Is it time to ditch the Q2/3 and fully embrace the SL2?

[SrMi]

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5 hours ago, Sohail said:

It's the pictures that ultimately matter. At the end of a shooting day, I'd rather have a sore back and great images than a rested back and mediocre images.

However, I have noticed I get better images when my back is not sore :).

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[Dr. G]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:55 PM, Sohail said:

The 50/1.4 SL? No, that was definitely the wrong conclusion. 😄 It's by far the best lens in an L mount. 

I have both the 50/1.4 SL and the 50 APO SL.  The only time I take the 50 APO out is if I need a 50 that focuses a little closer (which I do need at times).  The 50/1.4 stopped down is almost as perfect as the APO lens.  Only problem is that I love the 35 APO and I find the 75 APO to be more to my liking than the 90, so I have a 35/50/75 kit.  

[Sohail]

All great lenses. I used to own the 50 APO SL. It didn't have much character for me. Also had the 75. Found it too close to the 50. Ended up getting the 90. Me: 28/50/90

[Chaemono]

It could be that the pictures come out looking nicer in B&W with the 50 Summilux-M ASPH II wide open and nicer in color with the 50 Summilux-SL wide open. Love the SL2-S colors in C1 (the reds are off, though, and usually require some work). Both of these were opened in C1 first and imported as TIFFs into LR for some further processing.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fgf8Hw/

M11 Monochrom

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SL2-S (slightly cropped)

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

The 50 Summilux-SL is a lens for pros who can put it to good use IMO. The only reason I have it is because it was the first and for a long time the only L-mount prime lens. For my needs, 24 MP of the SL2-S with the native Summicron lenses fully suffice. I shot the SL2-S next to the S5 II the other day and was surprised that it isn’t much bigger than the S5. I hadn’t taken the camera out in about three years. I absolutely love the colors and the WB of the SL2-S. 

[Sohail]

Took this some weeks back with the 50 Summilux SL on the SL2. It's a gorgeous lens.

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Edited July 13, 2023 by Sohail

[panoreserve]

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To be honest, I think 6000 euros is too much money for a Q3 with a lens that is still not optimized (and unfortunately also without IBIS; OIS has a slightly negative impact on optical performance). I also find that the SL with Apo 28 is not that heavy. And if you do without the lens hood and additionally mask off the camera body and if you are able to work discreetly (this is the most important thing! Even with a Q you can be conspicuous if you do something clumsy!), then, in my opinion, the combo SL & Apo 28  can be described as relatively inconspicuous😉.

 

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Edited July 14, 2023 by panoreserve

[Sohail]

22 minutes ago, panoreserve said:

To be honest, I think 6000 euros is too much money for a Q3 with a lens that is still not optimized (and unfortunately also without IBIS; OIS has a slightly negative impact on optical performance). I also find that the SL with Apo 28 is not that heavy. And if you do without the lens hood and additionally mask off the camera body and if you are able to work discreetly (this is the most important thing! Even with a Q you can be conspicuous if you do something clumsy!), then, in my opinion, the combo SL & Apo 28  can be described as relatively inconspicuous😉.

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You're right. It's where I'm going with this. If you have an SL camera it makes no sense to me to pair it with a Q2/3 for three big reasons:

1. The SL28 is lighter in weight than the Q (if like me you carry the Q with an SL+ another lens)
2. The SL28 is cheaper than a Q3 by at least $800 USD -- much more if you buy the SL28 used (up to $2000)
3. The SL28 has far superior optics.

It's a win-win!

Edited July 14, 2023 by Sohail

[jplomley]

My dealer just got in a demo 28 APO....so tempted after reading through this thread. Sohail, based on your experience thus far with the lens, anything to be aware of before laying down the cash? Would you do it again?

[John Smith]

4 hours ago, Sohail said:

You're right. It's where I'm going with this. If you have an SL camera it makes no sense to me to pair it with a Q2/3 for three big reasons:

1. The SL28 is lighter in weight than the Q (if like me you carry the Q with an SL+ another lens)
2. The SL28 is cheaper than a Q3 by at least $800 USD -- much more if you buy the SL28 used (up to $2000)
3. The SL28 has far superior optics.

It's a win-win!

I'm with Sohail on this. I have the 28SL and a Q2M. I plan on selling the Q2M. It is easier to deal with the 28SL and other APO lenses. And the 28SL is up there with all the other APOs, including the 35SL. I thought I'd be keeping the Q2M forever, but the SL just works without any compromises.

[Virob]

4 hours ago, Sohail said:

You're right. It's where I'm going with this. If you have an SL camera it makes no sense to me to pair it with a Q2/3 for three big reasons:

1. The SL28 is lighter in weight than the Q (if like me you carry the Q with an SL+ another lens)
2. The SL28 is cheaper than a Q3 by at least $800 USD -- much more if you buy the SL28 used (up to $2000)
3. The SL28 has far superior optics.

It's a win-win!

I don’t agree that there is no sense.

1) A used Q can also be purchased for less.

