M10-P or M240-P in 2023

[cesc]

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Hello everyone,

I understand my title might be a bit cliché, but I find myself in a situation where I deeply miss my M10 and 35 FLE after making one of the biggest mistakes by selling all my gear. As I've been researching, I've come across two options available here in my hometown:

1. An M10-P (no box or papers) priced at 4250 euros. Please note that this is from a personal seller, so there's no guarantee provided.

2. A Leica M240-P, black paint, from an official Leica dealer. They've rated it 4/5 for cosmetics and mechanics, and it's priced at 3800 euros. The advantage here is that it comes with a warranty due to being sold by a store.

Considering we're in 2023, I expected the prices for the M240-P to be lower. I'd appreciate hearing your opinions on whether it's wise to buy from a store or not, and if spending almost 4K on a camera body that's more than 7 years old is a safe bet.

I should mention that I've primarily been shooting film, and my first digital M was the M10. I'm quite old school in my approach, usually shooting single shots and rarely using live view. If you'd like to see the kind of photos I take, you can check out my Instagram, where I mostly focus on family documentary photography. That's why I have a deep affection for Leica Ms.

 

Thank you in advance for your insights and advice

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[LeicaR10]

Cesc,  You are faced with a decision that only you can make.  Some will say, go for the M240-P others the M10-P.  I suggest you make a list of pros and cons between the two cameras.  It might help you decide what is best for you.  If it were me, I would wait until the offical Leica dealer can get you the camera you want or miss.  The M10, M10-P and M10-R are all most excellent cameras.  Probably the last of the M cameras with removable bottom plate and black brass top plate.  The M11-P is due out in October.  Most likely the camera will cause the M10-P cameras to be traded for that model and lower prices.  If you can wait a few more weeks, you might well get a great deal on a M10-P in most excellent condition from you local Leica dealer...the warranty is important.  You don't know what the local personal seller(s) might have issue with the camera. I have personally been burned via eBay and private sellers, years ago.  I don't buy from private sellers or eBay anymore.  I only buy from Leica dealers that have store warranties in writing, no verbal warranty.  I am certain you will find a mint M10-P in the coming weeks via the dealer.  Simply ask them to keep you in mind when one comes available...and they most definitely will be too.  October is almost here.... r/ Mark

Edited September 3, 2023 by LeicaR10

[cesc]

Thanks so much I didn't know that, so for sure I will wait! 

[Al Brown]

M10-P ALL.THE.WAY. Do not even think. The ONLY "PRO" decision for the M240 is the somewhat lower price. Nothing else.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Al Brown

[newtoleica]

Selling all gear and regretting it… we’ve all been there. I also use film on an M7 and have a digital M for colour. I’ve  used both these cameras and have an M10-P currently. The M10 platform for me is a no brainier over the M240 but primarily in terms of handling and similar feel to a film M. If you have used and liked a 10-P you won’t be satisfied with a 240. Warranty, yes useful, but if you can meet and get a good story from a private seller I don’t think it’s a big risk. I always buy on private sales and haven’t been burned yet in 20 years. EBay in particular is very buyer centric so you can return an item if it’s defective on arrival. If the camera works fine when you get it it’s likely to carry on doing that in my view (I know we see people with faults on the forum but that’s a biased selection). Research the seller, ask for a history and shutter count, check the camera carefully. If any doubt then wait for the dealer to get one. Leave the 240.

[charlesphoto99]

As long as you're going to be spending that kind of money I would go for the 10P, which in my estimation is one of the best looking digital M's made. And I doubt it will be M10-P users trading in for the M11P - it will be well heeled users trading in their barely used M11's for the M11P because you know, it will be SO much better without the red dot. 

The only issue to be aware of is having two different battery setups since you have the M11M already. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by charlesphoto99

[RexGig0]

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It would be helpful, for a buyer, to know more about the history of the M10-P, and its seller, before making a decision. If the seller has images, of things such as his family, that prove a history of ownership, that can be reassuring. Actual receipts and, if applicable, service records are another way to ease one’s mind that the M10-P is “pre-loved,” rather than just “used,” by unknown persons, with an unknown past. (Such personal information, however, may be something a seller legitimately wishes to keep private.) The nightmare scenario would be to buy a camera that has been reported stolen, by a rightful owner. A Leica camera, sold by an official Leica dealer, is probably more likely to be legitimate.

