences in your past.

in Italy it’s the normal procedure ☺️

[84bravo]

As a working professional I would welcome a pro service similar to Canon and Nikon. Both are subscription models that provide 48 hour repairs at a significant discount and loaners. In addition, I have a rep I can call on for technical help. NPS and CPS used to be free but now costs about $350 a year. I look at it as a service contract and worth every penny.

Leica could do similar with a subscription model like Canon and Nikon, further vetted by proving professional status. In the past Nikon used to require documentation such as copies of a press credential, published clips, etc. Leica might pick up a percent or two of professional photographers as well with better support.

I suspect that Leica operates with a small staff it would be a difficult sell to the bean counters at Wetzlar, though.

[hjddd]

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[overexposed]

1 hour ago, hjddd said:

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[Sebastian S]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb 84bravo:

As a working professional I would welcome a pro service similar to Canon and Nikon. Both are subscription models that provide 48 hour repairs at a significant discount and loaners. In addition, I have a rep I can call on for technical help. NPS and CPS used to be free but now costs about $350 a year. I look at it as a service contract and worth every penny.

Leica could do similar with a subscription model like Canon and Nikon, further vetted by proving professional status. In the past Nikon used to require documentation such as copies of a press credential, published clips, etc. Leica might pick up a percent or two of professional photographers as well with better support.

I suspect that Leica operates with a small staff it would be a difficult sell to the bean counters at Wetzlar, though.

more money for the company by a subscription model doesn't change the fact that they don't have enough technicans. it takes years to train them so they are up to standards and protocols. such a thing would worsen the already bad situation for "regular customers". and imagine everybody signs up to the service plan and they still can't deliver because of mentioned shortage of technicans. that's no solution atm.

[84bravo]

4 hours ago, Sebastian S said:

and they still can't deliver because of mentioned shortage of technicans. that's no solution atm.

See my last sentence.

Edited March 13, 2024 by 84bravo

[rscheffler]

My most recent lens repair with Leica was a front element replacement that Leica US sent to Germany. IIRC, the full turnaround time was around 4-5 months back at the beginning of 2022.

Leica's repair turnaround time has been a problem as long as I've been a Leica user (since 2010) and pales in comparison to my good experience with Canon's CPS (in Canada), including before their current Professional Services subscription. I was skeptical about their move to the subscription model, but they actually invested in and improved their system. Their loaner pool was considerably expanded - I've since always been able to get direct replacement loaners of specific cameras or lenses when I had an emergency service requirement. But they also improved their turnaround and the 'first try' successful repair rate increased (where previously something often had to be sent in again because it wasn't fixed the first time). The ability to access loaner equipment for as long as a repair takes, is IMO extremely valuable. I had a super-tele lens repair that took nearly two months due to parts shortage, but I had their loaner lens the whole time and could continue to work normally, without having to source a suitable replacement/alternative myself at additional cost to that of the repair (which was itself a couple thousand dollars).

For Canon, Nikon and now also Sony, they definitely have a large number of professional photographers using their systems who require and benefit from expedited and prioritized professional services. I can only imagine this is a much smaller number for Leica, which I believe offered a paid expedited service/support program for S system users. I'm not sure if it's still the case with Leica Germany but there is/was a paid express service option available for anyone willing to pay for it, that offered either 48 hours or one week turnaround. I actually used this once back in 2011 to service a lens during a trip to Germany and it was done as promised within 48 hours. I believe it was just under 200 Euro for the fastest service option.

Implementing a proper "LPS" (Leica Professional Services) system would be quite costly, both in manpower, the required pool of loaner equipment (that otherwise would generate revenue through retail sales) and related service equipment and space. How many Leica users would subscribe and what would the annual cost be? 

As it currently stands, building a Leica system, especially if you use it to generate revenue and want to use it as a primary system, requires a fairly significant investment in additional back up equipment (at least a second body and some lenses to cover the primary system). Cost of backup lenses could be offset by Voigtlander options rather than Leica, but this isn't possible with the cameras. And Leica benefits from this through equipment sales rather than spending money on the huge upfront investment in expanded service support. As we know, compared to the competition, Leica is an expensive system from the cost of entry perspective. But also as a working photographer, to have suitable backups for a Leica system increases the cost considerably more when arguably, other systems can also do the job more economically. Using Leica professionally is IMO a personal, subjective decision and not truly a rational one based on best ROI.

The majority of Leica sales are not to working photographers but my guess is that many sales are to more affluent customers who value an enjoyable sales and ownership experience. On the sales side, I believe Leica has accomplished this with their Leica Stores. Unfortunately sales support, at least in respect to acceptable turnaround times, does not provide for an enjoyable ownership experience once something with the equipment malfunctions. 

As an aside, regarding the difficulty with hiring/training techs: I've had conversations with service managers from a major office equipment brand who indicated they are dealing with an aging workforce near retirement and have had extreme difficulty retaining young hires. They say it's an industry-wide problem. Apparently they even resorted to hiring a tech out of retirement who was not physically up to the job but had the required experience...

Edited March 15, 2024 by rscheffler

[RMF]

Not sure how much technical work might/could be offloaded at the newest designed Leica 2.0 concept boutiques, but at both the new Leica Bellevue and new Leica NYC Meatpacking district shops, they have set up stations for doing some minor repairs.  See the Leica Meatpacking- see 9:01  for the tech booth. I also saw this at the Leica Bellevue store.

 

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[Al Brown]

On 3/15/2024 at 10:18 PM, RMF said:

they have set up stations for doing some minor repairs

Leicashop in Vienna and the Customer Care part of Wetzlar HQ shop in Leitz Park (and others) have had stations for minor repairs for long. Nothing even remotely 2.0, but the idea is cool. The problem is that "minor repairs" would quickly involve expensive equipment and parts for all different cameras and they would no longer be quick.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Al Brown

[username]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:47 PM, Anbaric said:

The message this sends is - don't buy new lenses (or film cameras) from Leica, because they can't honour their guarantee in a reasonable time frame. (...)

It's really time someone challenged them on this the next time Leica management take part in one of those interviews/PR events.

Seeing this post is over a year old now I was genuinely wondering - did Leica actually ever adress this issue in the meantime, I mean publically?
Was there any kind of explaination or statement in regards to the waiting times at all?

I guess not.. but it boggles the mind how they can apparently just sit there and shrug their shoulders, saying "well you just gotta wait a couple months".
Truly feel sorry for the people at Leica HQ that have to communicate with all the frustrated customers on a daily basis.