Leicaflex SL2 compatible lenses - 2 vs. 3 cam?

[astrogirl514]

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Hi all, 

I'm a new owner of a black Leicaflex SL2 trying to decide what lens to purchase. I'm switching over to analog photography after 5 years of shooting manual with a Fujifilm X-T1 and was hoping to get a zoom first but it looks like the list of non-ROM zoom lens that work with the SL2 is pretty limited? I know there are similar threads about lens compatibility for the Leicaflex SL (mostly the SL but I did see some comments for the SL2) but between those threads, photography reviews, and Google, I am very, very confused as a Leica newbie on what lenses will actually work with the SL2. Hoping some of you more experienced Leica users can straighten things out for me...

Peter's Photo Channel: 

Quote

"The LEICAFLEX SL2 requires so-called 2-cam or 3-cam lenses, only then will the information be correctly transmitted to the camera's exposure meter. LEICA has often retrofitted old 1-cam lenses with 2- or 3-cam, so even very old lenses can have the correct connection format."

Film Photography Project:

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"Greatest lens compatibility: Leicaflex SL2.  It is compatible with all R-lenses ranging from the original 1-cam lens, to the final-generation ROM-lenses, with few exceptions."

Photo Ethnography:

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"Upgrading older lenses / Using adapters

Although older lenses were originally made with 1- or 2-cams, Leica offered an upgrade service to bring them up to 3-cams (you can also modify a R-only or ROM-only lens backwards to 3-cam as well, although you lose the ROM contacts if you do this)."

APO-Telyt:

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"That said, it is possible to have the cams of most (but not all) lenses upgraded in order to make an older lens fully compatible with newer cameras (or vice-versa). For example, a single-cam lens can be upgraded to triple-cam and an R-cam lens can be converted to triple-cam."

Leica Nemeng (NEMENG?):

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"You can have lenses backward converted from ROM to 3 cam by any experienced camera technician.

What does it typically cost? In May 2004 Douglas Herr noted:

[…] Leica USA charges $200 for the conversion. Don Goldberg (DAG) charges less and offers the option of leaving the first cam off, which means no metering with Leicaflex Standard and no aperture display in the viewfinder of the SL2. Without the first cam the SL and SL2 will still meter correctly. Don's conversion of my APO-R 280mm w/o the first cam was $140. Sherry Krauter also does this work and told me she'd charge less than Leica USA."

But when I emailed Sherry Krauter to see if she could backward convert a Vario-Elmar-R 35-70mm f/4 (ROM only) to 3-cam for use with my SL2, she said:

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"An SL2 needs 2 cams.  No I cannot do this repair."

So do 2-cam lenses not even work with the Leicaflex SL2? Google has been useless as everything popping up is for the digital Leica SL2 or the older Leicaflex SL. And has anyone ever modified their ROM lens for an SL2? If so, who did you send your lens off to? Any info to point me in the right direction for buying a lens would be extremely appreciated!

 

Cheers,

Keri

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[dpitt]

Maybe this diagram will help. A lot of lenses are 3-cam. ROM lenses are rare and expensive. R-Only is the only category you could find easily that is not compatible with your Leicaflex.

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Edited August 8, 2023 by dpitt

[astrogirl514]

Thanks for that diagram, I have seen that online. What makes me nervous is that I was looking at picking up a 3-cam lens since they're cheaper but Sherry Krauter said the SL2 needs 2-cam, which contradicts a bunch of other places (i.e. that diagram) saying SL2 takes both 2-cam and 3-cam. 

Wondering if anyone with an SL2 can verify this diagram.

[a.noctilux]

Hello Keri,

I see that you searched a lot.

I don't have Leicaflex SL2 only plain SL which is mainly SL2 with less features.

Talking  about R mount, the best way is to choose your lens (not yet bought ! ) then ask around for compatibility.

As you know, some lenses had been adapted.

Had you seen this Wiki page, https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Leicaflex_SL2_and_SL2MOT

 

another page in French

Leica R lenses

the third cam is to use with R Leica... R3 to R7/RE

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by a.noctilux

[dpitt]

48 minutes ago, astrogirl514 said:

Thanks for that diagram, I have seen that online. What makes me nervous is that I was looking at picking up a 3-cam lens since they're cheaper but Sherry Krauter said the SL2 needs 2-cam, which contradicts a bunch of other places (i.e. that diagram) saying SL2 takes both 2-cam and 3-cam. 

Wondering if anyone with an SL2 can verify this diagram.

