Willuiijf Posted June 20, 2023 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear Leica fans / users, after a night in the back of my car in Spain, I took my M10R to make some foto’s….. o reaction at the camera, so I was trying to replace the lithium battery, opend the bottem plate and was flabbergasted to find out that a stinking white substance came out of my M camera…. i was shocked because i didn't expect that chemical wet mess.. contacted the dealer and sent the camera and the tri elmar lens that was also included! after a month of waiting the announcement from Leica that there was electrolysis and that water had entered the camera……. I was shocked again because my car roof is closed and there was / is no water in my car… according to Leica even salt water so according to Leica my own fault and no guarantee, shocked again!!! now a lawsuit against the customer-unfriendly and arrogant Leica of 2023. What a difference with the 90s. I will inform my Leica colleagues and keep you informed of the lawsuit, regards Wil Luiijf a former policeman investigation of illegal trade in endangered animal and plant species Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/378548-leica-m10r-body-%E2%80%98water%E2%80%99-problems/?do=findComment&comment=4797536'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2023 Posted June 20, 2023 Hi Willuiijf, Take a look here Leica m10R Body, ‘water’ problems ???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 20, 2023 Share #2 Posted June 20, 2023 Moet likely icondensation in salty air. No guarantee and the camera is total loss. Your only option is the insurance. You don’t stand a chance in a lawsuit. Res ipse loquitur. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willuiijf Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted June 20, 2023 HI JAAP. Salty air??? In the north of Spain (Zamora) 350 km for the coast in a car??? We will see 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2023 Share #4 Posted June 20, 2023 Just a guess as to the cause. This is very clearly corrosion due to an outside agent. There is no water container in the M. Corrosion is explicitly excluded in the warranty. You were lucky that the battery did not short and catch fire. Maybe the battery leaked severely? That can only happen to a damaged battery. Again no guarantee. We had a similar case years ago with an M8. The owner was very upset and blamed Leica. Got him nowhere. In the end the insurance paid up. I do hope you reach a similar outcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 20, 2023 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2023 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Willuiijf: now a lawsuit against the customer-unfriendly and arrogant Leica of 2023. Save the money and time involved in a lawsuit. Believe me, I am an attorney (and engineer), and your chances of success on this one are very, very dim. vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv: Maybe the battery leaked severely? That's what I thought when I saw the photos of the camera. Should be relatively easy to determine whether that messy substance originates from inside the battery. But even then, the amount of damage is surprising and must have involved a substantial amount of liquid, considering that the liquid even reached the viewfinder's interior and the front part of the lens, both of which are as remote from the battery as it gets. vor 1 Stunde schrieb Willuiijf: In the north of Spain (Zamora) 350 km for the coast in a car??? Are you entirely sure that the camera was not exposed to some kind of liquid, maybe without you knowing it? Judging by the way the way the camera looks it seems almost impossible that even a leaking battery could have caused this kind of damage. I feel very sorry for you, but before starting a lawsuit, you should try to think laterally first, with a view to determine possible (and may be even impossible) causes that could have led to this result. Certainly no condensation issue though. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenedp Posted June 20, 2023 Share #6 Posted June 20, 2023 I’ve never seen anything like this. What is difficult to understand, if it’s a battery leak, is the affectation of the lens and rhe upper part of the exterior. If you want to have any chances of winning, you should get an evaluation from a certified expert that can testify that this is due to an internal leak and not to an external agent or exposing the camera to an inadequate environment. Zamora’s nights can be pretty cold even in midsummer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2023 Share #7 Posted June 20, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Something seems ‘fishy’ about all of this. For example, wouldn’t one see that the viewfinder etc was fouled before removing the baseplate? And no pics of the supposedly leaky battery. And first post on the forum? I hate to cast aspersions on anyone’s honesty, but this camera and lens appears to have been dunked in saltwater (seen it before) and I wonder if the o.p. is posting on here to try and create some plausibility that it wasn’t their fault. If I were them, I wouldn’t waste $ on lawyers, but just suck it up and buy a new camera. Leica will not be swayed on this. Any sign of water damage or the likes of and the warranty is null and void. Always has been and always will be. It can make for an expensive trip to the beach if one is careless. And to everyone: do not leave your camera gear in a car, overnight or during the day, even hidden. I wonder if the o.p. would be trying to sue Leica if it had just been stolen instead… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willuiijf Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share #8 Posted June 20, 2023 My dear friends, The batterij seems to be ok! No salt water, the camera strap is ok no signs of salt water, the visoflex witch was on the camera, also no problems, the camera was shit, but in may paniek I knocked out the camera on a towel..... not smart but what do you want, panic!!! 10.000+ euro's gone .......... We will see, I am working 40+ years with all kinds of Leica R and M camera's also in the same area, also other brands like Nikon and Canon whiteout any problem...... So we will see what's happening! I am very disappointed by the reaction of Leica Germany, a multimillion company, waiting 3 months to answer questions, and after 12+ phone calls of my dealer, Lisse Leica camera store they finally return the camera, the lens and the battery to me. I can assure you, this was my last Leica M!