Why Is There A QC Issue As Of Recent Years?

[dewittehd]

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21 hours ago, 250swb said:

I guess you never lived through the Cold War when it was entirely possible everybody would be obliterated at the push of a button. I don't think anybody really cared if their lens was in Germany or the USA for repair as the Russian ships closed in on Cuba.

And talking of lenses, what about the Canada 35mm Summicron v4 which can fall in two!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

 

What does the Cold War has to do with quality-issues at Leica? Lucky you didn't live in Rome under Nero....................

[Huss]

1 minute ago, dewittehd said:

What does the Cold War has to do with quality-issues at Leica? Lucky you didn't live in Rome under Nero....................

Let me tell you about my time on Vesuvius.

[250swb]

38 minutes ago, Huss said:

Using the current - and apparently still ongoing - film scratching issue.  There aren't thousands keeping quiet.  Leica admitted the production defects and claimed that it was only a batch.  But the admission was forced - only after being called out on it.  And they are staying as quiet as they can about it while still shipping defective MPs and M6s judging by recent complaints.

And you are saying Leica didn’t admit to their failings in the past? I don’t know why you’d say that given they hung their head in shame many a time.

[250swb]

35 minutes ago, dewittehd said:

What does the Cold War has to do with quality-issues at Leica? Lucky you didn't live in Rome under Nero....................

Expectations that today is worse than yesterday. The thread took a turn and interesting comparisons were made, didn’t you read through it? Perhaps in the context though we should remind ourselves Leica did not make cameras for Nero or we’d be asking why didn’t Leica use better coatings because all the images look very ‘smokey’.

[Huss]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

And you are saying Leica didn’t admit to their failings in the past? I don’t know why you’d say that given they hung their head in shame many a time.

They've done an unusual amount of failing.  Time for a neck brace perhaps?

[Warton]

I don't even need to read the content of this post to be able to answer this question.

Very simple, because there wasn't internet half century ago.

[RayD28]

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It will be interesting to see what happens in five or ten years from now when M6 v2 & late model MP owners start selling their cameras.  At least with the M9 you could verify it had a replaced sensor.  

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

It will be interesting to see what happens in five or ten years from now when M6 v2 & late model MP owners start selling their cameras.  At least with the M9 you could verify it had a replaced sensor.  

I should imagine that by then there will be all the other issues that all film cameras develop with time: shutter speeds, light leaks, spot holes in shutter curtains, sticky shutter buttons. Pressure plates will be just one more issue to test with your first test film - and that isn't an issue that develops with age, and is easy to check without even developing a film. And remember, there is still little info on the numbers of cameras affected: forum noise has minimal relationship to incidence.

Edited August 8, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Susie]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:06 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

This would be a good thread to list pre-internet quality issues.

I'll start: M6 top plate zinc bubbling.

The top plate on my M6 has bubbled.  Does it worry me?  No!  I just carry on using the camera to take pictures, rather than worry if it cramps my posing style in Chelsea!

[Huss]

6 hours ago, RayD28 said:

It will be interesting to see what happens in five or ten years from now when M6 v2 & late model MP owners start selling their cameras.  At least with the M9 you could verify it had a replaced sensor.  

It will take you two minutes to check if the camera scratches film or not.  Super easy, super quick.

[Huss]

13 hours ago, Warton said:

I don't even need to read the content of this post to be able to answer this question.

Very simple, because there wasn't internet half century ago.

Very simple - 50 years ago Leica was focussed on making a quality product that was used by professional and amateur photographers alike.

In the last few decades they shifted their attention to becoming a luxury brand, opening boutique stores and a fancy visitor's campus.  Those boutique stores and that campus cost a lot of money to maintain. This fluff did not exist before the internet.

[adan]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:53 AM, maxfairclough said:

I am just astounded that over recent years, at least since I invested in a Leica MP (2020) that there has been endless QC issues with certain production models,

Hmmm - can you (but not just you) name a global event that started in 2020 and is still ongoing (at a lower level)?

Five letters, a dash, and two numbers, beginning with "C."

It does not excuse all the problems with Leica (and even Leitz) QC and after-sale servicing (two different things), which existed before from time to time.

But a shut-down for several months. followed by more months of reduced production, will create a deep hole, in both time and staffing, that takes far more than "months" to climb out of.

[madNbad]

There have always been varying degrees of quality control problems at Leica but when they were producing thousands of cameras each year, there were a lot more employees to look at each one as it moved down the line. In peak production years, only two variants were being made, the M2 and M3. Film bodies are still being offered but almost as a sideline boutique item. Fewer workers are involved in assembling the new film bodies and many parts are from outside source who may have their own QC issues. Leica has become a luxury brand and buyers should expect "mechanical perfection" when spending the money for a dream camera.

[Huss]

For all the quality issues Leica has, when you get an outfit together that works properly, it is a fantastic experience.  And why I use Leica gear more than any of my other.

[earleygallery]

The Leica R4 quickly earned a reputation for electrical faults after it was released. I got one of the last new R3's at the time (sadly since developed faults after about 35 years).

I'm not sure Leica are any more faulty than most other brands but I do wonder at how some stuff manages to get out of the factory after apparently being individually checked AND personally signed off.........

