The SL2 is all the camera you need ...

[huwm]

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I'm happy to have  gone from SL2 to SL2-S and only ever give it a 2nd thought when spending too much time here 🤔

For my enthusiastic amateur, mindfulness promoting purposes that is, am in no way a pro.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Stuart Richardson]

I think the benefit of the APO lenses is not just their sharpness, but also their freedom from any sort of aberrations. So no fringing or LOCA, very limited vignetting, good flare resistance etc. They will elevate your SL2-S and whatever other L camera you choose to use in the future. You also still have the multishot mode in the SL2S and they are likely to help you there.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[goodbokeh]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:17 PM, jaapv said:

It has been tested extensively by a number of members here. Believe me. Mechanical shutter will produce soft images on that lens at any shutter speed   Shutter shock is on a higher frequency which does not register with OIS 

I was able to test the Sigma 150-600 on my new Silver SL2 today. Here are a series of 5 photos out of the test sequence that sums things up. All photos were tripod mounted at 400mm, f/6.1, ois/ibis off, 12 second self timer, manual focus on the metal fence. Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Neutral profile, standard sharpening only.

Photo 1: Shows the full frame. The following 4 photos are enlarged to 160% to match this sites 2048 horizontal pixel maximum.

Photo 2: 1/250 sec mechanical shutter;

Photo 3: 1/250 sec electronic shutter;

Photo 4: 1/2000 sec mechanical shutter;

Photo 5: 1/2000 sec electronic shutter.

I'm not seeing the soft images reported here by other members. There is a slight advantage for the electronic shutter at 1/250 sec and I would expect that. However, given the known motion artifacts present with electronic shutter I would use it only for static subjects with this lens.

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Edited July 19, 2023 by goodbokeh
Typo

[jaapv]

All members that report this are using the lens handheld with OIS on. 

[goodbokeh]

48 minutes ago, jaapv said:

All members that report this are using the lens handheld with OIS on. 

Handheld results introduce shaky humans. Maybe members stabilization worked well, maybe not. But using OIS introduces a independent variable that makes accurately comparing the two shutter modes obscured. My test did not involve a shaky human (me) or stabilization (turned off). Just the 150-600 and the SL2's two shutter modes were compared head on head. 

[jaapv]

Yes. But it does not match the use case. Shaky humans take the photographs. The empirical evidence by most if not all wildlife and bird photographers on this forum show that switching to ES in the field produces sharper images. 

I do not doubt that screwing the lens down and switching off OIS will yield different results. I would expect nothing else. 
The only thing that has been said is: if you are unhappy with the sharpness try ES. And real life shows this to be the case. 
You  are right about the distortion by ES. However, in wildlife photography this is only a concern with extremely fast moving things, like a the wings of a hovering bird. 

 

 

[LBJ2]

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10 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

I was able to test the Sigma 150-600 on my new Silver SL2 today. Here are a series of 5 photos out of the test sequence that sums things up. All photos were tripod mounted at 400mm, f/6.1, ois/ibis off, 12 second self timer, manual focus on the metal fence. Adobe Camera Raw, Adobe Neutral profile, standard sharpening only.

Photo 1: Shows the full frame. The following 4 photos are enlarged to 160% to match this sites 2048 horizontal pixel maximum.

Photo 2: 1/250 sec mechanical shutter;

Photo 3: 1/250 sec electronic shutter;

Photo 4: 1/2000 sec mechanical shutter;

Photo 5: 1/2000 sec electronic shutter.

I'm not seeing the soft images reported here by other members. There is a slight advantage for the electronic shutter at 1/250 sec and I would expect that. However, given the known motion artifacts present with electronic shutter I would use it only for static subjects with this lens.

Thank you for putting in the time and effort to carry out this test, prepare the photos and post the results 👍🏼

[hdmesa]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:42 AM, goodbokeh said:

Since the Reid Reviews revelation of the Q3 cooking the Raw files in-camera for noise reduction, I wonder if that practice will be carried over to the SL3? I understand other camera companies (Canon) do that now. That's just one of the reasons I don't considered Photons to Photos graphs a solid reference. That's also based on my own experience with past cameras and the recent real life performance of my Q2 up against my Sony A1 in the Caves of Arta showing it performed similarly. But I'm not a high ISO fan, I lid the ISO on all my cameras to 1600, 3200 in extreme circumstances like in Arta.

If it weren't for Photons to Photos, we wouldn't have known that Canon was baking in noise reduction at low ISOs on the R5 to begin with. The P2P DR charts show if the camera is applying noise reduction and at what ISOs.

[cj3209]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:46 PM, hdokgst said:

Today I went out shooting with the SL2 and and the VE90/280. It’s a combination where you don‘t talk about a few grams less or more. The lens is unique and the SL2 is probably the only camera which can take full advantage of this lens. When I use the SL2 with the VE90/280 handling and balance feel perfect to me and the SL2 gives me the capabilities to utilize the VE90/280, where I want focus (and metering) on the spot. The focal length is out of reach of my M10R. With a 35 Cron, the M is my companion for everyday. But with the the VE90/280, the SL2 is “all I need” (I’m sometimes torn between two lovers)!       

I would think you would need the SL battery grip with this combo?

[Jeff S]

11 hours ago, cj3209 said:

I would think you would need the SL battery grip with this combo?

Balances perfectly for me on stock SL2, especially given internal zooming.

Jeff

[hdokgst]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb cj3209:

I would think you would need the SL battery grip with this combo?

I don‘t have the grip and do not miss it. I need both hands, but I can easily handle the combo in both landscape and portrait orientation. And due to the OIS I can even use it in available light situations without a tripod. I bought the combo as a long range extension to my M-camera and was surprised how easy it was to use. 

[Jeff S]

And IBIS, with SL2.

