To M11-P, or not to M11-P…That is the Question

[costa43]

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It’s probably best not to base your decision on longevity. Both the m11 and m10 generation have a pretty equal chance of growing old and reaching a similar age before passing away, it’s just luck of the draw on the individual body you have. I have an m8u that is still going strong a good 17 years since it’s release. I also think that although somebody’s intention is to keep a camera for a long time, heads can be turned by the latest and greatest further down the line. 
 

I had a similar decision recently and opted for the m10r over the m11 after having a play with both. It’s a wonderful camera that has no evident faults or quirks. If it had the battery life of the m11, I would be delighted though. I think the point I’m trying to make is that it doesn’t really matter which one you opt for. A used m10 is a great buy as you will be able to trade up in the future without really losing much in value, should you choose too of course. If finances have little impact on your decision making then the m11p is the best Leica have to offer in 2023. 

[RedDotLurker]

I had been in the market for an M11 for a while and waited to see what the -P variant had to offer. For many the larger storage, stronger rear lcd, and debadged are easily worth $200. I feel the red dot is iconic and I wanted it over the top plate script. I wish there had been a way to put the red dot on the -P as that would have given me all the options for MY preference. I ended up choosing the standard M11 and over the last three weeks it’s been a wonderful camera and I’m so happy with my first Silver M. The M10-P I feel was a little more a technical jump over the standard 10 vs the 11P being a closer variant to the standard. You can’t really go wrong with either!

[rfunnell]

I have had my M11-P for over a month and initially had the same issue with white balance and colour not being as pleasing as my old M10R however this article sorted all my issues out and I am more than happy with the results which are as.good as my M10R were to my eyes.

Essentially this preset that you can download from Reddotforum is applied to all imported images in Lightroom CC   .. voila .

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/04/lightroom-presets-for-leica-cameras/

 

[don daniel]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb rfunnell:

I have had my M11-P for over a month and initially had the same issue with white balance and colour not being as pleasing as my old M10R however this article sorted all my issues out and I am more than happy with the results which are as.good as my M10R were to my eyes.

Essentially this preset that you can download from Reddotforum is applied to all imported images in Lightroom CC   .. voila .

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/04/lightroom-presets-for-leica-cameras/

 

This Preset for the M11 does not correct the white balance, it does not change the color profiles, it only oversaturates the colors and pushes the contrast. It does not solve any problem. On the contrary: It is horrible unless you shoot landcapes which need more vibrance and contrast.

[M11 for me]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb don daniel:

It does not solve any problem

Shouldn't it be: It does not solve any of my problems?

😇🥵

Edited December 8, 2023 by M11 for me

[Steadimann]

3 hours ago, don daniel said:

This Preset for the M11 does not correct the white balance, it does not change the color profiles, it only oversaturates the colors and pushes the contrast. It does not solve any problem. On the contrary: It is horrible unless you shoot landcapes which need more vibrance and contrast.

I like their preset. Yes, it is saturated, but it works for me  colours are nice, contrast is good. I enjoy it.

[otto.f]

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Would be nice to see some examples that underpin these various tastes. If members see for instance in post #26 of this thread an example of how they can reach the same colors as with the M10-R I’m convinced they’ve got totally different eyes or brains for color reception than me and quite a few others. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by otto.f

[rfunnell]

Your right 'Don Daniel'    no white balance correction is provided with the preset and yes I do mainly take landscapes which is why I like the 'look' .

Once again it is completely a subjective thing.

So is the thing we don't like about the image coming natively from the M11 Lightroom's interpretation with the Adobe presets ?

[don daniel]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb rfunnell:

So is the thing we don't like about the image coming natively from the M11 Lightroom's interpretation with the Adobe presets ?

I have no doubt that for landscape shots you can be completely fine with the colors out of the M11 and also with such plugins although I don't like the magenta touch to the sky in normal daylight. But the magenta bias has nothing to do with Adobe. You can import the DNGs to Capture One and you will not see a better corrected tint in white balance. No other Leica camera seems to show this magenta bias. But I must say, I only know all the M-models and the Q and the Q2 by my own experience. I do not know the SL-cameras from Leica apart from a few shots I took just to try them. And I do not judge cameras that I haven't really used and do not give advice how files of such cameras should be treated.

Edited December 9, 2023 by don daniel

[jecusial]

Sixty years apart, a M3 vintage 1963 and a 2023 M11-P. I hesitated switching to an M11-P after owning a well liked M10-R for several years but the few changes like higher resolution, weight, easy battery access, and the nice aesthetics are welcome. 

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[RustyBug]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:58 PM, algrove said:

Agree, especially where WB is concerned as these 2 cameras have a completely different metering system and other settings that can easily influence the outcomes..

 

On 11/9/2023 at 7:44 PM, BillCB said:

I find comparisons done outdoors rather unreliable - unless thay are literally shot simultaneously. One little wisp of cloud passing can alter colour balance significantly - which is why Sean uses controlled lighting.

But I like both shots!

+1 ... if I'm gonna compare cameras, it is going to be:

1) On a tripod
2) Same lens (not just same model on two diff bodies)
3) Same WB setting (6500 is my pref, to reveal fullest spectrum, least cast and color of light in use).  Alternatively, manual WB set to light source temp.
4) Same ISO (i.e. both at 100)
5) Same aperture (on same lens).  Also, there can be variations in aperture when one stops down to vs. opens up to a given aperture, so if making adjustments, be consistent in the direction.

6) Same Shutter Speed
7) Same light

Noting that when we move from different base ISO's ... the base ISO's need to be captured as well, but I'll start at the lowest common ISO available, and use the highest common ISO available.

Using different programming / metering from different cameras ... that tells us about the differences in metering and programming.  PRIOR to understanding those differences, I seek to REMOVE those differences from the number of variables, and then standardize the other variables, to reduce it to as few variables as possible.

Otherwise, you get all the "well, what about this and that" that could influence the diff's.  And, since we've all been around long enough to know that you CAN take any profile, and PP it to some other profile, well ... I want to see what the native raw file looks like, to see if there's a difference that I need to understand / compensate for.

 

Then, there's the matter of using the programming for exposure in the field, but that's a whole 'nother chapter, whether the programming in the metering is "protective" of highlights, or WYSIWYG (i.e. expose properly).  But, again ... starting point for me is to compare with as many variables removed as I can possilby get rid of.  Then, let the chips fall where they may. 😉