Which combo of 28mm & 50mm should I start out with?

[chester6]

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New to Leica system, just picked up an m11 and looking into getting my core lenses. F2 or F2.8 should be enough for me, being new to rangefinder I'm hoping a smaller aperture will be easier to nail focus. I do also value lenses that are very compact for travel and daily carry. Mainly looking for 28/50 mm combo or 35/50 mm to start out. So far I've narrowed it down to:

Leica 28mm Elmarit-M F2.8 

Voigtlander 28mm Ultron F2 

Leica 50mm Summicron F2 V5 

Voigtlander 50mm APO-Lanthar F2

Between these lenses, I'm thinking about getting 1 Leica + 1 Voigtlander, the 2 Leica lenses (used) are similarly priced while their voigtlander counterpart is around half the cost.  Which combination should I go for? Is it worth prioritizing the 50mm APO over the extra stop of aperture in 28mm? I want to have at least 1 Leica lens, but reading reviews on modern Voigtlander performance, would I be better off with 2 Voigtlanders for their extra features and lower cost?

[Kwesi]

Start by buying the two 50’s shoot them both for a few days and decide which one to keep. Then do the same for the two 28’s. 
 

 

[algrove]

Buy according to your pocketbook.

[Warton]

summicron 28

summicron-apo 50

[colint544]

For a two lens outfit, I usually go 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux. The main reason is that they both draw with a very similar character - modern sharpness, and an old-school smoothness to the out of focus areas. I find them to be a flexible and useful combination.

Appreciate you want compactness as much as possible. Maybe a 28 Summicron and 50 Sumicron could be the way to go?

Edited October 28, 2023 by colint544

[chester6]

4 hours ago, Warton said:

summicron 28

summicron-apo 50

summicron-apo 50 sounds great, but a little too expensive for now

 

13 minutes ago, colint544 said:

For a two lens outfit, I usually go 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux. The main reason is that they both draw with a very similar character - modern sharpness, and an old-school smoothness to the out of focus areas. I find them to be a flexible and useful combination.

Appreciate you want compactness as much as possible. Maybe a 28 Summicron and 50 Sumicron could be the way to go?

i hadn't considered the 50 lux at first due to its size, but gonna give it a try along with the 50 cron V5, having an f1.4 for portraits does sound tempting. I'm having a hard time justifying the 28 summicron over the 28 elmarit tho, double the price and bulkier build just for 1 stop of light. Reviews also say that 28 elmarit is sharper than the cron.

[lct]

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I'm not good at comparing lenses of different apertures sorry.

• Among f/2 lenses, the Summicron 50/2 v5 matches well the Summicron 28/2 but the Ultron 28/2 works well too with more contrast though. Shadows tend to be darker with the Ultron. Otherwise the Ultron is a very good lens with a bit more CA and vignetting than the Summicron but it is more compact and less expensive than the latter. BTW i have no experience with the Apo-Lanthar 50/2 but it is too bulky for my taste.

• About slower than f/2 lenses, i like much the modern rendering of the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1 (no experience with v2) and the more classic one of the Rokkor 28/2.8 but i have no experience with either Zeiss or Voigtlander 28/2.8. Among 50mm lenses, my favorite is the Elmar-M 50/2.8 but for less character and more sharpness below f/5.6, the Summarit 50/2.5 (no experience with 50/2.4) is hard to beat. Can produce some nasty flare under special circumstances though (sun outside the frame at about 10:00 AM).

[Robert Blanko]

If those would be your first and only M lenses, I would go for a 50 Summilux or in alternative a Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.2 for the 50, as those will be most universal and flexible to use.

For the 28, I would not care too much about aperture. Maybe the Voigtländer 28/2.0 is a good choice. I had the previous version but I did not like the field curvature. The current version might be better in said respect, but I never tested. I only have an 28/2.8 Elmarit.

[JoshuaR]

There’s no right answer here—these are all superlative lenses. What I can say is that I currently shoot with the most recent 28 Elmarit ASPH and the 50 Summicron v5, and here’s what I like about that combination as a 28/50 kit:

• On the wide end, the Elmarit is very very small. It makes the camera coat-pocketable or "barely there" on a strap. You can then carry the 50 in a second pocket. The 50 Cron v5 also quite small—certainly smaller than the CV 50 APO. 28 on the camera, 50 in a pocket or vice versa is a great way to shoot, I've found.
• The Elmarit's f/2.8 aperture is more than enough for even indoor scenes with modern high ISO. And for my use a little more DOF makes sense; I’m often using my 28 to capture groups of people and don’t want too little in focus.
• The 50 Cron is a fantastically designed lens, in my opinion. It doesn’t unbalance the camera, the images are beautiful and classic, the built-in hood is nice, and the operation of the lens itself is a pleasure. Both lenses have incredibly smooth focus throws, which is a big deal for me.
• Finally, in terms of rendering, they are both über-sharp with a little bit of glow wide open in strong light. It's a great look and they pair well together.

