The SL2 is all the camera you need ...

[Sohail]

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I've just been out shooting with my SL2, and it's easy to forget how amazing a camera it is. For now and the next few years, I can't see any reason to upgrade. The SL2 is all the camera I need and more. With all the hype about what the new SL3 is going to include, I can't see it being markedly better than what the SL2 already gives us. Its only real shortcoming is noise at higher ISOs. Topaz does a really terrible job but the latest version of Adobe Camera RAW bridges the gap very nicely. What matters instead and has always mattered are the lenses. 

The following reasons are not enough to persuade me to upgrade to an SL3:

1. More pixels? 47MP is ample for my purposes (street, reportage, travel)
2. Better low-light handling? It has to be significantly better. 2/3 stops more. The difference in noise handling from Q2 to Q3 is not enough to warrant an upgrade.
3. Tiltable screen? Not very practical. Flippable makes more sense but too fiddly for a big camera.
4. Faster AF? I'm a slow photographer. I'm OK.
5. Better battery handling? I'm not complaining about battery life on the SL2.

I'll skip and wait for the SL4!

Thoughts?

[Ko.Fe.]

Staying strictly within 

Quote

The SL2 is all the camera you need

I have to say - I can't agree. Way too heavy as the only camera for me. But SL2-S  is best replacement of FF DSLR I could wish for.

 

It is all individual. We have thread here where Hasselblad rig is called as light and compact.  

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[Chaemono]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb Sohail:

I've just been out shooting with my SL2, and it's easy to forget how amazing a camera it is. For now and the next few years, I can't see any reason to upgrade. The SL2 is all the camera I need and more. With all the hype about what the new SL3 is going to include, I can't see it being markedly better than what the SL2 already gives us. Its only real shortcoming is noise at higher ISOs. Topaz does a really terrible job but the latest version of Adobe Camera RAW bridges the gap very nicely. What matters instead and has always mattered are the lenses. 

The following reasons are not enough to persuade me to upgrade to an SL3:

1. More pixels? 47MP is ample for my purposes (street, reportage, travel)
2. Better low-light handling? It has to be significantly better. 2/3 stops more. The difference in noise handling from Q2 to Q3 is not enough to warrant an upgrade.
3. Tiltable screen? Not very practical. Flippable makes more sense but too fiddly for a big camera.
4. Faster AF? I'm a slow photographer. I'm OK.
5. Better battery handling? I'm not complaining about battery life on the SL2.

I'll skip and wait for the SL4!

Thoughts?

I partly agree. You forgot best base ISO after Z7 in mirrorless FF and no on-sensor PDAF pixels. I sold it but will probably never sell the SL2-S because I like the colors it produces as a starting point and the high ISO performance. AF is fast enough for me. I have no need for an SL3 (even better base ISO than Z7 and SL2 would be the only reason to get it). I somehow have a feeling that on-sensor PDAF pixels affect pushed shadows noise. I have an S5 II and an SL2-S to check that hypothesis but haven’t had time, yet. 24 MP BSI sensor in an M11-S is what I’m hoping for. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I am with you. I find very little to criticize about it. I think an SL3 will not be too interesting to me. An S4 might be, but not if it is 20k. Meanwhile the SL2 does everything I need in a digital system camera. 

[jplomley]

If they fix the mechanical shutter vibration in the SL2 that IBIS cannot correct for, I would grab an SL3. Will see how effectively damped it is and at what shutter speeds that damping proves effective.

[goodbokeh]

1 hour ago, Sohail said:

I've just been out shooting with my SL2, and it's easy to forget how amazing a camera it is. For now and the next few years, I can't see any reason to upgrade. The SL2 is all the camera I need and more. With all the hype about what the new SL3 is going to include, I can't see it being markedly better than what the SL2 already gives us. Its only real shortcoming is noise at higher ISOs. Topaz does a really terrible job but the latest version of Adobe Camera RAW bridges the gap very nicely. What matters instead and has always mattered are the lenses. 

The following reasons are not enough to persuade me to upgrade to an SL3:

1. More pixels? 47MP is ample for my purposes (street, reportage, travel)
2. Better low-light handling? It has to be significantly better. 2/3 stops more. The difference in noise handling from Q2 to Q3 is not enough to warrant an upgrade.
3. Tiltable screen? Not very practical. Flippable makes more sense but too fiddly for a big camera.
4. Faster AF? I'm a slow photographer. I'm OK.
5. Better battery handling? I'm not complaining about battery life on the SL2.

