50mm Summilux v1 reverse scalloped production numbers?

[mdg1371]

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I am considering adding a first version 50mm Summilux to my collection- does anyone have a rough idea of how many were produced with the reversed scalloping on the focus ring?

[luigi bertolotti]

mmhhh... though question... 🤔 I suppose they are very few, surely just a fraction of the 1st type Summilux (which is not so common by itself)

 

(if I understand well, for "reverse scalloping" you mean that the knurled surfaces are the outer ones... am I right ?)

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by luigi bertolotti

[mdg1371]

3 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

mmhhh... though question... 🤔 I suppose they are very few, surely just a fraction of the 1st type Summilux (which is not so common by itself)

 

(if I understand well, for "reverse scalloping" you mean that the knurled surfaces are the outer ones... am I right ?)

 

Correct, knurled surfaces on the raised portions.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello mdg1371,

Welcome to the Forum.

Bayonet mount black paint 50mm f1.4 Summilux 1688518 has a serial number from 1959.

Bayonet mount bright chrome 50mm f1.4 Summilux 1641148 has a serial number from 1958.

Both have smooth scallops & knurled ridges.

Both lenses are illustrated on page 23 of James Lager's "Leica Illustrated Guide III"

Bayonet mount 50mm f1.4 Summilux lenses were officially in production in 1959. Screw mount versions officially begin in 1960.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 5, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[mdg1371]

41 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello mdg1371,

Welcome to the Forum.

Bayonet mount black paint 50mm f1.4 Summilux 1688518 has a serial number from 1959.

Bayonet mount bright chrome 50mm f1.4 Summilux 1641148 has a serial number from 1958.

Both have smooth scallops & knurled ridges.

Both lenses are illustrated on page 23 of James Lager's "Leica Illustrated Guide III"

Bayonet mount 50mm f1.4 Summilux lenses were officially in production in 1959. Screw mount versions officially begin in 1960.

Best Regards,

Michael

Michael,

Thank you— I am/was referring to the two different versions of the smooth scallops and knurled ridges of the first optical version of the 50mm Summilux. Some have the knurled portions of the ring on the concave/indented part, some have the reverse, where the knurling is on the raised portions of the ring, and the concave sections are smooth. These are known as reverse scalloped models, and are fairly rare- and tend to sell,for significantly more than the standard production— they were made very early in the production run, I am just trying to figure out roughly how many were made…

Edited May 5, 2023 by mdg1371

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello mdg1371,

"Ridges" are the "peaks". "Scallops" are the "valleys". The terms are pretty much interchangeable. "Knurls" are the little raised parallel lines of metal that people grip.

The first version of the bayonet mount 50mm f2 rigid Summicron had knurled ridges & smooth scallops.

The second version of the bayonet mount 50mm f2 rigid Summicron has smooth peaks & knurled valleys.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[mdg1371]

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4 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello mdg1371,

"Ridges" are the "peaks". "Scallops" are the "valleys". The terms are pretty much interchangeable. "Knurls" are the little raised parallel lines of metal that people grip.

The first version of the bayonet mount 50mm f2 rigid Summicron had knurled ridges & smooth scallops.

The second version of the bayonet mount 50mm f2 rigid Summicron has smooth peaks & knurled valleys.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Using that nomenclature, how many 50mm Summilux version 1 were produced with knurled ridges and smooth scallops? There are some, early production examples of this, I am just trying to find a rough number.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by mdg1371

[luigi bertolotti]

The (few) ones that I have in my  records are in the 1.64x.xxx ... some are black... and also some Summarit 1,4, as well as some "0000xxx" prototypes : I have to check, but my  record probably do not exceed 10 or 12 items...

 

[UliWer]

Here is No. 1640625 which is supposed to be the 25th of production - with knurled ridges:

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If we take No. 1,688,518 shown by Lager as the highest No. we know with knurled ridges, we might guess a number of lenses in this style from Thiele's ("Großes Fabrikationsbuch Leica-Objektive, 2020) listing of four batches until No. 1,689,500 with 5900 items. Though this is very uncertain, as we don't know whether higher numbers still have this style, whether all items in the listed batches were really produced and last but not least whether  there wasn't a mix of different styles for the focus ring during the batches - which is not seldom with Leitz production of this age.  

[luigi bertolotti]

3 hours ago, mdg1371 said:

Using that nomenclature, how many 50mm Summilux version 1 were produced with knurled ridges and smooth scallops? There are some, early production examples of this, I am just trying to find a rough number.

 

My (rough) idea is that all the items of the 1st planned batch (1400 - all built ?) have knurled ridges... and also "several" of the 2nd batch (I have record of some 1644xxx with "normal" knurled scallops) , and "some" in the next batches...   for what is worth... 🙄

I have checked some prototypes and Summarits 1,4 : mix of knurlings... clearly in the factory there were deep discussions about which of the 2 configurations was more ergonomical  😁

[jc_braconi]

Like this one

 

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is different from this one

[Jetkey]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:28 PM, UliWer said:

Here is No. 1640625 which is supposed to be the 25th of production - with knurled ridges:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

If we take No. 1,688,518 shown by Lager as the highest No. we know with knurled ridges, we might guess a number of lenses in this style from Thiele's ("Großes Fabrikationsbuch Leica-Objektive, 2020) listing of four batches until No. 1,689,500 with 5900 items. Though this is very uncertain, as we don't know whether higher numbers still have this style, whether all items in the listed batches were really produced and last but not least whether  there wasn't a mix of different styles for the focus ring during the batches - which is not seldom with Leitz production of this age.  

Here is my collection. Reverse scallop focusing ring. Note the unusual engraving of DoF scale(f:1.4). Nothing like this has ever seen in series production,  this is the first example. SN:1691538.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Jetkey

[Leica_Guy_Dallas]

My v1 has the serial 1640886.  And says the production date was 1958.

 

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