Leica M3, M6 or M7

[nemendes]

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Hi Everyone! 
I am new to leica analog world and made some research by myself for buying my first leica analog camera. In this forum, it is clearly explained spesifications of all analog camera, thanks for that. I am thinking to get one among options m3,m6 and m7. 
 

I would like to ask that which one is more suitable to use for me. I have concern about making right settings when i shoot and i m afraid that i will be lazy to use my camera and wont enjoy at all. For example leica m3 is great camera, i can use it with external light meter. Leica m6 has its own light meter, but leica m7 is quicker and easier one but it can be brick at some point in the future.  I am afraid to choose wrong one
 

leica m3 with external light meter, leica m6 with its own light meter and leica m7 with auto aperture mode - is there huge difference between them or negligable when using? I mean how much leica m7 is quicker to make composition than leica m3, m6? Is Using m3 with ext. light meter harder than leica m6? By the way i mostly shoot with 50mm, so VF on M3 wont be a problem for me.

thanks for your advices in advance. 

[105012]

Welcome! Opinions will vary, and what is best for you is ultimately for you to discover/decide.

I have used a wide range of Leica rangefinders, however, for me, there is none (analog or digital) which can favourably compare with the M3. From the superlative viewfinder, to the haptics, to the practicalities (such as the frame guards which eliminate for me the possibility of greasy finger marks on the viewfinder/rangefinder windows), for me it is the best. It is not the best for other people, of course!

As for a light meter, I started out with an external incident meter. I followed a simple rule: 1) guess the exposure, 2) check with meter. After a while, I became very accurate in medium to bright light, so I continued to carry the meter and follow this rule until eventually I was also pretty good in low light. Now, I never use the meter. I just went on a 6 week trip and didn't even remember the light meter until I returned. It still sits forlornly in its drawer.

I print in the darkroom, so am very aware of the densities and contrast levels of my exposures. No meter, no problem. 

[250swb]

If you haven't done any film photography before don't start with the M3. Begin with a camera that you can explore lenses with, not have to worry about a separate light meter, and is reliable, and that would be an M6. In other words a camera that can help you as much as possible while you learn, not one suitable for hero's, specialists, and aficionados of the Leica brand. That can be your second camera.

[hansvons]

What 250SWB said. 

M3 is great for 50mm people who don't need/want a light meter. Said to have the highest built quality. 

M6 has the best all-around usability. 

M7 is probably more reliable than its reputation. The aperture priority mode can accelerate shooting. 

The M4 versions are also worth looking at if a light meter isn't a must-have. 

I own an M6 and an M4P and gravitate most of the time towards the M6. Having a light meter makes a difference to me. I almost exclusively shoot with 35mm lenses. 

[Knipsknecht]

It depends on how much you are willing to accept a challenge. That means: the M3 is a great camera, but you will have to learn to “read the light” to adjust your exposure triangle. Of course you will use an external light meter when you start using a M3, but over time you will be able to understand the actual lighting situation and slowly but surely you will be able to keep the external light meter as a backup in your pocket, just as @105012 has written above. But there is a learning curve that has to be accepted.

And of course, a M3 contains no electronics. One point less to worry about. Depending on the amount of money you can or like to invest, a M-A could be a good alternative, as the mechanical parts are probably in a better condition.

The M6 is a good compromise as it can be shot without batteries for the light meter. Personally I prefer the M7 as it can be shot in aperture priority - just like my M10-R. For me it’s the most refined analog M-camera, and I don’t care much about electronics. Maybe they break tomorrow, maybe in 20 years, maybe in 100 years - who knows.

But if this is a critical point for you I suggest buying either a new camera that can be serviced for many years or buy a camera without any electronics and learn to live with it😉.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Knipsknecht

[nemendes]

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions. As you said, M3 is a great camera, but I don't  know how much I can tolerate learning curve and not get bored  I mean, I get used to take photos with digital cameras, I take a shot, go to home and look at them. With analog cameras addition to photo taking process, I have to wait to see results. Therefore I dont want myself to be afraid or get lazy too much because of waiting time. Maybe it won't be a problem at all but I didn't try it before.

