Q2 Monochrom and Q3

[Tjazz]

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Of course I just traded in my beloved Q2 in September for a Q2M, as I wanted to go deeply into the world of B&W and have my SL2-S for color. I have missed the ease of the Q2 color when traveling and so am vexed now that the Q3's arrival is imminent! Any thoughts on whether the the Q3 will have B&W conversion that is good enough to replace the Q2M or will the Mono always be something special and worth holding on to. Of course I want the Q3! But as a serious non-professional it's hard to justify three high end Leicas...Isn't it?... Thanks.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Tjazz

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[Genoweffa]

nah...go for it!

[bobtodrick]

12 minutes ago, Genoweffa said:

nah...go for it!

I would think the increased sensor size would make up for the increased resolution of your Q2M.

On the other hand dynamic range sometimes is better with a smaller sensor.

Interesting question.

[Aram Langhans]

Of course, you are asking an impossible question.  Wait until the Q3 is out and people have posted pictures to answer the question.

[Tjazz]

I specialize in impossible questions, for sure. I have so many good guitars, skis, paddle boards, etc. sitting idle and waiting their specialized turn to perform that I'm reluctant to do the same thing with Leica cameras! It is good advice to wait and see the early reviews.

[Tjazz]

PS My wife, who had studied film photography back in the day, said "you have two great cameras. Why don't you just get out and take more pictures?" She makes a good point. Too much gear rumination.

[Olaf_ZG]

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2 hours ago, Tjazz said:

PS My wife, who had studied film photography back in the day, said "you have two great cameras. Why don't you just get out and take more pictures?" She makes a good point. Too much gear rumination.

Listen to your wife, she looks smart to me.

[SrMi]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:34 PM, Tjazz said:

Of course I just traded in my beloved Q2 in September for a Q2M, as I wanted to go deeply into the world of B&W and have my SL2-S for color. I have missed the ease of the Q2 color when traveling and so am vexed now that the Q3's arrival is imminent! Any thoughts on whether the the Q3 will have B&W conversion that is good enough to replace the Q2M or will the Mono always be something special and worth holding on to. Of course I want the Q3! But as a serious non-professional it's hard to justify three high end Leicas...Isn't it?... Thanks.

Jim Kasson compared Q2M with GFX100S (same pixel pitch as the 60MP sensors). Q2M produces better results in his test:

Q2 Monochrom vs GFX 100S

Regarding DR/noise, I expect Q2M and Q3 to be similar (based on P2P measurements of M11 vs. Q2M).

[SrMi]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:11 AM, bobtodrick said:

I would think the increased sensor size would make up for the increased resolution of your Q2M.

On the other hand dynamic range sometimes is better with a smaller sensor.

Interesting question.

a) All Q2M, Q2, and Q3 sensors have the same size.

b) Lower-resolution sensors do not have better DR than higher-resolution sensors (same output size).

Edited May 24, 2023 by SrMi

[bobtodrick]

23 minutes ago, SrMi said:

a) All Q2M, Q2, and Q3 sensors have the same size.

b) Lower-resolution sensors do not have better DR than higher-resolution sensors (same output size).

I was referring to the increased number  of the Q3’s pixels…thought that was obvious.

There is no simple formula for calculating the effect of pixel size on dynamic range, but in general both large and medium size pixel sensors do well at low ISOs, but dynamic range falls more dramatically at higher ISOs for smaller pixels.…so the larger pixels of the Q2 can provide better dynamic range.

[cj3209]

The main point (IMHO) of monochrome cameras is that it forces you to be in "B&W mode", ie., you can't compare the Q3 to a Q2m.  People who think they can just convert a color file into B&W miss the point (IMHO).

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I was referring to the increased number  of the Q3’s pixels…thought that was obvious.

"Smaller sensor" means a sensor that is physically smaller in size. Words matter.

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

<snip>

There is no simple formula for calculating the effect of pixel size on dynamic range, but in general both large and medium size pixel sensors do well at low ISOs, but dynamic range falls more dramatically at higher ISOs for smaller pixels.…so the larger pixels of the Q2 can provide better dynamic range.

That is not true. A 24MP camera with the same technology has the same DR as a 60MP camera when looked at at the same output size (true for all ISOs). That has been observed in practice and measured repeatedly. For improved DR, you need larger sensors, not larger pixels.

 

[Kim Dahl]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

That is not true. A 24MP camera with the same technology has the same DR as a 60MP camera when looked at at the same output size (true for all ISOs). That has been observed in practice and measured repeatedly. For improved DR, you need larger sensors, not larger pixels.

 

Thanks for the information. It sounds logical. Does this mean that an iPhone with the same processing power will be able to have the same DR as a FF Leica/Nikon/Canon?
I know I can't compare directly, but in relation to DR, is it like this?

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

Thanks for the information. It sounds logical. Does this mean that an iPhone with the same processing power will be able to have the same DR as a FF Leica/Nikon/Canon?
I know I can't compare directly, but in relation to DR, is it like this?

No. iPhone has a much smaller sensor than FF cameras and therefore has a much smaller DR. iPhone's processing power is used to post-process the low DR image in the camera to something more acceptable. With cameras, you have to apply post-processing on your computer instead.

[NightPix]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:34 PM, Tjazz said:

Of course I just traded in my beloved Q2 in September for a Q2M, as I wanted to go deeply into the world of B&W and have my SL2-S for color. I have missed the ease of the Q2 color when traveling and so am vexed now that the Q3's arrival is imminent! Any thoughts on whether the the Q3 will have B&W conversion that is good enough to replace the Q2M or will the Mono always be something special and worth holding on to. Of course I want the Q3! But as a serious non-professional it's hard to justify three high end Leicas...Isn't it?... Thanks.

Setting aside the technicals about sensor and pixel size for the moment, I have basically the same question. I use my Q2M when I am in my b&w mind frame and for low light where it is much better than the Q2. I now travel with both the SL2 (+ lenses) and the Q2M. It would be great if the Q3 could suffice as a one camera travel kit for color, b&w, and low light. I’m waiting for more posts of real world images in b&w and low light color to see how the Q3 stacks up. Meanwhile, I’m stuck traveling heavy. 

[Chip1971]

Will there be a Q3 monochrome model?

[jaapv]

Probably in a few years time 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Aha63]

Latest red dot forum youtube one hour episode on the Q3 spend some time on comparing iq of the Q3 and Q2M. The pure monochrome camera win easily. I think one time I will want a monochrome Leica of sort but my first Leica will be a color Q3, it will make high quality bw to  

[kirkmc]

I think that, unless you're a pixel peeper, the resolution of the Q3 sufficient, compared to the Q2M, as long as you don't need the really high ISO.