Decided on M11…how durable is the new black aluminum, or should I just stick with silver brass?

[jonoslack]

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22 minutes ago, DROPEDFOR said:

It’s not a fair thing to do. Probably because they sell more black than silver. If they had a black brass M11 you wouldn’t  even have this question. You would just buy the black brass version. 

now you’re forced to choose and maybe buy something you don’t really want. 

wait until the M11 comes in black brass and then decide. 

Personally, I like my Leicas Black and Brassed. 

one thing I never want to do is travel with a silver shiny Leica and a silver lens to boot. 

Also I don’t think the silver brass Leicas age well. I don’t like that look. 

Well, I agree with you - I'd rather have a brass top plate with old fashioned black paint. But the question was about how the new black paint works, and I'd say it's pretty good - much nicer than the old black chrome finish - hard wearing but taking a gentle patina after 2 years heavy use. . . . . 

[IMAGEPOWER]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb DROPEDFOR:

 

one thing I never want to do is travel with a silver shiny Leica and a silver lens to boot. 

 

Why not? My experience is the exact opposite.

I usually travel with a black M10-R, a black M10 Monochrom and a silver M11. When traveling with the M11 people usually ignore it. This is what I personally prefer, by the way. Some people, however, if they see me taking photos in a church for instance, approach me and ask me why  I still work with a film camera instead of a digital camera 😉 They try to convince me of the advantages of digital cameras until they are shown the screen on the M11. Then they usually want to get more information on the camera. Only very few even know Leica as a brand or are convinced that Leica went bankrupt long ago...

On the other hand when I use my M10-R or M10 Monochrom, the looks of people around me seeing me taking photos are much stealthier. Very similar to the situations when I use my Nikon z9 or D850 cameras with bigger lenses mounted...

Edited July 12, 2023 by IMAGEPOWER

[MyLeicaWorld]

On 7/12/2023 at 9:06 PM, jonoslack said:

Hi There

Mine arrived in July 2021, and it's been used daily since then, including a drop from 5ft on to a tarmac road which made one bright corner. Other than that the paintwork is fine, slightly shiny at the corners (nicely so), no visible scratches anywhere (apart from the bright corner) 

It's looking pretty good!

best

Jono

Jono, how was the rangefinder alignment after the fall? Did you have it adjusted or it was still fine?

[jonoslack]

13 hours ago, MyLeicaWorld said:

Jono, how was the rangefinder alignment after the fall? Did you have it adjusted or it was still fine?

Hi There - it was fine - everything worked as normal, and still does over a year after the fall

[dugby]

I have multiple silver Ms with black tape over the red dot.

I prefer to be stereotyped as “that guy with the vintage brandless silver camera, which is probably worth $50 from a pawnshop.”

[bkphoto]

7 hours ago, dugby said:

I have multiple silver Ms with black tape over the red dot.

I prefer to be stereotyped as “that guy with the vintage brandless silver camera, which is probably worth $50 from a pawnshop.”

To the lay person, all cameras are “vintage” since smartphones took over…I suspect 99% of people don’t know and don’t care when they see someone with a camera, let alone a rangefinder.

I’ve seen anecdotal posts on here that silver gets vintage comments but I would imagine black M’s do as well. 

[lct]

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18 minutes ago, bkphoto said:

I’ve seen anecdotal posts on here that silver gets vintage comments but I would imagine black M’s do as well.

Silver only here. A black camera is just another black camera. 

[bkphoto]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Silver only here. A black camera is just another black camera. 

I actually bought the silver M11 with a  silver/brass 50 lux. I loved it but personally it felt too flashy to be out and about with.

Both products had unrelated QC issues and had to be exchanged. I took the chance to swap to black M11/black lux. The weight savings was a game changer (21% lighter as a package). 

I love both finishes but ultimately I’m very happy with black!

[Ko.Fe.]

Wornout paint esthetics is personal. I'm not sure I want to see cheap aluminum on such expensive body.

[bkphoto]

47 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Wornout paint esthetics is personal. I'm not sure I want to see cheap aluminum on such expensive body.

I don’t know why “cheap” is a common talking point. No one knows the exact alloy Leica is using and what its cost may be. It’s some blend of aluminum and magnesium per the manual.

Aluminum is also not considered cheap with other higher end products, like a MacBook Pro or Pro Display XDR for example. 

Some may perceive a lighter product as the more premium one, if it’s the same strength while improving ergonomics at the same time…

 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Wornout paint esthetics is personal. I'm not sure I want to see cheap aluminum on such expensive body.

Leica prides itself on the quality of the material they use, the use of high-end aluminum, in the word from Olaf with a background of airplane engineer.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

1 hour ago, bkphoto said:

I don’t know why “cheap” is a common talking point. No one knows the exact alloy Leica is using and what its cost may be. It’s some blend of aluminum and magnesium per the manual.

Aluminum is also not considered cheap with other higher end products, like a MacBook Pro or Pro Display XDR for example. 

Some may perceive a lighter product as the more premium one, if it’s the same strength while improving ergonomics at the same time…

 

Using cheaper material for overpriced products a.k.a. Apple is not too valid example. IMO. The only more expensive part is formulating with shape. While material is still not expensive. 

[Ko.Fe.]

55 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

Leica prides itself on the quality of the material they use, the use of high-end aluminum, in the word from Olaf with a background of airplane engineer.

 

Should I upload my mechanical engineer diploma scan from aviation university?  I have certified translation in French. 

And courses list includes materials course as well.

