Jobo or Patterson

[Bobonli]

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Help me pick a tank for hand agitation, home development of B&W. I understand the differences in reel systems and that I can save some chems in the Jobo tank. Also appears that the Jobo is less prone to leakage. I'm probably doing no more that 2 rolls at a time, no interest in an agitation machine/water bath gizmo. 

I developed at home many years ago....think I used Patterson because the reel had ball bearings. I don't remember it leaking; however, I just completed a darkroom course at the local community darkroom, and their Pattersons leak horribly. I really don't want a leaky experience!

Wondering what people use and like and why. The general internet's opinion seems to boil the issue down to the reel design and the fact the Jobo can be expanded. 

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[Sandokan]

I agree about Paterson leaks - the lid needs carefull tightening to ensure it doesnt leek, which takes about 30s to go around a few times pressing it down. 

I would go for Jobo and later on look for the rollers for it. 

OR

I am a fan of AP reels (easier to load then Paterson reels especially for 120 films) but dont buy from Amazon where they are vastly overpriced. The lid is easier to seal and doesnt leek. 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/AP-Compact-Development-Box-2-Films/dp/B003PX4ZFU/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2F2VW5Z0VOVF&keywords=ap+developing+tank&qid=1692478775&sprefix=ap+developing+tank%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-3

https://topfoto-bodensee.ch/AP-Entwicklungsdose-klein-für-einen-35mm-Film-p184644495

https://topfoto-bodensee.ch/AP-Entwicklungsdose-gross-für-2x35mm-1x120-oder-1x127-p184631452

[bobtodrick]

I’ve used both, and both worked well.

I personally have never had issues with leakage on either,

One thing I did like about the Jobo..,the reels have a little clip/stopper that allows you to load two rolls of 120 on a single reel.

[ianman]

I’ve only ever used Patterson as far as I can remember. I had one leak but since just make sure the lid is pushed down properly. It doesn’t take me 30s though. Even so you’ll see if there is a leak or not during the first agitation, unless you use the twiddly stick thing (which I don’t) in which case it shouldn’t  ever be an issue.

[Pyrogallol]

I have been using this old version of Paterson tanks for 50 years and not had any problems. You do get a little leak around the grey top cap but nothing to worry about.

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[Bobonli]

Thanks. Almost certainly going with Patterson because I can get everything I need including sample chemicals in a kit for less than the Jobo version which doesn’t include a starter pack of chems. 

[Tom R]

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I've been using Paterson tanks for the last several years. (Having moved, I no longer have the space for a "proper changing room," i.e., a light-tight space large enough to safely load steel (Hewes) reels). Two things that might simplify your life if you're considering Paterson: (1) The Omega reels have larger on-ramps, saving lots of time with 135 and 120 films, and (2) Wetting the plastic cap makes for a better seal, in other words, less leaking around the lid. 

[BernardC]

I use both, and have never had the Patterson reels leak. You have to close them by pressing on the middle of the lid. This creates a vacuum, and you can tell if the seal is broken because the center of the lid pops-up.

I suspect that your community-darkroom's tank has been abused by generations of students. No worries with a new tank.

[Pyrogallol]

Don't press the centre of the grey lid too hard, I had one break and the centre dropped out, it was only 30+ years old. I now press round the outside, I have several of them.

[Tom R]

3 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Don't press the centre of the grey lid too hard, I had one break and the centre dropped out, it was only 30+ years old. I now press round the outside, I have several of them.

I'll second this recommendation .... a gentle push all around the edges should do the trick. Now that I think about it, I often apply pressure with one "heel" of my hand while using the other hand to walk around the perimeter of the tank. To Pyrogallol's point, I do not apply LOTs of pressure to the top of the lid, rather enough to sense that air has been displaced. 

[LocalHero1953]

Patterson 2-reel tank here, a different, more recent design to the one shown above - it has an all-over cap. I don't have leaks because I don't invert, I twiddle*. I am still using the original reels, and I have no trouble loading them with 35mm film. I recall that most of my loading problems were with 120 film - but that was about 40 years ago.

*Edit. I invert only when rinsing. It doesn't appear to leak, but then I have quite a bit of water splashing around then anyway.

Edited August 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[250swb]

I also twiddle and only invert when washing the film (using the Ilford method), and I've never had any leaks from Paterson tanks. But if you have more than one Paterson tank use the cap that it came with. And I learned photography using Paterson reels and they've never caused a problem either. It is true some film can be stickier, thicker, or thinner than other films and grab the reel from time to time, making it a bit more difficult to wind the film on. This only becomes a problem if you try to continue like a demented ape and demand the reel does full rotations back and forth, and this can crease the film. Instead use very tiny back and forth movements and this will inch even the most troublesome film onto the reel a fraction at a time.

I've always used Paterson for my own work and also taught photography, and I definitely wouldn't change to another developing system after over forty years and I've never felt any need to search for something better, even for C41 processing.

[Susie]

I'll concur with the others about how good Patterson tanks are.  Like some of the others I have found that the older, small caps can leak a bit, but the newer (<25 years old?) all-over caps don't.

I have always inverted during development (hence the leaks with an old 5 reel tank) but I'd be interested to know your 'twiddle' agitation sequence.

[LocalHero1953]

8 minutes ago, Susie said:

I'll concur with the others about how good Patterson tanks are.  Like some of the others I have found that the older, small caps can leak a bit, but the newer (<25 years old?) all-over caps don't.

I have always inverted during development (hence the leaks with an old 5 reel tank) but I'd be interested to know your 'twiddle' agitation sequence.

HC110 & Delta 400 ... As a starting point: 10 secs at the start, then 10 secs every 30secs. That's roughly 1 twiddle/sec. When reading instructions I treat 'agitation' as meaning twiddling or inversion interchangeably. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Susie]

Thanks Paul.  The reason I asked was that I was unsure if twiddling stirred the solution up enough to introduce fresh developer to the film.  I am currently using up 300 feet of Kodak Plus-X with Adox FX39 ll.

[ianman]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

if you try to continue like a demented ape

Have you been login on to my webcam? 

[LocalHero1953]

11 minutes ago, Susie said:

Thanks Paul.  The reason I asked was that I was unsure if twiddling stirred the solution up enough to introduce fresh developer to the film.  I am currently using up 300 feet of Kodak Plus-X with Adox FX39 ll.

It seems to be fine for a two reel tank. I might be cautious with a five reel tank!

[hansvons]

Jobo shaker here because Jobo reels can't be twiddled. But Jobos can be rolled. 😉My Jobo leaks a tad. Don't care, though. Just a few little drops in a session. 

Not sure about the Patterson, but the Jobo is happy with 500 ml. 

 

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[LocalHero1953]

32 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Not sure about the Patterson, but the Jobo is happy with 500 ml. 

 

The current Paterson takes 580ml, but it gets 600ml from me because it's easier to calculate the developer & fixer dilutions!

[bags27]

Patterson leaks so infrequently when developing B&W that I don't think about it.

But in color, if the Blix is around 95 degrees or more, hang on tightly to that top during the first inversions, and burp the lid every minute or two.