Leica M11 Firmware 1.6.2 on the way

[hmzimelka]

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43 minutes ago, lct said:

Well, you know, people needing 1/(2f), let alone 1/(4f), are not supposed to have hands as steady as a tripod and Leica, whose clients are not all of the first youth, knows it very well. I belong to this category, i must say, even if i'm proud of my steady hands, so i don't mind if the camera chooses a shutter speed slightly higher than that i have chosen as a maximum. Not only i don't mind to that at all but i think i would not update the firmware if Leica decided to follow your idea, sorry to tell it that bluntly there is nothing personal in my viewpoint 

What part of the above mentioned problem has an idea of mine that Leica needs implementing?

The feature set Leica has implemented in the camera, Namely AUTO ISO, is not working as advertised. Its that simple. Having a setting such as 1/(4f) should mean exactly that. It's like setting the ISO dial to 64  but the camera will just be on ISO 100. Because, who cares right! 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

 

[lct]

Let's say i'm more interested in imperfect truth than perfect accuracy  Truth is the M11 has no IBIS and that makes a neat difference to people used to high res cameras as yours truly. I can use, for instance, any 90mm lens handheld at 1/100s on my IBIS-based Sony but i need 1/250s, more or less, on the sans-IBIS M11. The latter allows me to choose 1/(2f)s as a maximum limit in auto iso mode, whereas i should choose 1/(4f)s if the camera behaved like a measurement instrument instead of a tool aimed at imperfect people like me

[ianforber]

9 hours ago, Krzysztof said:

Every shutter speed set in autoiso "shutter speed limit" is not set correctly. 500 becomes 640, 250 becomes 320, 125 becomes 160. This has nothing to do with over exposing anything, just a bug. Ehh I turn on camera to make sure I'm writing the correct numbers and this damn thing froze on me, had to take out the battery again. Well I had a good run, no freezing for a month...

I don’t mind this behaviour to be honest. If I want a specific speed, I’ll just set it and let the camera work out the ISO but I usually have the auto ISO setting at 1/250 and it uses 1/320. Fine by me. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Jawohl...

Guess I'm just a grumpy old guy. 

I don't really hold with any of this auto stuff: not ISO, not aperture priority shutter speed, none of it. At least, not for me. 

If I wanted those things I'd buy a camera designed around 'em, and then glory in all the variables, rolling in it, like a dog in a stinky patch of grass. What fun!

Spinning the shutter speed dial with the side of the index finger while watching the meter. Each click a measured proportion, just like the f-stop ring. It's way faster than the old antenatal, turning the dial on a Gossen and then transferring the reading to the dials.

Guess I'm just happiest with full manual. 

Not knocking all that auto stuff, but it's not for me. It just doesn't strike me as the simplification it's cracked up to be. Setting ranges intelligently takes understanding at least some of it anyway. If we're changing such things intelligently under differing circumstances we're already wrangling stuff manually anyway, just at arm's length. 

Nah. Just glad to have what I've already got, what I've had lo these many years. All the accumulated experience fits like a comfy old pair of favorite slippers. What's not to like?

But I hasten to add: no offend intended! I don't look down on anyone for wanting it the new way. It's kind of the current received orthodoxy, I guess. 

I'm merely bemused.

[marchyman]

15 hours ago, Krzysztof said:

Every shutter speed set in autoiso "shutter speed limit" is not set correctly. 500 becomes 640, 250 becomes 320, 125 becomes 160. This has nothing to do with over exposing anything, just a bug. Ehh I turn on camera to make sure I'm writing the correct numbers and this damn thing froze on me, had to take out the battery again. Well I had a good run, no freezing for a month...

The "shutter speed limit" is not be what you think.   It doesn't help that Leica describes it two ways.  Page 100 of the copy of the manual (pdf) that I have says:

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The first description -- "max. exposure time" -- is accurate.  It is the longest time that can be used before switching ISO.  1/640 is not longer than 1/500.   When set to 1/500 the camera will use 1/500 or faster.  If it has to use a time longer than 1/500, say 1/250, it will instead raise the ISO if possible.

The confusion is because Leica then talks about "fixed max. shutter speeds".   That is, I believe, incorrect.   The camera works by setting the "max. exposure time" to the fixed speed you select. That may not be what you want.

[DadDadDaddyo]

<facepalm>

[Krzysztof]

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Marchyman- it's exactly what I'm saying it is. I'm of course talking about "Shutter speed limit" if you set it to 1/500th it should be the slowest shutter picked by camera, for some reason is 640 and never 500. Same thing happens for every one you set. I'm glad it's not setting it below, that would be REALLY REALLY bad. It's just a bug, small one but annoying. This is how it works on M10, Q2,  Sony RIV AND EVERY POSSIBLE CAMERA I EVER USED. 
 

Dad - you better learn new tricks. It will help you to focus on the essentials. Composition, light and color. Not ISO.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Uh-huh.

Auto ISO lets you focus on the essentials, eh?

Just witness the last few messages...