I'll skip and wait for the SL4!

Thoughts?

I know many are busting down the doors for next year's SL3 with its 60 MP BSI PDAF sensor. I've used that Sony sensor for a couple years now in the guise of Sony and Fuji cameras. They offer a somewhat higher ISO performance (1/2-3/4 stop EV) with concomitant DR, and accurate Eye AF...But those PDAF MP sensors give back a look which can at times be unpleasant, it's hard to describe but I know it when I see it...In real life I limit those camera's ISO to 1600 for best quality just as I do for my Q2 and it's 47MP sensor which the SL2 shares.

There are only 1000 Silver Leica SL2 bodies being made worldwide and so right now I have the Silver SL2 & 24-70/2.8 kit pre-ordered at B&H. It's just what I've been looking for to compliment my M bodies & lenses and Q2.

The Silver SL2 is a beautiful presentation that reminds me of my youth and the film cameras I used with all the golden memories, slides (K-64) and prints from back in the 70's & 80's. Frankly, I want something more graceful in appearance and image production for my mirrorless inventory and the 47 MP FSI CDAF Silver Leica SL2 will be that.

[goodbokeh]

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19 minutes ago, jplomley said:

If they fix the mechanical shutter vibration in the SL2 that IBIS cannot correct for, I would grab an SL3. Will see how effectively damped it is and at what shutter speeds that damping proves effective.

I'm aware of reported shutter shock effects (real and imagined) and the benefit of EFCS, which the SL2 lacks. Many on this forum and also Fred Miranda believe it's de minimis with the SL2's refined mechanical shutter. I'll be testing my SL2 when it arrives for that. There is always the fall back of Electronic Shutter, with it's known shortcomings. Many use that mode with their M11's which also lacks EFCS.

As background, I did careful tests on my M10-R & M with various M lenses up to 135mm in Live View Mode. That mode triggers the double action first curtain mechanical shutter on my M10s, which the SL2 & M11 always use. I only found the smallest amount of mechanical shutter shock discernible @ 1/180 sec. (300% view) so that is a hopeful sign to me.  

[JohnathanLovm]

Even though the 601 alone is satisfied my needs. I do looking forward to see SL3 as one of my next upgrade paths. 

[helged]

14 hours ago, Chaemono said:

I partly agree. You forgot best base ISO after Z7 in mirrorless FF and no on-sensor PDAF pixels. I sold it but will probably never sell the SL2-S because I like the colors it produces as a starting point and the high ISO performance. AF is fast enough for me. I have no need for an SL3 (even better base ISO than Z7 and SL2 would be the only reason to get it). I somehow have a feeling that on-sensor PDAF pixels affect pushed shadows noise. I have an S5 II and an SL2-S to check that hypothesis but haven’t had time, yet. 24 MP BSI sensor in an M11-S is what I’m hoping for. 

Looking forward to the SL2-S vs S5II comparison!

[robb]

SL2 is def great for about 90% of what I mainly shoot as is.  That’s why I have two of those and two sl2-s.  But I’ll welcome any improvements in specs especially continuous AF.  If the Sl3 allows me to just have two bodies vs four for all duties then that would be a big win.

Robb

Edited June 21, 2023 by robb

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb helged:

Looking forward to the SL2-S vs S5II comparison!

I have the first two weeks in July off and should have time to do the comparisons.

[trickness]

18 hours ago, Sohail said:

I've just been out shooting with my SL2, and it's easy to forget how amazing a camera it is. For now and the next few years, I can't see any reason to upgrade. The SL2 is all the camera I need and more. With all the hype about what the new SL3 is going to include, I can't see it being markedly better than what the SL2 already gives us. Its only real shortcoming is noise at higher ISOs. Topaz does a really terrible job but the latest version of Adobe Camera RAW bridges the gap very nicely. What matters instead and has always mattered are the lenses. 

The following reasons are not enough to persuade me to upgrade to an SL3:

1. More pixels? 47MP is ample for my purposes (street, reportage, travel)
2. Better low-light handling? It has to be significantly better. 2/3 stops more. The difference in noise handling from Q2 to Q3 is not enough to warrant an upgrade.
3. Tiltable screen? Not very practical. Flippable makes more sense but too fiddly for a big camera.
4. Faster AF? I'm a slow photographer. I'm OK.
5. Better battery handling? I'm not complaining about battery life on the SL2.