[logan2z]

I guess I've been lucky.  I've purchased quite a few pieces of Leica gear over the last five or so years and have never encountered any QC-related issues.  It started with an M-A in 2017 that has been flawless.  More recently, I've purchased a Summicron 50mm, a Summicron 35mm, an Elmarit 28mm, and a Super Elmar 21mm, all brand new.  I also purchased a Summarit 35mm/2.4 and 75mm/2.4 a few years back.  All of these arrived without issue and continue that way to this day.  The only issue I've had with Leica QC was with an M2 I purchased from a Leica dealer that had just returned from a full overhaul at Wetzlar and needed to go back to fix an issue with the lens mount - apparently introduced during servicing.  This took much longer than I expected (3+ months). 

Despite the marketing-speak, there's no such thing as 'Mechanical Perfection'.  Leica should do themselves a favor and drop phrases like that from their vocabulary, they just come back to haunt them during conversations like this.  In realty, every company has QC issues, despite the cost of their products.  Go on a Ferrari forum and see what people are saying about their brand new cars  

This is cliche, but what really has an impact on customer satisfaction is how a company deals with issues.  IMO, Leica really needs to work on that area of their business.  If someone buys a brand new camera or lens (or takes delivery of a camera that has just been serviced at the factory) and there is an issue with it, it should be fixed with the highest priority.  If that's not possible with the company's current repair staff, then that needs to be addressed.  Lack of training, difficulty hiring, etc. is not the customer's problem.  I firmly believe that if the repair times were more reasonable then people would be far less likely to complain. 

I certainly wouldn't be thrilled if my $5K M-A or MP (or my $9K M11) was delivered with an issue, but if the company communicated repair status well and did their best to return the faulty item in a few weeks rather than several months then that would go a long way to softening the blow.

[FrozenInTime]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

Despite the marketing-speak, there's no such thing as 'Mechanical Perfection'.  Leica should do themselves a favor and drop phrases like that from their vocabulary, they just come back to haunt them during conversations like this.  In realty, every company has QC issues, despite the cost of their products.  Go on a Ferrari forum and see what people are saying about their brand new cars  

This is cliche, but what really has an impact on customer satisfaction is how a company deals with issues.  IMO, Leica really needs to work on that area of their business.  If someone buys a brand new camera or lens (or takes delivery of a camera that has just been serviced at the factory) and there is an issue with it, it should be fixed with the highest priority.  If that's not possible with the company's current repair staff, then that needs to be addressed.  Lack of training, difficulty hiring, etc. is not the customer's problem.  I firmly believe that if the repair times were more reasonable then people would be far less likely to complain. 

I certainly wouldn't be thrilled if my $5K M-A or MP (or my $9K M11) was delivered with an issue, but if the company communicated repair status well and did their best to return the faulty item in a few weeks rather than several months then that would go a long way to softening the blow.

Just been through such a cycle: I was actually very reluctant to buy a new MP with the shadow of reported issues, but eventually did so to beat the price rises, only to find a tool slip mark scratch on the top plate; such a camera should have been caught in factory, reworked or gone to out with a QM2 tag.

This is where a good dealer plays their role well and arranges an immediate replacement from Leica; thanks Ffordes.

Still it did come as a relief to find the pressure plate to be scratch free after running a couple of films.

[FrozenInTime]

2 hours ago, earleygallery said:

The Leica R4 quickly earned a reputation for electrical faults after it was released. I got one of the last new R3's at the time (sadly since developed faults after about 35 years).

I'm not sure Leica are any more faulty than most other brands but I do wonder at how some stuff manages to get out of the factory after apparently being individually checked AND personally signed off.........

You can thank cutting edge British electronics for that ! 

 

[davidmknoble]

There are a lot of folks listing a lot of problems here. I am curious if any have actually experienced a problem with the purchase of a new Leica item?

I have been purchasing Leica gear since 2000 and I have only had one problem.  I purchased a Leica M/A black chrome new, and the rangefinder was not properly aligned. I sent it back and in 30 days it was properly adjusted and never had another problem.

I still use a Leica IIIC sharkskin (1940) and an M3 (1965?) neither of which have had any issues in 10 years after a simple CLA.  My lenses all focus properly, f/stops work.  The fact that I use cameras that are 60-80 years old is pretty astounding.  I still use a Leica R8 and R9 with the digital back (imacon sensor, never needed replaced).  My S system and lenses have stood up to rain, snow, ice, and sand and still don’t need a CLA.

I understand there are some announced quality issues and Leica has had issues in the past - but they always offer a public fix and typically don’t charge.  There are also always isolated cases that don’t sound like they should, but most companies have that issue.

So, just curious about anyone purchasing new equipment with a problem and how it got resolved.  Used equipment doesn’t count unless you have firsthand knowledge of how it was kept and treated.

Just my thoughts…

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

8 hours ago, adan said:

Hmmm - can you (but not just you) name a global event that started in 2020 and is still ongoing (at a lower level)?

Five letters, a dash, and two numbers, beginning with "C."

It does not excuse all the problems with Leica (and even Leitz) QC and after-sale servicing (two different things), which existed before from time to time.

But a shut-down for several months. followed by more months of reduced production, will create a deep hole, in both time and staffing, that takes far more than "months" to climb out of.

Yup, post #8.

Jeff