Regarding the relatively high cost of the M Type 240-P, well, there is the Black Paint factor, the Sapphire Glass LCD, the better buffer, compared to the original 240, probably its rarity, and its simply being the newest of the 240-series. A business will, of course, tend to ask more than a private seller, but this is not a universal truth.

As the owner of both M Type 246 and M10 cameras, the following random thoughts come to mind:

The 240-series cameras are thicker, in the fore-and-aft dimension, than M film cameras and the M10-series. This does not bother me, but some shooters think otherwise.

If one has never owned a 240-series camera, the differing viewfinder experience should best be tried, in person, before making a buying decision. This is especially applicable to shooters to wear eyeglasses while shooting. The degree of difficulty depends upon the eyewear, and the shooter’s individual facial structure. When I use a 35mm lens, with a 246, for example, I cannot readily see the 35mm frame lines, so, if there is any urgency to frame the shot, I am using the hard frame of the entire viewfinder window, for an approximate framing.

The larger battery, that is used by 240-series cameras, is an convenient advantage, compared to the M10-series. I could get along quite well, without a spare battery, using an M 246 camera. Seriously using an M10 compels one to carry at least one extra battery. I have accumulated four spare M10 batteries.

240-series cameras can use an optional Multifunction Handgriffe/Handgrip, which allows an increased number of flash options, tethered shooting, the ability to use external power via a cable, and somewhat-limited GPS capability.

The M10-series cameras can be successfully used at higher ISO settings than the M Types 240 and 262. (I cannot be more specific, as the 246, with which I am personally familiar, actually out-performs the original M10, in this regard.) The southeast Texas heat and humidity compels me to shoot mostly in the evenings, and at night, for so much of the year, so, a camera that cannot readily readily perform, at quite high ISO settings, is of limited utility. 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by RexGig0

[hepcat]

Caveat:  I have not used any of the 240 series.  (I had both an M9-P and M8 for several years, and the M240 series is dimensionally similar.)

I DO have an M10-P.  One of my constant complaints about the M8 and M9-P, coming from film bodies (primarily M2s and M4s) was that difference in thickness of the bodies.  It may seem like a small issue, but the M9-P just doesn't handle the same way as the film M bodies.  The difference annoyed me the entire time I shot the digital Ms.  The M10-P on the other hand is dimensionally very similar to the film M bodies.   The M10-P also has better performance at high ISOs and has an improved viewfinder.

Before I bought m M10-P I considered the black paint M240-P as well.  I decided on the M10-P for those reasons I listed, plus the M10-P's warranty and that its a bunch of years newer.  Believe it or not, the "feel" of the M10-P over the thickness of the M240-P was the main determining factor though.  

As for buying from a private party, ask any questions you have and listen to your gut.   If everything sounds legit, it probably is.  If there's anything that sounds questionable, then move on.  

Edited September 4, 2023 by hepcat

[Almizilero]

Another one for the M10-P. Even the M10 (which I got after the M240-P) is a bit step up. But the price of your offer seems about 1.000 EUR to cheap for an M10-P. Almost the price of an M10 (which go for just under 4.000 from private sellers these days). So beware and make sure you get what you pay for!

[cesc]

Thanks for your replies! Here's a little update about my pursuit of the Leica M camera...

I found the M 240P, but it was quite beaten up. As for the M10-P, the seller ultimately decided to keep it. However, I stumbled upon an M9M with a new CCD sensor, identified as ID 53. Since I have a background in analog photography, this camera is incredibly tempting to me. I plan to ask in the monochrome thread, but if anyone has any thoughts about it, I would greatly appreciate your input.

Edited September 12, 2023 by cesc

[xveruskax]

On 9/12/2023 at 8:00 AM, cesc said:

Thanks for your replies! Here's a little update about my pursuit of the Leica M camera...

I found the M 240P, but it was quite beaten up. As for the M10-P, the seller ultimately decided to keep it. However, I stumbled upon an M9M with a new CCD sensor, identified as ID 53. Since I have a background in analog photography, this camera is incredibly tempting to me. I plan to ask in the monochrome thread, but if anyone has any thoughts about it, I would greatly appreciate your input.

The M9 was my first digital Leica after shooting with an M6TTL for a year or so. It does "feel" like a film camera in the sense that the limitations of the camera slow you down but physically, as others have stated, it is thicker than a Leica film body. The screen and buttons for the M9 are also frustratingly bad, at least for me.