I’ve also used the CV 28 Ultron II, which is excellent, but I ultimately traded it for the Elmarit and have no regrets. The Ultron's image quality is very very good, but I never quite connected with its snub-nosed appearance. And I prefer the even smaller Elmarit. (Note that there are now those new and very small 28 f/2.8 lenses from Voigtlander, which look to be almost though not quite as good as the Elmarit.)

I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I sometimes consider trading my Elmarit and Cron for a 28 Cron and 50 Lux. But that would be a very expensive trade, and I would lose the extreme portability of the Elmarit/Cron combination. I have two fast 35s (Steel Rim and FLE) which I use for indoor work; 28/50 is my walk-around kit. Moving to a bigger 28/50 would make the 35 Steel Rim my lightweight walk-around setup—not a bad idea, but maybe less practical than 28/50. All of which is to say that, as you build out your Leica kit, you might think about the contexts in which you plan to use your lenses. If these are lenses for travel and daily carry, smaller is definitely better.

Edited October 28, 2023 by JoshuaRothman

[costa43]

The impossible question but one many (including myself) enjoy discussing so here goes!

50 lux & 28 elmarit 

or

50 f1.5 voigt & 28mm ultron or skopar

A couple of possible combos above. I do like a fast 50 although I also own the Voigtlander apo 50mm and it’s image quality is faultless bar some vignetting wide open.
If you prefer a more vintage rendering then the below could work, although when it comes to 50mm the choices are plentiful! 

50 lux pre asph or 50 cron v3 & Elmarit v3 

[ianforber]

I too had this quandary when buying my first Leica. I started with the 50 Summicron v5 because I wanted the full Leica camera/lens combo. I decided to stay with just that lens for 12 months to get used to it. After a year I decided to try out 35mm but didn’t want to go for a Leica in case that focal length didn’t suit my style, so I bought a CV lens. I know yore looking for a 28mm rather than a 35mm but, for what it’s worth, I’d get one Leica lens and one CV lens just to see whether you prefer a particular focal length and then decide whether to go full Leica or full CV. 

[dpitt]

9 hours ago, chester6 said:

... I'm having a hard time justifying the 28 summicron over the 28 elmarit tho, double the price and bulkier build just for 1 stop of light. Reviews also say that 28 elmarit is sharper than the cron.

Go for the Elmarit 28. It is a lovely little gem and it redefines the term small for an M lens. Without sun hood, it makes the package pocket-able, something you can not do with all the other lenses in this discussion.

I would go for the Summicron 50 v5. Yes the APO seems to be wonderful and the Summilux can be tempting. But again Leica M is about compactness and small weight for me. F2.0 is the most practical fast aperture with 50 mm M lenses anyway. Every Leica M owner should have a Summicron and this one is the best example of what it stands for. Maybe after you have the 28/50, you can go for a 35 Summilux.

[marchyman]

I like the Zeiss C-Biogon 35 mm lens.   It is f/2.8 which is adequate for my use. I tend to shoot the lens mostly between f/4 and f/5.6.  The only thing I didn't particularly like about the lens is it has a focus bump instead of a focus tab,  An after market stick on tab fixed that for me.

The C in C-Biogon is for compact.  Without a lens hood it only blocks the tiniest portion of the bottom right of the rangefinder and that portion may be outside the 35mm frame lines.

[chester6]

Just picked up the 50mm lux ASPH, and wow it just hits different.

Compared to the Voigtlander 40mm F/2 SC that came with my camera, the lux has way less vignetting despite larger aperture, more contrast, more bokeh. The creamy background wide open really surprised me despite seeing all the sample photos online. I know the 40mm F/2 SC isn't really a fair comparison to the 50mm lux ASPH, but now I'm second guessing whether I should even bother with Voigtlander lenses

The 50 lux is also smaller in real life than I was expecting, all the online close-up shots of the lens gave it a bulkier impression, but the length does throw the balance of the camera off a little bit, it can't stand without tipping forward, and holding it makes me feel like I could use a hand grip or thumb grip 

[NigelG]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:07 AM, colint544 said:

For a two lens outfit, I usually go 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux. The main reason is that they both draw with a very similar character - modern sharpness, and an old-school smoothness to the out of focus areas. I find them to be a flexible and useful combination.

Appreciate you want compactness as much as possible. Maybe a 28 Summicron and 50 Sumicron could be the way to go?

+1

If you buy Leica lenses and start with a 28 Elmarit and 50 Summicron you will eventually buy a 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux IMHO as to me they are more versatile and have a lovely matching “feel”.

