JPEG settings for M262

[thedirektor]

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As a very lazy person if find the whole RAW - Lightroom thing very boring, so JPEG for me please. But I have yet to find a pleasing JPEG setting for the M262. They are either too saturated or too bland. Any suggestions please ? Also, does anyone else just want JPEGs or should I just get off my sofa and do the Lightroom thang ? Thanks in advance you lovely Leica lot. 

[spydrxx]

You might experiment around with your metering to achieve the result you desire in JPEGs. Although I shoot RAW+JPEG, it is the JPEGs I tend to use, both for the WWW and for prints. BUT I do run them thru  some post processing, usually resizing them for whatever use I'm contemplating, touching up the colors and contrast if needed or desired, and usually applying a bit of sharpening. The process rarely takes more than 45 seconds - 1 minute. Perhaps a somewhat similar process would work for you.

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[dpitt]

I also like to keep my PP to an absolute minimum. But I also want to keep my options open. When I am shooting with an M, my main concern is the 'decisive moment' then focus and only after that exposure and framing. I used to shoot RAW + JPEG and used the JPEG when the exposure was close. Cropping and minimal adjustments to WB, exposure and contrast is what I do most. And I found that in most cases, I can get more pleasing results starting from the RAW within a minute. WB tweaking is much better with RAW, so if you have an issue with SOOC then that is the first thing to consider. Also with my M9, I have to work with limited dynamic range, and RAW saves a lot of HDR scenes where JPEG shots can not be recovered.

Recently I upgraded from an old version of LR to C1P v23, and my workflow got even faster. The auto function in C1P works great as a start and then it takes a few seconds to tweak. Capture One also has a great auto AI function to tweak skin tones and exposure across a shoot, if portraits is your thing. Now I just shoot RAW because it is so easy to improve on the SOOC. You could even start with importing and do Auto everything and get better results than the JPEG in most cases.

BTW:
If I shoot RAW, my M9 is so slow that the experience is similar to a D model. It takes so much time to save the shot that I do not CHIMP a lot. And when I shoot a few shots in rapid succession it takes so much time that I do not even bother. I found that it helps getting that film like anticipation when you get home, to see the results a while after the event. I like this side effect.

Edited October 28, 2023 by dpitt

[Jskywalker]

I used mainly out of camera jpeg. I usually will bump up the EV to +0.3. For the “mode”, it’s either Vivid or Smooth. 

[Gregm61]

Stick with jpeg format and you’ll always be getting less out of these cameras than you should for what they cost.

A used Olympus digital Pen F is better suited to the “only shoot jpeg” user, or maybe one of the new Nikon full frame mirrorless “dslr-like” zf-whatever-it’s-called these days, or one of the many models Fuji roles out ever 18-24 months.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Gregm61

[thedirektor]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:54 PM, spydrxx said:

You might experiment around with your metering to achieve the result you desire in JPEGs. Although I shoot RAW+JPEG, it is the JPEGs I tend to use, both for the WWW and for prints. BUT I do run them thru  some post processing, usually resizing them for whatever use I'm contemplating, touching up the colors and contrast if needed or desired, and usually applying a bit of sharpening. The process rarely takes more than 45 seconds - 1 minute. Perhaps a somewhat similar process would work for you.

I have usually done a bit of quick post with LR like you but I'm a bit slow with that. So often pics wait 2 or 3 months before I process them.  But you're right, its only takes a few clicks. 

[thedirektor]

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19 hours ago, Gregm61 said:

Stick with jpeg format and you’ll always be getting less out of these cameras than you should for what they cost.

A used Olympus digital Pen F is better suited to the “only shoot jpeg” user, or maybe one of the new Nikon full frame mirrorless “dslr-like” zf-whatever-it’s-called these days, or one of the many models Fuji roles out ever 18-24 months.

 

I know, I know Greg ! But when I first got the digital M I thought it would be like film - shoot the pic with the right exposure etc and then bingo you've got it. I just need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the digital world. I have debated getting a Fuji X but I love shooting M style and I don't like having more than one camera at a time 

[pippy]

4 hours ago, thedirektor said:

...when I first got the digital M I thought it would be like film - shoot the pic with the right exposure etc and then bingo you've got it....

In order to give a meaningful reply could you please give us a rough idea of your previous experience/expectations with shooting film; which sort of film stock was your preferred type and how/by whom (i.e. yourself/Pro-Processor&Printer/High Street "1 Hr. Happy Snap" style outlet) said film was processed and printed? Thanks in advance!