Between m6 and m7, I m closing more to m7. I mean m6 is a great all rounder camera for sure, but having aperture priority has more temptation for me to use. 

It will be a little irrelevant to topic but I wanna ask that there is much difference VF between M6,M7 and MP. There are some m6 and m7 cameras with new MP viewfinder, so should I choose these options or negligible? 

[Stuart Richardson]

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The M7 is my favorite, but the M6 is also a great choice. The VF is best in the M7, due to the lack of flare in the rangefinder patch. The M3 is a great camera, but probably not a best first M due to the lack of a meter and the lower flexibility with lenses. One this is, you can use the M6 exactly like an M3 if you decide you want to...just leave out the battery. The M7 needs the battery for the shutter, but you can also use it fully manually and ignore the meter. I would say if you plan to shoot a lot of slide film, the M7 is the best choice, as the shutter is stepless in AE mode, so rather than being constrained by full or half stops, you can be exactly spot on. This is not really a concern for color negative or black and white though, and certainly the M6 and M3 can take good slides, it is just that the M7 is every so slightly better if the metering is good.

[Anbaric]

12 minutes ago, nemendes said:

It will be a little irrelevant to topic but I wanna ask that there is much difference VF between M6,M7 and MP. There are some m6 and m7 cameras with new MP viewfinder, so should I choose these options or negligible? 

There's a good description of the patch flare issue and which cameras are most affected here:

http://www.nemeng.com/leicafaq/020b.php

I find that with an M6 it does happen from time to time, but it's a long way from a deal breaker. It would be preferable to have the MP finder, but you may struggle to find an earlier camera with the upgrade.

A rather more fundamental question is, which lenses do you want to shoot? Not all Leicas have the same framelines. The M3 has only 50/90/135. If you want to shoot a 35, you'll have to guesstimate or use an external finder or track down a 'goggled' 35mm lens from the 1950s. The M2 has what to me is a more useful set, 35/50/90, the M4 and M4-2 have 35/50/90/135, while the M4-P and later have the full 28/35/50/75/90/135 set. Some people consider the later finders a bit cluttered, though (2 sets of framelines are always visible), and they seem to have shrunk the 50mm framelines (which are now accurate at short distances, but a bit undersized for longer distances) to fit everything in from the M4-P onwards.

Consider also that the M2 and M3 have a slower loading system than later Leicas (you can buy a modern kit to upgrade this from Cameraworks-UK) and they also have a slower rewind knob rather than a crank (this knob would reappear in the retro-styled MP and meterless M-A).

There will probably come a point when the battery-dependent M7 can't be serviced. It's already impossible to find main meter circuit boards for the M6-Classic and M6-TTL, though Leica has suggested this may change in the future. For now, an M6 Classic with an unrepairable meter will still function as a meterless camera. The M6-TTL is the same, except that I don't think you can use flash at all if the main board dies (not just TTL flash).

[spydrxx]

So many different preferences. If you are truly a newbie, have difficulty mentally working out the nuances among ISO, aperture and shutter speed, then clearly the M6 or M7 is for you. OTOH if you really want to know your craft and have a rugged durable camera to last a lifetime, the M2, M3, or M4 can be a good choice, depending on what focal length lenses you mostly use. Years ago I chose an M4 over an M3, because at the time it was new, and I wanted to shoot mostly with a 35mm lens and not have to deal with what I considered a clumsy focusing attachment...that worked for over 30 years. I tried an M6 when they came out, thinking the internal meter would be great, but to me it wasn't, and within a year I sold it. A couple of years ago I got an M2 and really like it, in spite of it taking a little longer to load. I also began exploring the Barnacks and with declining eyesight appreciate that the focusing is more accurate (not necessarily better) than the M bodies. Before you commit to a purchase, you should really try your choices or at least handle them. That way you will be least likely to make a mistake which yould turn you off to the Leica brand.

