Wolfen NC400 - avoid!

[Huss]

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So I bought a bunch of rolls from B&H as it was on sale for $11.99/36.  Price normally is $18+  Did a little research online, it seems people were getting variable results.  Saw that those who shot it at box speed - ISO 400 - got what looked like very underexposed results.

With this in mind, I shot a roll at ISO 200.  At first blush it seems similar to Lomo Metropolis - bluish cool tones - except unlike Metropolis NC400 is extremely grainy, has a lot of halation and frankly is surprisingly unsharp.  Basically it behaves like a way expired film that was not stored appropriately.  The film also was delivered as loose rolls i.e. not in individual boxes like advertised, has no DX coding, and the Wolfen sticker is peeling off.  Seems very amateurish.

But bottom line, this seems to be old, expired film that is being passed off as something new.  If you like grainy, unsharp, cool toned film then this is for you.

 

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Edited August 19, 2023 by Huss

[Huss]

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[Zeitblom]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Huss:

So I bought a bunch of rolls from B&H as it was on sale for $11.99/36.  Price normally is $18+  Did a little research online, it seems people were getting variable results.  Saw that those who shot it at box speed - ISO 400 - got what looked like very underexposed results.

With this in mind, I shot a roll at ISO 200.  At first blush it seems similar to Lomo Metropolis - bluish cool tones - except unlike Metropolis NC400 is extremely grainy, has a lot of halation and frankly is surprisingly unsharp.  Basically it behaves like a way expired film that was not stored appropriately.  The film also was delivered as loose rolls i.e. not in individual boxes like advertised, has no DX coding, and the Wolfen sticker is peeling off.  Seems very amateurish.

But bottom line, this seems to be old, expired film that is being passed off as something new.  If you like grainy, unsharp, cool toned film then this is for you. ...

Thanks for your honest report.
Some will praise this film as artistically inspirational.
But I didn't expect much else and put this film in the class of Lomo films with their terrible color shifts.

[Anbaric]

I think it works rather well for the first shot. I suppose cool tones, grain, halation without Remjet, and a real speed less than the 400 ISO box speed are what you might expect if this did indeed start out as the tungsten-balanced Agfa XT320 movie film formula from the 80s. I wonder what happened to the final Agfa C41 consumer film formulas, and why they aren't trying to make films closer to them rather than tweaking this stuff? No rights to the recipes? Chemistry not available? Or are they just mainly interested in making movie film?

Edited August 19, 2023 by Anbaric

[Huss]

38 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

I think it works rather well for the first shot...

You are looking at it as a very compressed for internet sample.  It is really unsharp and grainy in real life.  Because it is some old, expired dug up film.

If 'you' like this look, this is the film for you.  

[Huss]

51 minutes ago, Zeitblom said:

Thanks for your honest report.
Some will praise this film as artistically inspirational.
But I didn't expect much else and put this film in the class of Lomo films with their terrible color shifts.

I actually really like Lomo Metropolis.  it does what it says, and has great sharpness and fine grain.  Because it is fresh film!

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[jakontil]

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Not a great film to invest my time with shooting, thanks for the heads up, been watching various results from the net, but ur samples only reconfirm it

[Huss]

Don’t get me wrong, I wanted to like it as I am all about new film hitting the market.  But this ain’t it.  

[Anbaric]

7 hours ago, Huss said:

You are looking at it as a very compressed for internet sample.  It is really unsharp and grainy in real life.  Because it is some old, expired dug up film.

If 'you' like this look, this is the film for you.  

I don't think it's expired film they dug out of the freezer - they explicitly say it's new, and they have the coating facility to make it. But their starting point is a movie film formula from 1985.

[hansvons]

9 hours ago, Anbaric said:

I think it works rather well for the first shot. I suppose cool tones, grain, halation without Remjet, and a real speed less than the 400 ISO box speed are what you might expect if this did indeed start out as the tungsten-balanced Agfa XT320 movie film formula from the 80s.

 

I've shot a few on-air promos on this film (Agfa XT 320) early in my career. It was grain hell. But the colours had a very distinct colour that I quite liked. For the 'right' colours in daylight, an 85 filter was advised. I preferred to use an 81EF because I liked the cooler and more muted colours. When fully converted to tungsten, this film looked orangey-muddy to my eyes. Because I was a young, inexperienced lad at that time, I take these memories with a large pinch of salt. 