[jakontil]

Luckily i never set anything auto with M digital since its birth while go out and shoot, only when it’s sitting on a tripod scanning my negative that i use auto shutter speed 😃😃😃

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, Krzysztof said:

I'm of course talking about "Shutter speed limit" if you set it to 1/500th it should be the slowest shutter picked by camera, for some reason is 640 and never 500. Same thing happens for every one you set.

Ok so choose auto ISO and use the shutter speed dial to whatever number you think is appropriate for the effect you want. 
Personally I prefer all manual settings but if im on the street and moving in and out of shadows and tracking people, I ain’t too proud to set a fixed shutter speed I can live with and have the camera match that with an appropriate iso. 

[Krzysztof]

40 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Ok so choose auto ISO and use the shutter speed dial to whatever number you think is appropriate for the effect you want. 
Personally I prefer all manual settings but if im on the street and moving in and out of shadows and tracking people, I ain’t too proud to set a fixed shutter speed I can live with and have the camera match that with an appropriate iso. 

Yeap that’s why I was doing for years, but with properly set auto iso, camera can save your highlights if for some reason it needs to jump to let’s say 1/1000. That’s a very well balanced system specially now when we have highlight weighted metering. It will always give you a proper exposure, so you can focus on composition and moment. And as you know everything happens instantly on the street and it’s gone forever  

[lct]

Auto iso works fine in manual mode too. If one wants a fixed shutter speed, suffice it to set it the same good old way with the shutter speed dial. The camera will then choose isos automatically w/o over-riding the speed selected manually. Perfect for me, Leica won't change anything hopefully, at least as long as IBIS is not implemented.

[blaaberkat]

Most of all, I would hope for an updated white balance to get rid of the purple tint. I’m really having a hard time with the colors in general with the M11.  If we could get the colors from the Q3 I would be happy…

[LBJ2]

1 hour ago, blaaberkat said:

Most of all, I would hope for an updated white balance to get rid of the purple tint. I’m really having a hard time with the colors in general with the M11.  If we could get the colors from the Q3 I would be happy…

I wouldn't expect more than very minor update from v. 1.6.1 to v. 1.6.2  But we shall see when it shows up.

Are you referring to so-called purple fringing caused by some lenses or what some say they sometimes see a slight magenta color cast in some M11 images in LightRoom? 

Edited July 2, 2023 by LBJ2

[blaaberkat]

53 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

I wouldn't expect more than very minor update from v. 1.6.1 to v. 1.6.2  But we shall see when it shows up.

Are you referring to so-called purple fringing caused by some lenses or what some say they sometimes see a slight magenta color cast in some M11 images in LightRoom? 

Yes, Im talking the Purple/Magenta color cast, not the fringing.

I don't own the Q3 yet, I'm on the waiting list. To me, I't seems the colours from the Q3 are more .....M10 like maybe ....atleast the purple/magenta is gone.

I find it really difficult to get it right in Lightroom ... maybe I should look to Capture One again and see if that's better.

oh yea with grey card calibration the magenta is gone, but that's very cumbersome. That's why I had hoped for it in an update, but I guess you're right, If, then it'll be in a big update. Thanks

[LBJ2]

2 hours ago, blaaberkat said:

Yes, Im talking the Purple/Magenta color cast, not the fringing.

I don't own the Q3 yet, I'm on the waiting list. To me, I't seems the colours from the Q3 are more .....M10 like maybe ....atleast the purple/magenta is gone.

I find it really difficult to get it right in Lightroom ... maybe I should look to Capture One again and see if that's better.

oh yea with grey card calibration the magenta is gone, but that's very cumbersome. That's why I had hoped for it in an update, but I guess you're right, If, then it'll be in a big update. Thanks

For M11 magenta color cast, you can try sliding the TINT slider lower in the LR Develop model . But not too much. I rarely see the magenta color cast with M11 DNG files but when I do this simple step in LR can help. 

I don't know about C1 but DXO's PhotoLab 6 M11 profile doesn't seem to have the magenta color cast that Adobe profile does. But if you have access to C1 do give M11 DNG files a try as there are profile differences with each of these apps. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by LBJ2

[Kwesi]

You are not going to see a color profile change in a minor firmware update. BUT you might get it it with the upcoming M11-P. I’m hoping that camera gains the Maestro IV processor from the Q3

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Kwesi said:

You are not going to see a color profile change in a minor firmware update. BUT you might get it it with the upcoming M11-P. I’m hoping that camera gains the Maestro IV processor from the Q3

I don't see any benefit in that!

the M11 does not do 8K video

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I don't see any benefit in that!

the M11 does not do 8K video

I hear you. I was hoping for even better processing power for highlight weighted and matrix metering algorithms and a return to dust detection. 

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[Photoworks]

40 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I hear you. I was hoping for even better processing power for highlight weighted and matrix metering algorithms and a return to dust detection. 

the Maestro III is in the SL2 and it is very good. a faster processor often means more power requirement.

If you want metering to improve, is best to ask for improvements in the firmware.

I never used the dust detection option in my other camera, maybe that is why most people don't miss it, but you can ask for it to be added. in the meantime, C1P has this option in the new version.