I am of course the kind of fool who started with the 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux as the best combo and then bought the others as they seemed smaller/lighter for travelling and now have to decide every time which to take 🙄 (amongst my many other 28s and 50s…) 

The slope is even more slippery with a pair of lenses than the eternal “which 35?”

[chester6]

7 hours ago, chester6 said:

Just picked up the 50mm lux ASPH, and wow it just hits different.

Compared to the Voigtlander 40mm F/2 SC that came with my camera, the lux has way less vignetting despite larger aperture, more contrast, more bokeh. The creamy background wide open really surprised me despite seeing all the sample photos online. I know the 40mm F/2 SC isn't really a fair comparison to the 50mm lux ASPH, but now I'm second guessing whether I should even bother with Voigtlander lenses

The 50 lux is also smaller in real life than I was expecting, all the online close-up shots of the lens gave it a bulkier impression, but the length does throw the balance of the camera off a little bit, it can't stand without tipping forward, and holding it makes me feel like I could use a hand grip or thumb grip 

quick correction, the Voigtlander is F/1.4 as well, not F/2

 

7 hours ago, NigelG said:

+1

If you buy Leica lenses and start with a 28 Elmarit and 50 Summicron you will eventually buy a 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux IMHO as to me they are more versatile and have a lovely matching “feel”.

I am of course the kind of fool who started with the 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux as the best combo and then bought the others as they seemed smaller/lighter for travelling and now have to decide every time which to take 🙄 (amongst my many other 28s and 50s…) 

The slope is even more slippery with a pair of lenses than the eternal “which 35?”

I also have severe gear acquisition syndrome, and I had a feeling the 50 summicron will soon turn into a summilux anyways so I skipped the trouble of an extra buy/sell process. I'm thinking 50mm summilux + 28mm elmarit combo might be the best of both worlds, smaller wide lens on camera for travel and a bigger summilux in backpack for when the moment calls for it

[Kwesi]

17 hours ago, chester6 said:

quick correction, the Voigtlander is F/1.4 as well, not F/2

 

I also have severe gear acquisition syndrome, and I had a feeling the 50 summicron will soon turn into a summilux anyways so I skipped the trouble of an extra buy/sell process. I'm thinking 50mm summilux + 28mm elmarit combo might be the best of both worlds, smaller wide lens on camera for travel and a bigger summilux in backpack for when the moment calls for it

Given your love for the 50/1.4 ASPH, my gut feeling is you are going to be bored with the current or previous 28 elmarit M ASPH. It's a sharp and practical lens but it's also quite plain and contrasty in its rendering. I would recommend the 28/2 ASPH, v2 or the latest v3 assuming it renders the same as the v2.

[nameBrandon]

This 28/50 is the same setup I'm going with..

For 28mm go Q3... Not joking, the Q3 covers my 28 and 35mm needs, and adds in AF.  If I had to pick an M lens in 28mm though, I'd go Elmarit ASPH II.

I'm still auditioning 50's.. I've owned the Summilux 50 ASPH before (a few times, actually) and it's lovely.. until it starts to get boring, IMO. It's very contrasty, very sharp, very modern.

Right now I'm testing the 50 cron V5, 50 Nokton 1.2 and 50 C Sonnar. Leaning towards the Summicron at the moment, but still have a few days on the rentals to decide.

 

 

 

 

[chester6]

3 hours ago, nameBrandon said:

This 28/50 is the same setup I'm going with..

For 28mm go Q3... Not joking, the Q3 covers my 28 and 35mm needs, and adds in AF.  If I had to pick an M lens in 28mm though, I'd go Elmarit ASPH II.

I'm still auditioning 50's.. I've owned the Summilux 50 ASPH before (a few times, actually) and it's lovely.. until it starts to get boring, IMO. It's very contrasty, very sharp, very modern.

Right now I'm testing the 50 cron V5, 50 Nokton 1.2 and 50 C Sonnar. Leaning towards the Summicron at the moment, but still have a few days on the rentals to decide.

 

 

 

 

I sold my Q3 to get the M11, my problems with the Q3 was: too chunky to fit in my small slings, and the focal length felt more like 24mm than 28, a little too wide when my preference is 28-35. Also doesn't feel right to drop that much cash for another body. Although I will admit the AF would be super convenient for those point and shoot occasions, maybe an older Q-P/Q2 would be a good choice

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[JoshuaR]

I've just sold my 28 Elmarit ASPH and bought a 28mm Summaron. I'll be pairing the Summaron with the 50 Cron v5 I already own, with a Steel Rim Reissue sandwiched in the middle for a one-lens setup.

I'm hoping that these three lenses will cohere into a 'neo-vintage' set.