At that time, however, Kodak already had brought their Vision 1 stock on the market. Especially the 500T 5218 was a real game-changer in the high-speed class compared to its predecessor 5216 which was as grainy as the Agfa XT 320 (with that film, I had a traumatic experience shooting it outside at night on S-16mm). None of them I ever shot at box speed. Too grainy. 

The contemporary 5219 is a great high-speed film that I now shoot with my Leicas but IE is still somewhere at 320/400. 

I’m not sure if it makes sense to reverse-engineer a film today based on an 80ies non-tabular-grained film. I find it more productive to establish ENC-2 processes as a regular processing method for modern movie film still photography. I do that at home but I know that's not for everybody.

[Huss]

8 hours ago, Anbaric said:

I don't think it's expired film they dug out of the freezer - they explicitly say it's new, and they have the coating facility to make it. But their starting point is a movie film formula from 1985.

You Sir, are correct.  They do say it is a new film.  But it behaves like an expired one that was poorly stored.

[250swb]

I'm not seeing where it is dreadful? Grainy yes, but compared to the over exposed pastel shades drippy movement I think it clearly needs using in a different way. Maybe get out into New York on a Winters day and stop criticising it because it doesn't snuggle in the comfort blanket? But isn't that how all films are judged, time, place, and inclination?

[Huss]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

I'm not seeing where it is dreadful? Grainy yes, but compared to the over exposed pastel shades drippy movement I think it clearly needs using in a different way. Maybe get out into New York on a Winters day and stop criticising it because it doesn't snuggle in the comfort blanket? But isn't that how all films are judged, time, place, and inclination?

Grainy, extremely unsharp, needs at least a stop over indicated speed, limited/muddy shadows.

but by all means, if that is what you want, here it is.  And now $23 roll at the Orwo store!

https://www.orwo.shop/en-us/products/wolfen-nc400-36exp-limited-edition

I just shipped my remaining rolls back.

It’s not as if I am hung up on a ‘perfect’ film.  My fridge is full of films from ISO 1.6, 3, 6, 12, 25 all the way to (claimed) 3200 films.

Those all have their own unique look and purpose.  The problem I have w NC400 is that it just looks like old, poorly stored film. Or as if you underexposed it and the shop used  expired chems to develop it.  But again, if that is what you want, I did the groundwork for you.

[Huss]

When I get sharper, crisper, more detailed images shooting 110 film than 35mm NC400, I know NC400 is not for me

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[Huss]

Yet another review that shows how horrible this film is.

 

https://www.35mmc.com/24/09/2023/5-frames-of-mt-inari-on-orwo-wolfen-nc400-with-a-pentax-kx/

[chris_livsey]

Rumour has it that the subject of thread:

 

Is in fact this Wolfen film.

 

 

[christoph_d]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:11 AM, Huss said:

So I bought a bunch of rolls from B&H as it was on sale for $11.99/36.  Price normally is $18+  Did a little research online, it seems people were getting variable results.  Saw that those who shot it at box speed - ISO 400 - got what looked like very underexposed results.

With this in mind, I shot a roll at ISO 200.  At first blush it seems similar to Lomo Metropolis - bluish cool tones - except unlike Metropolis NC400 is extremely grainy, has a lot of halation and frankly is surprisingly unsharp.  Basically it behaves like a way expired film that was not stored appropriately.  The film also was delivered as loose rolls i.e. not in individual boxes like advertised, has no DX coding, and the Wolfen sticker is peeling off.  Seems very amateurish.

But bottom line, this seems to be old, expired film that is being passed off as something new.  If you like grainy, unsharp, cool toned film then this is for you.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

If the NC400 is anything like the NC500 that I tried, then indeed it is a special film with peculiar characteristics. Having said that, I find those characteristics intriguing. This will never be my all round film, but I can see its value in certain situations, as I know do other photographers. What I read from your contributions here is that this film did not meet your expectations (as well as some speculation as to the expiration date of the emulsion).

I can understand that you did not like this film but I cannot understand - or agree - with your generalized recommendation to avoid this film. 