I'll skip and wait for the SL4!

Thoughts?

100% agree. SL2 Files are already huge & very croppable, camera NEVER freezes, tilt screens are trash, and I use adapted  M lenses mostly. Plus SL2 will be available used for what, $3500 when the SL3 comes out, maybe less?

SL2 is my favorite camera ever, hands down.

[goodbokeh]

7 hours ago, robb said:

SL2 is def great for about 90% of what I mainly shoot as is.  That’s why I have two of those and two sl2-s.  But I’ll welcome any improvements in specs especially continuous AF.  If the Sl3 allows me to just have two bodies vs four for all duties then that would be a big win.

Robb

Robb, my experience with the Sony 60 MP generation sensor on my Sony A7R5 & Fuji 100S, compared to my wife's 24 MP Lumix S5, is that the SL3 will not match the Raw high ISO performance of your SL2-S. On both my cameras I prefer not to go above 1600 ISO unless I am really pushed and then 3200 is it for me. The S5 is fine up to 6400 for my tastes, YMMV. 

[RexGig0]

Not yet owning any SL-series camera, I do not know enough to offer much comment, but do appreciate the discussion. I think that an SL2 might well be my best option for using using my favored M-mount lenses to shoot color images with a sensor that has more than 24MP. Much of this idea is derived from my experience shooting a Canon 5Ds R and a Nikon D850, ~50MP and ~47MP, respectively. 

[tangosix]

The improvements above the first generation and the sl2 were significant.  Especially in pro work for magazines and my specialty - food.  

I expect a similar improvement in image quality with the SL3.   I am using the sl2s only on purpose now waiting for the sl3 to drop. 

Some of us are not as talented as Sohail and need every extra improvement to produce work at the highest level. 

 

[panoreserve]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb jplomley:

If they fix the mechanical shutter vibration in the SL2 that IBIS cannot correct for, I would grab an SL3. Will see how effectively damped it is and at what shutter speeds that damping proves effective.

It is very good that you "remember" this weakness of the SL2. For exactly this reason I have been using the SL2 exclusively with the electronic shutter for 3 years...Those responsible in Wetzlar, to whom I sent meaningful picture examples, were allegedly unable to reproduce the "error"...😕

[Sohail]

1 hour ago, tangosix said:

The improvements above the first generation and the sl2 were significant.  Especially in pro work for magazines and my specialty - food.  

I expect a similar improvement in image quality with the SL3.   I am using the sl2s only on purpose now waiting for the sl3 to drop. 

Some of us are not as talented as Sohail and need every extra improvement to produce work at the highest level. 

 

You're very kind.  For me, it's all about the lenses. That's where it's at. 

[robb]

5 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Robb, my experience with the Sony 60 MP generation sensor on my Sony A7R5 & Fuji 100S, compared to my wife's 24 MP Lumix S5, is that the SL3 will not match the Raw high ISO performance of your SL2-S. On both my cameras I prefer not to go above 1600 ISO unless I am really pushed and then 3200 is it for me. The S5 is fine up to 6400 for my tastes, YMMV. 

Maximum iso I ever go is 1600 on the sl2.  I’m not a fan at all above this.

max on the sl2-s is 6400+  basically I think it can do just about any iso well…. 

Robb

[cboy]

Whatever tech is going to be in the SL3 and put that in a SL2s body is probably ideal for all round general purpose. horses for courses 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LeicaR10]

Sohail,  Your comments and points in your OP Post #1 are spot on.  The SL2 delivers the photographs that I "see" in spades.  I have an SL2-S for use with M lenses and needing low light performance.  We share many of the same ideas of what is needed and not needed.  For me, more MPs, flip screen and other items are not necessary for my genre of photography.  I believe too many photographers are lead down a path of more MPs by clever marketing in general and at the end of the day, they realize the latest and "most MPs" do not improve their photographs.  IF, photographers spent more time on creating photographs with meaningful "content" that includes better composition, light, shadow, texture and feeling they would find far more joy with their photography.  Your superb photographs show these attributes and clearly separate what most create as mere photos to your visionary photography being true masterpiece photographs.  Others will have their opinions about needing/wanting new and better camera/lens XY and Z and that is what keeps camera manufacturers in business.  For me, I prefer to concentrate on creating photographs with the tools that work now rather than waiting and wishing for the next "better" or often as we say here in Australia are really in the "Never, never".  r/ Mark