Tips on buying/evaluating a used SL2

[Sohail]

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Hi,

I've got a good offer for a used SL2.

Any tips on what to look for in a used SL2? How to test the shutter, the sensor, actuations, etc.

Cheers,
Sohail

[jaapv]

If it works, it works - that is about all there is about it. Not much to test, in fact. Forget about actuations. No way to find out and the figure is not really useful. 

[SrMi]

I would inspect the sensor with a loupe to check for scratches (unlikely). Check that the wheels and switches work properly. Take an image and look at it in LCD.

[jaapv]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I would inspect the sensor with a loupe to check for scratches (unlikely). Check that the wheels and switches work properly. Take an image and look at it in LCD.

You would see that on the first small-aperture image.

[Sohail]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

If it works, it works - that is about all there is about it. Not much to test, in fact. Forget about actuations. No way to find out and the figure is not really useful. 

My current SL2 (now OK) actually crashed on me for no apparent reason. I had to get it fixed in Germany. Point being: the "if it works, it works" test is no indication of any potential underlying issues. 

[jaapv]

And was that failure predictable by a "test"? I think not.

[cj3209]

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I bought quite a bit of my Leica gear used and I depended on the seller's reputation (how long have they been selling, etc.).  Even then, you just never know.

I've also sold items that when told they were defective (like a battery I thought was almost new) I took them back - Karma.

 

 

[jaapv]

What helps is buying from a reputed dealer with a guarantee.

[LocalHero1953]

I would buy it if you have the opportunity to get a refund if it doesn't work properly after a week's intensive use.

I would buy it if it was from someone I knew I could trust to take it back if it didn't work properly after a week's intensive use.

Otherwise I would only buy it if from a commercial source with a minimum of a 3 months warranty.

[kobra]

9 hours ago, Sohail said:

Hi,

I've got a good offer for a used SL2.

Any tips on what to look for in a used SL2? How to test the shutter, the sensor, actuations, etc.

Cheers,
Sohail

@Sohail - sorry to hear of your issues! I dropped my Q2 last year and had to send it to NJ, USA for repairs. They were slow, but they did send me a loaner camera 

I've bought an SL2 and several Leica lenses; all used, and all from Leica dealers in the USA. So far, all have been very good. 

One note; I've got a line on an SL2-S, and given our discussion on another thread, I am really tempted to give it a try to see if it really is a better all around camera (especially in low light). Are you also considering an SL2-S, or have you decided to stick with the SL2? 

Best,

Brad

 

[Sohail]

2 minutes ago, kobra said:

@Sohail - sorry to hear of your issues! I dropped my Q2 last year and had to send it to NJ, USA for repairs. They were slow, but they did send me a loaner camera 

I've bought an SL2 and several Leica lenses; all used, and all from Leica dealers in the USA. So far, all have been very good. 

One note; I've got a line on an SL2-S, and given our discussion on another thread, I am really tempted to give it a try to see if it really is a better all around camera (especially in low light). Are you also considering an SL2-S, or have you decided to stick with the SL2? 

Best,

Brad

 

It was a while ago (my SL2) but it's now all fixed. 

On whether to go with another SL2 or an SL2-S, I've been vacillating on that with no easy answer in sight.

I'm tending towards the SL2. The thread I initiated on the ISO performance just got too technical and it doesn't seem to be conclusive. Further, the susceptibility to moiré on the SL2-S is also a fear. I'm also thinking about resale value. It makes sense to go for an SL2 and keep one of them as a second body when the SL3 comes out. If you ask me tomorrow, I'll have changed my mind.  I guess it depends on how good an offer you get on a used SL2 or SL2-S.

Also, I was hoping for a more uplifting discussion  here on testing a used SL2. Perhaps taking a few shots to see if the sensor is clean. Maybe against a white lit-background at different apertures.

[jaapv]

In my experience moiré on a 24 sensor ( better called colour aliasing) is not very frequent - mostly fine structures like bird’s feathers and fabrics and easily corrected in postprocessing, some DNG converters are more prone than others. . Some programs even have dedicated controls for the purpose. If I have to balance this against the drawbacks of high resolution sensors like more visible motion blur, slower processing and RAM demand on the computer, I would always go for a 24 MP one. After all, the need for extreme pixel counts is quite limited and mostly catered for with tools like Topaz Megapixel and Adobe Enhance. The most obvious advantage of an overdose of pixels is cropping and possibly high-detail landscape. 
The physical condition of the sensor can easily be checked by a sensor loupe or even a surgical microscope and a blurred shot with a wideangle at smallest aperture against an even background. 