Edited October 15, 2023 by spydrxx
typo

[nemendes]

32 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

There's a good description of the patch flare issue and which cameras are most affected here:

http://www.nemeng.com/leicafaq/020b.php

I find that with an M6 it does happen from time to time, but it's a long way from a deal breaker. It would be preferable to have the MP finder, but you may struggle to find an earlier camera with the upgrade.

A rather more fundamental question is, which lenses do you want to shoot? Not all Leicas have the same framelines. The M3 has only 50/90/135. If you want to shoot a 35, you'll have to guesstimate or use an external finder or track down a 'goggled' 35mm lens from the 1950s. The M2 has what to me is a more useful set, 35/50/90, the M4 and M4-2 have 35/50/90/135, while the M4-P and later have the full 28/35/50/75/90/135 set. Some people consider the later finders a bit cluttered, though (2 sets of framelines are always visible), and they seem to have shrunk the 50mm framelines (which are now accurate at short distances, but a bit undersized for longer distances) to fit everything in from the M4-P onwards.

Consider also that the M2 and M3 have a slower loading system than later Leicas (you can buy a modern kit to upgrade this from Cameraworks-UK) and they also have a slower rewind knob rather than a crank (this knob would reappear in the retro-styled MP and meterless M-A).

There will probably come a point when the battery-dependent M7 can't be serviced. It's already impossible to find main meter circuit boards for the M6-Classic and M6-TTL, though Leica has suggested this may change in the future. For now, an M6 Classic with an unrepairable meter will still function as a meterless camera. The M6-TTL is the same, except that I don't think you can use flash at all if the main board dies (not just TTL flash).

I mostly shoot with 50mm, so it won't bother me not to have 35mm framelines with m3. It sounds perfect choice for me but as I mentioned before, I don't know how much I can be patient about whole process  I think that m7 will be much easier and quicker to get use to analog world for me. As you said, I have also concern about a time that it can't be serviced anymore. 

[kivis]

I started out with an M7, loved it, loved it, but felt I wanted more control so I "moved up" with an M6, loved it loved it. Had a repair issue, so off to Wetzler. Leica Miami lent me a floor demo Black M-A. (no meter at all). I traded my M6 for the M-A and never looked back. Each to his own.

[nemendes]

1 hour ago, kivis said:

I started out with an M7, loved it, loved it, but felt I wanted more control so I "moved up" with an M6, loved it loved it. Had a repair issue, so off to Wetzler. Leica Miami lent me a floor demo Black M-A. (no meter at all). I traded my M6 for the M-A and never looked back. Each to his own.

Somehow i think that i ll have exact feeling as you had  starting with leica m7, then more complicated one and then m3 or m-a, without any electronics. Thanks for sharing your journey!

[nemendes]

3 hours ago, Anbaric said:

There's a good description of the patch flare issue and which cameras are most affected here:

http://www.nemeng.com/leicafaq/020b.php

I find that with an M6 it does happen from time to time, but it's a long way from a deal breaker. It would be preferable to have the MP finder, but you may struggle to find an earlier camera with the upgrade.

A rather more fundamental question is, which lenses do you want to shoot? Not all Leicas have the same framelines. The M3 has only 50/90/135. If you want to shoot a 35, you'll have to guesstimate or use an external finder or track down a 'goggled' 35mm lens from the 1950s. The M2 has what to me is a more useful set, 35/50/90, the M4 and M4-2 have 35/50/90/135, while the M4-P and later have the full 28/35/50/75/90/135 set. Some people consider the later finders a bit cluttered, though (2 sets of framelines are always visible), and they seem to have shrunk the 50mm framelines (which are now accurate at short distances, but a bit undersized for longer distances) to fit everything in from the M4-P onwards.

Consider also that the M2 and M3 have a slower loading system than later Leicas (you can buy a modern kit to upgrade this from Cameraworks-UK) and they also have a slower rewind knob rather than a crank (this knob would reappear in the retro-styled MP and meterless M-A).