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willuiijf Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share #9 Posted June 20, 2023 HI JAAP. Salty air??? In the north of Spain (Zamora) 350 km for the coast in a car??? We will see 🙂 2 minutes ago, Willuiijf said: My dear friends, The batterij seems to be ok! No salt water, the camera strap is ok no signs of salt water, the visoflex witch was on the camera, also no problems, the camera was shit, but in may paniek I knocked out the camera on a towel..... not smart but what do you want, panic!!! 10.000+ euro's gone .......... We will see, I am working 40+ years with all kinds of Leica R and M camera's also in the same area, also other brands like Nikon and Canon whiteout any problem...... So we will see what's happening! I am very disappointed by the reaction of Leica Germany, a multimillion company, waiting 3 months to answer questions, and after 12+ phone calls of my dealer, Lisse Leica camera store they finally return the camera, the lens and the battery to me. I can assure you, this was my last Leica M!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willuiijf Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) and my dear friend charlesphoto99, what a suggestions, CIA? FBI? I do not like your suggestive suggestions!!! I could claim my camera on the insurance but why should I ??? Is it not normal to leave your camera in the car? Not happy with that!!! If nothing happend to my camara I was hot on this forum!!!, other things to do, so Edited June 20, 2023 by jaapv Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 20, 2023 Share #11 Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Firstly, I don't think that this is salt water corrosion because I've seen what happens when salt water gets into a camera and the salt doesn't dry out like this, it crystallises to some extent at least and remains damp except in vry dry areas, so I'm dubious that its salt, and especially as it was described in the OP as 'stinking'. Secondly, the damage is extensive and to me it looks as though both the camera and lens have been affected internally and externally which suggests that they have been exposed to a large volume of liquid somehow. The first thing that needs to be sorted out is what the white substance actually is. Without this information it won't be possible to say what has caused the problem and this is essential to know in order to enable a decision to be made as to what to do next. Edited June 20, 2023 by pgk 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 20, 2023 Share #12 Posted June 20, 2023 Post a photograph of the battery, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 20, 2023 Share #13 Posted June 20, 2023 This is what insurance is for. Mine would cover full replacement, without any hassle. But I understand that policies vary by location, company and individual circumstances. Jeff 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2023 Share #14 Posted June 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, Willuiijf said: and my dear friend charlesphoto99, what a suggestions, CIA? FBI? I do not like your suggestive suggestions!!! I could claim my camera on the insurance but why should I ??? Is it not normal to leave your camera in the car? Typical (conservative) American suggestions amigo! Not happy with that!!! If nothing happend to my camara I was hot on this forum!!!, other things to do, so Nope. If this wasn’t your first post, you’d realize there are posts on here all the time about cameras being stolen out of cars - often in broad daylight, and more often than not in Europe. I’ve had friends lose their entire gear because the left the bag in the trunk or ‘hidden’ in the hatchback part. And you’ll find that I’m not ‘conservative’ at all (politically the exact opposite), just smart and cautious, but perhaps that comes from being a pro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leupio Posted June 20, 2023 Share #15 Posted June 20, 2023 Was the car with the camera left unattended somewhere for a long time? To me it looks like someone tried to smuggle heroin or cocaine on camera and somehow things went wrong. Does consumption of this substance induce any sensory disturbances? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 20, 2023 Share #16 Posted June 20, 2023 Oh, just saw that the camera battery is ok. Must have been that pesky battery inside the Tri-Elmar that blew up then…. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 20, 2023 Share #17 Posted June 20, 2023 52 minutes ago, Willuiijf said: I could claim my camera on the insurance but why should I ??? Is it not normal to leave your camera in the car? It’s what insurance is there for. Why buy it if you’re not going to claim on it when you have to? However, anywhere in the world, leaving valuables in a car is a risky business. Indeed, your insurance might not even pay up if the equipment were stolen from anywhere in your car as you were not in full control of it while you were not in the car too. Definitely not if it was in a visible place. I am sure that we all leave kit in the boot of the car from time to time, but it’s definitely not to be recommended and only done while understanding the risks involved. Given that Leica owners are likely to have cars worth breaking into, the risks are likely to be greater. As others have said, you’re on a hiding to nothing trying to sue Leica. This damage is patently not their fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted June 20, 2023 Share #18 Posted June 20, 2023 Is it possible this is due to faulty automobile battery? Emission of hydrogen sulfide etc? Modern cars often have the battery located in the trunk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 20, 2023 Share #19 Posted June 20, 2023 vor 55 Minuten schrieb Willuiijf: I could claim my camera on the insurance but why should I ??? Because that is the easiest and most promising way to recover your damage to the camera and lens. vor 56 Minuten schrieb pgk: The first thing that needs to be sorted out is what the white substance actually is. Could that be sunscreen lotion? Hopefully it would not stink then, so probably not. Very mysterious ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 20, 2023 Share #20 Posted June 20, 2023 We don’t know exactly where the camera was stored in the car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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