 

On 8/19/2023 at 2:39 AM, Anbaric said:

I think it works rather well for the first shot. I suppose cool tones, grain, halation without Remjet, and a real speed less than the 400 ISO box speed are what you might expect if this did indeed start out as the tungsten-balanced Agfa XT320 movie film formula from the 80s. I wonder what happened to the final Agfa C41 consumer film formulas, and why they aren't trying to make films closer to them rather than tweaking this stuff? No rights to the recipes? Chemistry not available? Or are they just mainly interested in making movie film?

After WW2 the original Agfa split up into Agfa in what was then Western Germany and Orwo in what was then East Germany. I believe the company named Agfa produced the movie film that you are referring to. ORWO evolved after the unification of Germany into what is now FilmoTec GmbH, still producing a variety of nice films. However, I think they never produced or had access to any of the Agfa movie film formulas that you are referring to. 

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, christoph_d said:

After WW2 the original Agfa split up into Agfa in what was then Western Germany and Orwo in what was then East Germany. I believe the company named Agfa produced the movie film that you are referring to. ORWO evolved after the unification of Germany into what is now FilmoTec GmbH, still producing a variety of nice films. However, I think they never produced or had access to any of the Agfa movie film formulas that you are referring to. 

The history is pretty convoluted, but the current ORWO has both East and West German heritage. FilmoTec is now under the same ownership as InovisCoat, a company founded by ex-employees of Agfa-Gevaert in the 2000s, who had 'technical expertise in film emulsions and coating' and were able to acquire Agfa coating machines from Leverkusen. So the new holding company, Seal 1818, brings together elements of the long-sundered branches of the AGFA family. The link with Agfa movie film is made by ORWO themselves ('At the core of our new colour film lies a unique chemical formula based on the wonderful and legendary Agfa stock last used in the Oscar winning film ‘Out of Africa’').

Edited October 25, 2023 by Anbaric

[christoph_d]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

The history is pretty convoluted, but the current ORWO has both East and West German heritage. FilmoTec is now under the same ownership as InovisCoat, a company founded by ex-employees of Agfa-Gevaert in the 2000s, who had 'technical expertise in film emulsions and coating' and were able to acquire Agfa coating machines from Leverkusen. So the new holding company, Seal 1818, brings together elements of the long-sundered branches of the AGFA family. The link with Agfa movie film is made by ORWO themselves ('At the core of our new colour film lies a unique chemical formula based on the wonderful and legendary Agfa stock last used in the Oscar winning film ‘Out of Africa’').

Thanks for the info, so there may be a link to the AGFA film heritage after all. However, making films is quite difficult, so even with the formula the result may not be guaranteed.

By the way, your link goes to the ORWOshop not to FilmoTec. I understand that ORWOshop (although they seem to infer in their presentation that they are the producer of the film) is a distributor of the films of FilmoTec based in London, and beyond that in no way related or belonging to FilmoTec (My shopping experience with ORWOshop are atrocious, but that's a different story). 

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[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, christoph_d said:

Thanks for the info, so there may be a link to the AGFA film heritage after all. However, making films is quite difficult, so even with the formula the result may not be guaranteed.

By the way, your link goes to the ORWOshop not to FilmoTec. I understand that ORWOshop (although they seem to infer in their presentation that they are the producer of the film) is a distributor of the films of FilmoTec based in London, and beyond that in no way related or belonging to FilmoTec (My shopping experience with ORWOshop are atrocious, but that's a different story). 

There seems to be a complicated network of companies in the 'ORWO family', so the sales company probably isn't the same as the production company (or companies). But it's not really clear who owns what:

https://www.orwo.family

That umbrella site and their social media accounts link only to orwo.shop for film sales, so I'd assume that's their official sales channel and they sanction the marketing blurb on it. But judging from your experience I think if I try any of their stuff I may shop elsewhere! At least one of the usual suspects in the UK seems to carry it when it's in stock.

I have dim memories of an ORWO colour negative film of some description being sold cheaply in the UK in the early 90s (perhaps it was still E German stock, though I think someone with the brand rights may have sold rebadged film from elsewhere under the ORWO name later on). It gave rather peculiar colours (hipsters would love it today!), though whether that was because it was genuinely odd or because discount UK machine printing services weren't calibrated for it is another question.