Jeff

[John Smith]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:42 AM, goodbokeh said:

Since the Reid Reviews revelation of the Q3 cooking the Raw files in-camera for noise reduction, I wonder if that practice will be carried over to the SL3? I understand other camera companies (Canon) do that now. That's just one of the reasons I don't considered Photons to Photos graphs a solid reference. That's also based on my own experience with past cameras and the recent real life performance of my Q2 up against my Sony A1 in the Caves of Arta showing it performed similarly. But I'm not a high ISO fan, I lid the ISO on all my cameras to 1600, 3200 in extreme circumstances like in Arta.

Which Reid review says the Q3's files have noise reduction baked in? I'd like to read it.

[goodbokeh]

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

Which Reid review says the Q3's files have noise reduction baked in? I'd like to read it.

John refer to Report #3 Studio Tests, page 6, paragraph 3.

Edited July 27, 2023 by goodbokeh
Typo

[John Smith]

40 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

John refer to Report #3 Studio Tests, page 6, paragraph 3.

Thanks. I’m surprised Leica has implemented in-camera noise reduction. I guess it has to keep up with the market.

Edited July 28, 2023 by John Smith

[goodbokeh]

9 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Thanks. I’m surprised Leica has implemented in-camera noise reduction. I guess it has to keep up with the market.

I've read from multiple sources over time that Canon also does RAW NR cooking. I'm not sure about my high MP Sonys (A1 & A7R5) and Fuji (100S) but their Raws aren't much cleaner (1/2 stop approximately) in high ISOs than my Q2 and now SL2 that I can see. I use Adobe Camera Raw/Photoshop.

There is so much PR juicing nowadays there is only a handful of sources I have confidence in. ReidReviews is one of them. I remember a few years ago when BSI sensors were first introduced they were described as beneficial for small cell phone sensors but of little consequence for full frame. Look how that spin has changed.

PDAF has many speed and AI advantages like for sports and Bird/Animal AF. But no one ever mentions the taboo subject of PDAF pixel grid flare. Yet anytime a person with a PDAF sensor camera shoots in strong back light, given the wrong angle and lens, it can happen. Sadly, sometimes its not apparent until back home on the computer. In my case way back home on the other side of North America.

In the photo below look at the left upper quadrant, this is with the GFX100S and GF 30mm Fuji lens. This happens with other PDAF cameras and lenses also. BTW, the 100S 102 MP Sony sensor is in the same family that the SL3's 60 MP sensor will belong to.

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[John Smith]

12 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

I've read from multiple sources over time that Canon also does RAW NR cooking. I'm not sure about my high MP Sonys (A1 & A7R5) and Fuji (100S) but their Raws aren't much cleaner (1/2 stop approximately) in high ISOs than my Q2 and now SL2 that I can see. I use Adobe Camera Raw/Photoshop.

There is so much PR juicing nowadays there is only a handful of sources I have confidence in. ReidReviews is one of them. I remember a few years ago when BSI sensors were first introduced they were described as beneficial for small cell phone sensors but of little consequence for full frame. Look how that spin has changed.

PDAF has many speed and AI advantages like for sports and Bird/Animal AF. But no one ever mentions the taboo subject of PDAF pixel grid flare. Yet anytime a person with a PDAF sensor camera shoots in strong back light, given the wrong angle and lens, it can happen. Sadly, sometimes its not apparent until back home on the computer. In my case way back home on the other side of North America.

In the photo below look at the left upper quadrant, this is with the GFX100S and GF 30mm Fuji lens. This happens with other PDAF cameras and lenses also. BTW, the 100S 102 MP Sony sensor is in the same family that the SL3's 60 MP sensor will belong to.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The closer we get to an SL3, the more I think I'll be sticking with the SL2.

[Sohail]

3 hours ago, John Smith said:

The closer we get to an SL3, the more I think I'll be sticking with the SL2.

There's not much to do to the SL2. It's a great camera. Give us some great lenses. A new Summilux perhaps? Maybe even a Noctilux. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[trickness]

24 minutes ago, Sohail said:

There's not much to do to the SL2. It's a great camera. Give us some great lenses. A new Summilux perhaps? Maybe even a Noctilux. 

I don't think they'll ever make an L mount Nocti - can you imagine how much of a pig an autofocus Nocti would be? The 75 M Nocti is heavy enough as it is.

The big problem with the SL is that they need it to be more mainstream than the M to be a real success, which means making something the larger (non-Leica faithful) camera market will find appealing. The only real benefit of this is that the price has to be somewhat competitive with stuff from Sony etc. The M doesn't have to consider any of this because it is its own thing.

Thats why we're probably going to get a tilt screen and lots more megapixels on the SL3, neither of which appeal to me at all. That tilt screen on the Q3 makes the back of the camera ugly AF. 

Only things I'd really like to see improved on the SL at this point are improvements with higher ISO noise (and I mean starting at 1600, hopefully BSI sensor will improve this) - also improved management of eye recognition (selfish reasons here, I'm an eyeglass wearer), and perhaps a slightly reduced weight. 

I worry about increased megapixels because it seems the more resolution we get, the less realistic the way edges are conveyed. I wish sensor development would take a look at the strengths of how film handles edges, falloff and highlights, and improve in those areas. But perhaps that's down to my individual taste. Sharpness and resolution are two things  I never think of when I take pictures.

Edited July 28, 2023 by trickness

[Simone_DF]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:16 AM, goodbokeh said:

PDAF has many speed and AI advantages like for sports and Bird/Animal AF. But no one ever mentions the taboo subject of PDAF pixel grid flare. Yet anytime a person with a PDAF sensor camera shoots in strong back light, given the wrong angle and lens, it can happen.

It can happen with non-PDAF cameras too. I could reproduce the issue with a Q2. Other users had the same problem too