2) having a Q plus SL means less lens swapping.

3) Q+SL provides insurance if one camera goes down.

4)Q is great when going somewhere casually and you want something better than a camera phone.

But I do agree that you need to find what works best for you.

 

 

[Sohail]

2 hours ago, jplomley said:

My dealer just got in a demo 28 APO....so tempted after reading through this thread. Sohail, based on your experience thus far with the lens, anything to be aware of before laying down the cash? Would you do it again?

I intend to sell my Q2 soon and get the 28SL. Hopefully today. I got the Q when it came out. It was great. I also got the Q2 before the 28SL came out but stuck with it. I was hoping the Q3 would be better. It isn't.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Sohail

[Sohail]

16 minutes ago, Virob said:

I don’t agree that there is no sense.

1) A used Q can also be purchased for less.

2) having a Q plus SL means less lens swapping.

3) Q+SL provides insurance if one camera goes down.

4)Q is great when going somewhere casually and you want something better than a camera phone.

But I do agree that you need to find what works best for you.

 

 

No sense "for me".

A used Q is another generation away. It was a great camera then. The Q3 isn't worth it anymore if you have the 28SL as an option.
I have 2 SL bodies. It gives me enough versatility. If I go out with just one body (the 28SL and SL2), it's only adding 790g or so (compared to taking out a Q). I can also go out causally with a 35, 50 or 90. Same weight. It works as a casual camera.
 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Sohail

[Virob]

18 minutes ago, Sohail said:

No sense "for me".

A used Q is another generation away. It was a great camera then. The Q3 isn't worth it anymore if you have the 28SL as an option.
I have 2 SL bodies. It gives me enough versatility. If I go out with just one body (the 28SL and SL2), it's only adding 790g or so (compared to taking out a Q). I can also go out causally with a 35, 50 or 90. Same weight. It works as a casual camera.
 

I was using the terms Q and SL generically, lots of used Q2s out there.
I missed that you already have, and have no issue carrying 2 SL bodies. In your case, I agree the 28apo makes the most sense.

what are you waiting for?🤣

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, panoreserve said:

To be honest, I think 6000 euros is too much money for a Q3 with a lens that is still not optimized (and unfortunately also without IBIS; OIS has a slightly negative impact on optical performance). I also find that the SL with Apo 28 is not that heavy. And if you do without the lens hood and additionally mask off the camera body and if you are able to work discreetly (this is the most important thing! Even with a Q you can be conspicuous if you do something clumsy!), then, in my opinion, the combo SL & Apo 28  can be described as relatively inconspicuous😉.

I do not believe that OIS negatively impacts optical performance any more than IBIS. Do you have a source for your claim?

Leica initially suggested turning Q's OIS off at higher shutter speeds, but I have not seen any difference in IQ.

The difference between 1535g and 718g is considerable in my book. 

 

[panoreserve]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

I do not believe that OIS negatively impacts optical performance any more than IBIS. Do you have a source for your claim?

Leica initially suggested turning Q's OIS off at higher shutter speeds, but I have not seen any difference in IQ.

The difference between 1535g and 718g is considerable in my book. 

 

According to various product managers at LEICA in Wetzlar (SL system; optics department), OIS has a slight negative impact on imaging performance (approx. 10%), especially with wide-angle lenses. This is another reason why the Vario SL 16/35 is so excellent - it does without optical image stabilization... - Whether this is only of theoretical importance or also has practical, noticeable relevance, I cannot answer clearly. However, I would have welcomed the implementation of IBIS instead of OIS in the Q3 (cf. Ricoh's current GR models, which work with IBIS despite their tiny size - I know it's "only" APSC, but it's still remarkable). ..

[Olaf_ZG]

Interesting thread and interesting question. I am really not sure what to do: invest in the new Q, SL lenses or switch to another system. So thank you all for your contribution.

[helged]

For me the situation is 'simple': The (outstanding) SL primes are excellent on existing L-bodies (not only Leica) and they can - and will - shine on SL3 (rumored for 2024) and forthcoming bodies, for a long, long time. Possibly on a Sigma Foveon FF sensor as well... Q will also, I believe, function for a long time. But it comes without upgrades, with the exception of occational FW updates. For the cost of Q, I rather spend money on SL. 

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Hallo,

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[Sohail]

4 hours ago, Virob said:

I was using the terms Q and SL generically, lots of used Q2s out there.
I missed that you already have, and have no issue carrying 2 SL bodies. In your case, I agree the 28apo makes the most sense.

what are you waiting for?🤣

I have 2 SL2 bodies. It doesn't mean I carry both all the time. It gives you more options. 
Buying the SL28 tomorrow.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Sohail

[Sohail]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Interesting thread and interesting question. I am really not sure what to do: invest in the new Q, SL lenses or switch to another system. So thank you all for your contribution.

If you care about world-class optics, go with the SL2. The Leica APO lenses are phenomenal. Not to mention the 50 Summilux SL

Edited July 14, 2023 by Sohail