Leicaflex SL takes anything with at least 2 cams. So 2-cams and 3-cams are fine. SL2 is the same as SL regarding mount compatibility. I only have an SL and a Leicaflex, as well as some R camera's and a R8. The diagram is correct in my experience.

For those that use an adapter on digital. All lenses can be used, and with the same limited functionality. On native Leica R-L adapters ROM lenses have a minor advantage in a sense that the lens profile is chosen automatically and extra info is read out of the lens like lens FL, zoom position at time of shot and aperture used. For all other mount types the correct lens profile has to be chosen manually on camera.

[wizard]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb astrogirl514:

What makes me nervous is that I was looking at picking up a 3-cam lens since they're cheaper but Sherry Krauter said the SL2 needs 2-cam,

What Sherry Krauter means is that lenses that don't have cams 1 and 2 (such as ROM lenses, which only have cam 3, also called the R-cam) will not work on a Leicaflex SL2. 3-cam lenses (which have cams 1 and 2 plus the R-cam, hence they are called 3-cam) are fully compatible with the Leicaflex SL2. I own a Leicaflex SL2 and a Leica R9 and use 3-cam lenses on both cameras without any problems.

In summary, you will be fine with either 2-cam or 3-cam lenses on your SL2, but avoid R-only and ROM lenses.

[nbgronlie]

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Hi! For your SL2, the main discriminator you are looking for is the shape of the back flange surface of the lens that mounts to the camera.

If the lens surface is completely flat with no step, then it will fit on your SL2. You can use 1-cam, 2-cam or 3-cam lenses, but the latter two are the only ones that will fully couple with the SL2 meter and aperture controls. The 1-cam lenses will not do that (but can still be used with limited functionality).

If the lens back surface has a step, then it will not fit on your SL2.

At https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-camera/leica-r-mount you can see images of the two back lens flange types. The image at the top of the article is a 3-cam Leicaflex mount flange and is the completely flat one. Any lens with this mount will work on your SL2. All Leicaflex-compatible lenses have this flange, so make sure you can see this in a photo or in person before buying a lens.

The second back flange image further down next to the R-cam lenses paragraph is the type with the step on it. This will not physically mount on the SL2 because of the step.

Good luck with your lens search!

Neal

[bherman01545]

The 3 Cam lenses are the most universal of all of the Leica R lenses as they can be used on the later Leicaflex R models and all the way down to the original Leicaflex, (at least that is my understanding) The only downside to not using a ROM lens would be if it were mounted via an adapter to the latest Leica Digital cameras as it would not automatically transmit the EXIF data. For me, that wasn't an issue since the modern Leica digital cameras allow you to dial in the actual R lens used in the menu, so the EXIF would be transmitted in this case.

Here is a great article:

https://www.keh.com/shop/blog/leica-r-lenses-understanding-camsd-Brad

[davidmknoble]

@astrogirl514, first Sherry Krauter is well known for doing great work.  It is possible, when typing, to hit the 3 instead of the 2.  IPhones are the worst!

I have an SL and SL2 and love to shoot film.  So, I also have to R6.2’s, R8’s and R9’s.  Since I like digital, I use the R-L adapter with the SL2-S digital body.

So, notice on the chart @dpitt posted that the 3-cam lenses are compatible with all Leicaflex, SL2, R3-7, and R8-9 bodies.  I say this because 3-cam lenses allow you some flexibility to decide to use other R bodies if you want to.  I believe there are some 3-cam lenses out there that have been upgraded that may not work with R8-R9 bodies, but you would have to fact check me there.  The R 21mm version 1 is an example of one that requires the mirror to be up, which means no through the lens focusing, so be sure you understand the lenses.  The wiki here is fantastic.

A side note, the R6.2 is the only R body that has a spring shutter meaning no battery is necessary to use the camera, like the M film cameras.  A batter is used only to power the meter.  Some repair folks will still set the timing on the R6.2 for you to spec so that shutter speeds are accurate even if the meter is not.  The meter can be checked against a hand held meter.

I love the tank-like aspect of the SL2 film bodies, but I find that the viewfinder is not near as bright as later models.  I have 3-cam lenses that include the Summicron 50 v2, the summicron 35 v2, the 90 elmarit v2, and the 60 macro v2.  These are great lenses and work across the leica R film cameras.

If you are really unsure, ask the person you are purchasing the lens from if it works with the SL2 film body and ask about returns.  If it doesn’t work, then you may be able to return it at least based on the fact it does not work as advertised (ebay).  Lecia stores are really knowledgeable and I trust their advice.

Hope you enjoy, love to see some images!