P.

Edited October 29, 2023 by pippy

[thedirektor]

13 minutes ago, pippy said:

In order to give a meaningful reply could you please give us a rough idea of your previous experience/expectations with shooting film; which sort of film stock was your preferred type and how/by whom (i.e. yourself/Pro-Processor&Printer/High Street "1 Hr. Happy Snap" style outlet) said film was processed and printed? Thanks in advance!

P.

Oh...a long,long history ! First camera Kodak Vectra. 127 film. Shoot/Chemist/Photos. Then Canon AE1 1982 onwards. Fave film - Kodak Gold - same thing - snap/chemist/prints.... always used mainly colour print film. Kodak Gold style.  Was always very happy with results from chemist or Bonusprint type mail order. 

Thanks for taking the time to ask ! My OP is maybe a bit flippant - of course I know a digital M is not designed for JPEGS. But I am frustrated that all other camera manufacturers seem to give pleasing JPEGs out the box but Leica doesn't. But don't get me wrong, I love my M262 (also my M7 for film).

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by thedirektor

[thedirektor]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:20 PM, Jskywalker said:

I used mainly out of camera jpeg. I usually will bump up the EV to +0.3. For the “mode”, it’s either Vivid or Smooth. 

Do you have a M262 ? I don't get vivvid or smooth on my menus. I'll try tip for EV. Are you pleased with the JPEGs the Leica gives ? All best IB

[a.noctilux]

Try this :

in MENU, set the JPG Settings, Saturation "High" or "Medium High"

then Contrast, set "High" or "Medium High"

important to push SET, File Format, "DNG + JPG fine" or "JPG fine"

 

In your place, @thedirektor, in different situations, I'd try combinations of the three JPG settings, five levels allowed in Sharpness, Saturation, Contrast.

[pippy]

48 minutes ago, thedirektor said:

...My OP is maybe a bit flippant - of course I know a digital M is not designed for JPEGS. But I am frustrated that all other camera manufacturers seem to give pleasing JPEGs out the box but Leica doesn't...

Not a worry regarding the OP and just trying to get an idea of your expectations and past experience when dealing with film.

Shooting in DNG format does retain more information than when shooting in JPEG mode and much more 'latent information' (for want of a better phrase) can be 'extracted' from these DNG files in Post-Prod but it does help a great deal if you know how to get what you want out of the files.

I have no liking for Lightroom myself and use Photoshop but at a guess what I'm going to type will apply to whichever PP software you might choose to use.

This (FWIW) is how I would advise you to go about things;

Shoot your photographs as DNG files. Batch-process all DNG files out as JPEGs in P-Prod with the 'Auto Levels (or whatever)' box checked. Use these JPEGs as Thumbnails to decide which images deserve more serious attention. Import these DNG files once more into the PP sofware of your choice and start to play around with Levels/Contrast/Highlight/Shadow/Saturation (and so on) sliders and you will soon realise that the results which you, yourself, can produce will be SO much more rewarding than the stuff which will come from a non-informed/non-engaged source. It really doesn't take up too much time at all to improve on results derived from All-Auto settings let alone what you will get as camera-decided JPEGs (regardless of the manufacturer).

It might all sound like a bit of a faff but IMO the time spent working on producing the final product is well worth the effort. You might find the same to be true.

Wishing you all the best!

Philip.

Edited October 30, 2023 by pippy

[Jskywalker]

35 minutes ago, thedirektor said:

Do you have a M262 ? I don't get vivvid or smooth on my menus. I'll try tip for EV. Are you pleased with the JPEGs the Leica gives ? All best IB

Sorry, I’m using a M240. 
I normally use Vivid for landscape and normal when walking around on the street. 
Especially when I’m traveling, I want to quickly share my photos and doesn’t have much time and equipment to do post editing.

[thedirektor]

21 hours ago, pippy said:

Not a worry regarding the OP and just trying to get an idea of your expectations and past experience when dealing with film.

Shooting in DNG format does retain more information than when shooting in JPEG mode and much more 'latent information' (for want of a better phrase) can be 'extracted' from these DNG files in Post-Prod but it does help a great deal if you know how to get what you want out of the files.

I have no liking for Lightroom myself and use Photoshop but at a guess what I'm going to type will apply to whichever PP software you might choose to use.