The reason why aluminum is in use in aviation because it is lighter material, cheaper as well and stronger than aircraft plywood (which was in initial use) 

My M-E 220 has plate from similar material which was used traditionally (not cheap M4-P, M6 plates). It consists of ingredients which are more rare, expensive than aircraft grade aluminum.   

But as engineer who completed manufacturing economics course and worked in production   , I would like to know which aircraft grade aluminum Leica is using. For example 2024 grade is not really expensive.

So I downloaded Leica M11 official specifications, only to find this........:

Quote

Material

Black: full-metal housing made of magnesium and aluminum, leatherette cover

Silver: full-metal housing made of magnesium and brass, leatherette cover

 🙃

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Should I upload my mechanical engineer diploma scan from aviation university?  I have certified translation in French. 

And courses list includes materials course as well.

The reason why aluminum is in use in aviation because it is lighter material, cheaper as well and stronger than aircraft plywood (which was in initial use) 

My M-E 220 has plate from similar material which was used traditionally (not cheap M4-P, M6 plates). It consists of ingredients which are more rare, expensive than aircraft grade aluminum.   

But as engineer who completed manufacturing economics course and worked in production   , I would like to know which aircraft grade aluminum Leica is using. For example 2024 grade is not really expensive.

So I downloaded Leica M11 official specifications, only to find this........:

 🙃

That’s the housing. Not the top plate.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Should I upload my mechanical engineer diploma scan from aviation university?  I have certified translation in French. 

And courses list includes materials course as well.

The reason why aluminum is in use in aviation because it is lighter material, cheaper as well and stronger than aircraft plywood (which was in initial use) 

My M-E 220 has plate from similar material which was used traditionally (not cheap M4-P, M6 plates). It consists of ingredients which are more rare, expensive than aircraft grade aluminum.   

But as engineer who completed manufacturing economics course and worked in production   , I would like to know which aircraft grade aluminum Leica is using. For example 2024 grade is not really expensive.

So I downloaded Leica M11 official specifications, only to find this........:

 🙃

Why did you want vegan leather? LOL 

[bkphoto]

6 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Using cheaper material for overpriced products a.k.a. Apple is not too valid example. IMO. The only more expensive part is formulating with shape. While material is still not expensive. 

You’re kind of missing the point. Value is subjective. Consumers aren’t thinking about the raw materials. They shape their perception on the final product. 

Lightweight and as strong as brass…that’s premium as far as I’m concerned. 

Also Leica is 100% “overpriced”–like Apple, they probably have absurdly high profit margins. We’re willing to pay the premium (just like Apple consumers are) for various reasons not tied to the manufacturers unit costs. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by bkphoto

[Ko.Fe.]

24 minutes ago, bkphoto said:

You’re kind of missing the point. Value is subjective. Consumers aren’t thinking about the raw materials. They shape their perception on the final product. 

Lightweight and as strong as brass…that’s premium as far as I’m concerned. 

Also Leica is 100% “overpriced”–like Apple, they probably have absurdly high profit margins. We’re willing to pay the premium (just like Apple consumers are) for various reasons not tied to the manufacturers unit costs. 

Back to my point, worn out paint revealing cheap material is something I have experienced with dirt cheap by all means Cosina made Bessas. 

But if someone OK with it on M because it is less weight, it makes sense.  Except one real experience. My black M4-P has fog inside of VF glass on the plate. Because Leica put some evaporated material . It was made in Canada. But I used it in Canada decades later. All black cameras I used for not too long time are getting hot to touch during summer here. For my street work in summer I have to apply white masking tape on top plate of my M4-2. Today I was watching reports of hot weather in Europe. I assume sun does the same.

Would it be problem for tourists ? I don't know. 

Would black painted aluminum more sufficient as heat sink, don't know either.

I have no problem for street work with silver camera, been long enough on the street to realize what black isn't stealthy

 

 

[jeri]

I live in Israel, and as a Mediterranean country, the summer here is unforgiving. However, I find no difference between a Leica camera painted black and other cameras, especially in the heavy heat that prevails here in the months of July and August.

Weight on the other hand is a much more important factor for me. Therefore, the option of choosing between two cameras when one is heavier than the other, is not an option for me.

[Photoworks]

11 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Back to my point, worn out paint revealing cheap material is something I have experienced with dirt cheap by all means Cosina made Bessas. 

But if someone OK with it on M because it is less weight, it makes sense.  Except one real experience. My black M4-P has fog inside of VF glass on the plate. Because Leica put some evaporated material . It was made in Canada. But I used it in Canada decades later. All black cameras I used for not too long time are getting hot to touch during summer here. For my street work in summer I have to apply white masking tape on top plate of my M4-2. Today I was watching reports of hot weather in Europe. I assume sun does the same.

Would it be problem for tourists ? I don't know. 

Would black painted aluminum more sufficient as heat sink, don't know either.

I have no problem for street work with silver camera, been long enough on the street to realize what black isn't stealthy

 

 

Is aluminum or brass better as a heatsink?

Well, I used to have the M10-R that was always getting quite hot in the middle, sometimes I turned off the camera just to cool it down.
The screen protector was always coming off the glass screen from the heat. the camera was silver!

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[Ko.Fe.]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Is aluminum or brass better as a heatsink?

Well, I used to have the M10-R that was always getting quite hot in the middle, sometimes I turned off the camera just to cool it down.
The screen protector was always coming off the glass screen from the heat. the camera was silver!

Sounds like Samsung made. Such a serious design flow or particular faulty camera. I knew some camera might get sensor hot due to video, but for stills only it is unacceptable.