I now own an M10-P after reading a lot about it and seeing sample images. I initially rented one and immediately fell in love with the feel of the camera in the hand so I had to buy one. It feels solid, the interface is perfect and the images are stunning. In an ideal world, there might be an M9 CCD sensor in an M10-p/r body; or M11 for that matter. The M9 sensor is amazing but also very limiting because of the dynamic range is limited. Highlights have virtually no data to recover. So in the absence of an M9 sensor/M10 body option, I'll shoot with an M10-P for the time being.

Edited September 22, 2023 by xveruskax

[costa43]

For such a small price difference, it has to be the m10p for me too. Unless you really want the better battery and video, I do not see any benefit with going for the mp. The m240 generation is great but it’s strongest pull is usually the price. In this case, the difference is too small in my opinion. Best of luck with your decision making!

[Makage]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:40 PM, cesc said:

Hello everyone,

I understand my title might be a bit cliché, but I find myself in a situation where I deeply miss my M10 and 35 FLE after making one of the biggest mistakes by selling all my gear. As I've been researching, I've come across two options available here in my hometown:

1. An M10-P (no box or papers) priced at 4250 euros. Please note that this is from a personal seller, so there's no guarantee provided.

2. A Leica M240-P, black paint, from an official Leica dealer. They've rated it 4/5 for cosmetics and mechanics, and it's priced at 3800 euros. The advantage here is that it comes with a warranty due to being sold by a store.

Considering we're in 2023, I expected the prices for the M240-P to be lower. I'd appreciate hearing your opinions on whether it's wise to buy from a store or not, and if spending almost 4K on a camera body that's more than 7 years old is a safe bet.

I should mention that I've primarily been shooting film, and my first digital M was the M10. I'm quite old school in my approach, usually shooting single shots and rarely using live view. If you'd like to see the kind of photos I take, you can check out my Instagram, where I mostly focus on family documentary photography. That's why I have a deep affection for Leica Ms.

 

Thank you in advance for your insights and advice

Here’s is what I would do. 

Go to the store (can you go or is this all online?) and buy the camera from them. M240. And then put the savings towards a Summicron. 50 or 35 whatever. Start here and then this will come with box and everything from a dealer. You can use this to upgrade later if you need it. Maybe for your use case you can keep shooting happily with the M240 unless the high ISO noise bothers you. 

If you get the M10P you’re on your own. I bought an M10P once and sold it after a month. I noticed it actually had a bad sensor. As-is no warranty. After that I went to the dealer and exchanged for a new M10R. Still using it happily. I also started a relationship with the dealer and went back and bought my first Leica lens from them. And I’ll keep buying from them. I can exchange things. They buy and sell. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Makage

[Makage]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:00 PM, cesc said:

Thanks for your replies! Here's a little update about my pursuit of the Leica M camera...

I found the M 240P, but it was quite beaten up. As for the M10-P, the seller ultimately decided to keep it. However, I stumbled upon an M9M with a new CCD sensor, identified as ID 53. Since I have a background in analog photography, this camera is incredibly tempting to me. I plan to ask in the monochrome thread, but if anyone has any thoughts about it, I would greatly appreciate your input.

estas en Barcelona?

https://www.casanovafoto.com/fotografia/camaras/telemetricas-digitales/leica-m-p-negra-typ-240-2a-mano

Viene con 1 año de garantía. Llámalos!

Edited September 27, 2023 by Makage

[KFo]

As you observe, the prices...

When I made my M10P purchase in early 2019 I found the same thing.  The 240s were remarkably precious, the M9 was on it's way out due to the CCD issue yet still spendy IMHO for an old defective camera

I would go directly after the M10P again. It's very capable camera, has a non-obtuse user interface (which you don't often need), and likely has longer future life...these are ultimately consumer electronics remember.

[newtoleica]

6 minutes ago, KFo said:

As you observe, the prices...

When I made my M10P purchase in early 2019 I found the same thing.  The 240s were remarkably precious, the M9 was on it's way out due to the CCD issue yet still spendy IMHO for an old defective camera

I would go directly after the M10P again. It's very capable camera, has a non-obtuse user interface (which you don't often need), and likely has longer future life...these are ultimately consumer electronics remember.

Agree 10-P and 10-R are the sweet spot in used Leicas currently. Good value and a lot more functional than either of the two previous series.

[charlie9089]

Would +1 suggest you considering the M10-R - key advantage is much better control/recovery of highlights (plus more megapixels as a secondary advantage).  Re M240 and M10-P - easy choice between these two - M10-P. The M240 is showing its age now and only makes sense if a lot cheaper. But if the budget will stretch a little to the M10-R this has all the advantages of the M10-P and then some..