There will probably come a point when the battery-dependent M7 can't be serviced. It's already impossible to find main meter circuit boards for the M6-Classic and M6-TTL, though Leica has suggested this may change in the future. For now, an M6 Classic with an unrepairable meter will still function as a meterless camera. The M6-TTL is the same, except that I don't think you can use flash at all if the main board dies (not just TTL flash).

Does Leica m6 and m7 have same viewfinder? or does m7 have better one?

[TomB_tx]

The M7 viewfinder was changed during its production run, so one you buy could either have one like the M6, or the better one like the MP. Both M6 and M7 can have the viewfinder upgraded. I had my 1985 M6 upgraded a few years ago, and it is a nice improvement.

[250swb]

Whatever you choose don’t do it on the basis of it being a challenge, learning film photography with a new camera should be made as easy as pie because there are so many other things to think about at the same time. So don’t make the camera another thing to think about. If in doubt get a Nikon FM or FE and have a blast and then see where you are regarding film photography, and then come back to the Leica idea if it still has legs.

[TomB_tx]

8 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Whatever you choose don’t do it on the basis of it being a challenge, learning film photography with a new camera should be made as easy as pie because there are so many other things to think about at the same time. So don’t make the camera another thing to think about. If in doubt get a Nikon FM or FE and have a blast and then see where you are regarding film photography, and then come back to the Leica idea if it still has legs.

Agreed - my daughter-in-law did a lot of dSLR work before wanting to try film. Set her up with a Pentax MX, and dealing with manual focus in addition to selecting both shutter speed and aperture, even with a nice light meter in the VF, was too much all at once. so I switched her to a Pentax ME so manual focus was the main "New" thing to worry about. She did much better then.

[nemendes]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Whatever you choose don’t do it on the basis of it being a challenge, learning film photography with a new camera should be made as easy as pie because there are so many other things to think about at the same time. So don’t make the camera another thing to think about. If in doubt get a Nikon FM or FE and have a blast and then see where you are regarding film photography, and then come back to the Leica idea if it still has legs.

I was using fujifilm cameras before and everything was auto at that time. Then 5 years ago i took my first leica camera m10, now i have m11. I love shooting from rangefinder, love leica world  but i never try analog film camera before. With m11, i have auto aperture, iso and etc. I took photos with all manuel but even if then, i have chance to check up my frame and take it if it needs.

with analog one, i dont have any chance to check up, so i am afraid to make my composition wrong. And i never use light meter before, i dont have any idea how they work and how much they accurate. As you said, maybe i should go with m7 at least to get used to take analog shoots and try to compose myself time by time.

[madNbad]

The M7 shutter speed dial turns in the same direction as your M11 so there is one less adjustment. If you decide to buy a M7, find the latest version. It will have the upgraded viewfinder and a better DX reader. Having AE is an advantage when you want proper exposure without having to worry. 

[Greenhilltony]

Aperture-priority mode for convenience? Mostly it's a fake story. Once you become an experienced photographer, you will doubt the result of the built-in light meter every single time, comparing it against the exposure settings you used to know and proven to be successful. Also, you cannot read the light meter results out of the viewfinder, which means if you're not sure about the suggested shutter speed, you have to raise the camera to your eye––it's quite a mess. Especially, when you want to shoot from the hip, or run & gun, you know nothing about the AE mode's thoughts. You might know, 1/500s at this F-stop is already great for the scene, but then the camera is fooled by some lighter or darker subjects or the reflective light from the surfaces, then the AE mode exposes in a few stops away. So if you have to tame the light meter every time, it will not relieve any effort but instead bother you seriously. 

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[105012]

@Greenhilltony hits on a good point, and as I said above an incident light meter reading is a much more reliable way to learn a particular light, compared with a centre weighted reflective meter. Of course, I would not presume to know what is best for another photographer, it’s a very personal journey. And in this, we are all our own heroes 😀