This (FWIW) is how I would advise you to go about things;

Shoot your photographs as DNG files. Batch-process all DNG files out as JPEGs in P-Prod with the 'Auto Levels (or whatever)' box checked. Use these JPEGs as Thumbnails to decide which images deserve more serious attention. Import these DNG files once more into the PP sofware of your choice and start to play around with Levels/Contrast/Highlight/Shadow/Saturation (and so on) sliders and you will soon realise that the results which you, yourself, can produce will be SO much more rewarding than the stuff which will come from a non-informed/non-engaged source. It really doesn't take up too much time at all to improve on results derived from All-Auto settings let alone what you will get as camera-decided JPEGs (regardless of the manufacturer).

It might all sound like a bit of a faff but IMO the time spent working on producing the final product is well worth the effort. You might find the same to be true.

Wishing you all the best!

Philip.

Thanks Philip. I do actually do that. Use Lightroom to do a few tweaks to each DNG image. But I'm very slow to get to that. I put the JPEGs in Photos and pretty much look at those - even the ones that look awful in unprocessed JPEG state. Useful tip for batch auto fix on DNGs. Thanks, Hit a bit of a problem as my standalone Lightroom has stopped working in Mac OS Sonoma 14.1 !!! So I have to bite the bullet and pay monthly for it. I did download Aperture but found it confusing and not at all intuitive. Thanks for the replies and advice. Happy DNGing !!! Regards Indra

[thedirektor]

21 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Try this :

in MENU, set the JPG Settings, Saturation "High" or "Medium High"

then Contrast, set "High" or "Medium High"

important to push SET, File Format, "DNG + JPG fine" or "JPG fine"

 

In your place, @thedirektor, in different situations, I'd try combinations of the three JPG settings, five levels allowed in Sharpness, Saturation, Contrast.

Merci Arnaud !! I have played around with all the settings and agree that what you suggest is about the best.  But today I had a wander round Tate Modern and tried quite a few settings.  Have yet to look at the JPEGS.  Thanks for the reply and advice.  Regards  Indra

[pippy]

21 hours ago, thedirektor said:

...Hit a bit of a problem as my standalone Lightroom has stopped working in Mac OS Sonoma 14.1 !!! So I have to bite the bullet and pay monthly for it. I did download Aperture but found it confusing and not at all intuitive...

One possible option to avoid the monthly payment thing (if, that is, you have used - and liked - Adobe's Photoshop software) could be to buy their 'Photoshop Elements' offering. After Adobe stopped selling 'Ps' outright several years ago I decided not to be held by the short'n'curlies for ever and, instead, bought the then-current version of 'Ps Elements'. It has 99% of the features I used on the last full version I had(*) and liked the fact that it was a 'one-off-payment-and-use-it-as-long-as-your-PC-lives' solution. FAR more intuitive (IMO) than any other Post-Prod software I've tried and a pleasure (mostly!) to use. Having just had a look I see that there is a new version of 'Elements' out this year.

Just a thought!

Philip.

* I do still have Ps v.13 (which came with CS6) on my old and extremely lethargic steam-powered PC and this occasionally gets pulled from retirement for the 1% of features NOT found on 'Elements'.

Edited October 31, 2023 by pippy

[dpitt]

15 hours ago, pippy said:

One possible option to avoid the monthly payment thing (if, that is, you have used - and liked - Adobe's Photoshop software) could be to buy their 'Photoshop Elements' offering.

...

Or you can look out for a Capture One Pro promotion. They give discounts around 30% for their purchasable version from time to time. In my eyes that is cheaper than the LR subscription. I bought my C1p v23 earlier this year at 30% discount for 200€.

Now I am set for a few years. Even if it does not include free updates for more than a year, it has all the latest professional tools. Check out the auto function.... And it has a very fast workflow, once you have set it up. It even has some AI modules and will probably be compatible with future OS versions for years to come.

Meanwhile I can recommend the free Darktable, although it has a steep learning curve coming from LR. Or you could try the free Rawtherapee, with less functionality, but basically everything you need and it is easier to find your way with it.

And if you just want a quick way to manage and edit your DNG files for a while, you can use the Photos app that comes for free with Mac OS. It now has basic controls for Raw and JPEG and non-destructive workflow for both.

Edited November 1, 2023 by dpitt
Added Apple Photos option