[kobra]

49 minutes ago, Sohail said:

It was a while ago (my SL2) but it's now all fixed. 

On whether to go with another SL2 or an SL2-S, I've been vacillating on that with no easy answer in sight.

I'm tending towards the SL2. The thread I initiated on the ISO performance just got too technical and it doesn't seem to be conclusive. Further, the susceptibility to moiré on the SL2-S is also a fear. I'm also thinking about resale value. It makes sense to go for an SL2 and keep one of them as a second body when the SL3 comes out. If you ask me tomorrow, I'll have changed my mind.  I guess it depends on how good an offer you get on a used SL2 or SL2-S.

Also, I was hoping for a more uplifting discussion  here on testing a used SL2. Perhaps taking a few shots to see if the sensor is clean. Maybe against a white lit-background at different apertures.

Sorry I don't have a good test; I did basic tests, as you and others have said... I verified that the physical operation was ok, did take some white wall photos to see if there were any spots on the sensor, but that was it. Actually, since batteries are almost $300USD, I thought it was worth testing how old the battery was or it's total capacity left, but I couldn't find anything on how to test that. 

To me it was important that I was buying from a reputable dealer who states that they inspect and test cameras before they resell them. I guess my thought was they are the experts so that is part of what I was paying for and that any test I did was likely less than what they can do. So far, the camera has been flawless (~4 months I've had it). Do you have a reputable dealer with a fair return policy where you are? 

 

-------------------------------

... slightly off topic, so skip if not interested, but below is my thought process in case it is helpful... to help me decide, I've started to look at the types of photography that I do...

Wildlife: SL2 resolution is better for digital zooming (cropping) so now the 90-280 on the SL2 will act like a longer lens (ie, 135-420 in APS-C mode at 20mpx with great light gathering). OTOH, the SL2-S will pair better with the Leica 100-400 as the ISO can be raised when the lens cannot gather as much light... I like the 90-280 better, so likely the SL2 wins here, and I don't do BIF. 

Landscape (good light): for the size I print, perhaps there is not enough difference? I am maturing and improving my craft, so perhaps larger prints will become more important this year, so again the SL2 has a slight advantage.

Landscape (poor light): most times the advantage is SL2-S for high ISO performance

Night Sky / Astro: again likely the high ISO performance gives the edge to SL2-S

Events, concerts (often indoors, usually variable and/or low lighting): SL2-S again for the high ISO performance 

People/portraits/travel: this is such a mix, and where I often use the Q2. (unlike you, I am inexperienced with portraits so it is just a part of what I do). Again, a big of a guess, but the SL2-S is likely a better all round camera here. I originally selected the SL2 as it has a similar sensor to the Q2, both good and bad. But I actually think the Q2 has a slight edge at ISO3200+ which surprised me. The SL2-S just seems more adaptable. 

A couple of differences I did NOT focus on: while file sizes are substantially different, with the price of fast processing and cheap storage, I don't see that as impacting my decision. Also, I don't think there is enough differences in the AF to include as a deciding factor. 

Ok, there's more, but I think that describes where I am right now; IOW mostly it is impossible for me to pick just one as I enjoy many types of photography. So, my decision comes down to; if I can justify 2 bodies, I am very tempted to have an SL2 and an SL2-S. The cameras handle exactly the same, take all the same accessories, and seem to produce images that are very similar in "look". If I thought the SL3 was to be announced shortly, then perhaps just sticking with my SL2 for now would be best and keep it as a second body later. However, a couple of Leica dealers have suggested they do not expect the SL3 until late this year, or perhaps even 2024. So, that is why I am inclined to buy a used SL2-S as a second body now; hopefully by the time the SL3 comes out, I will have used both bodies (SL2 and SL2-S) extensively and not lose too much if trading up due to buying used. What I don't think I would do is to buy a second SL2 as the backup body; just too many reasons to want the SL2-S. Of course, I may buy the SL2-S and find out that the SL3 is coming soon, haha! 

-------------------------------

 

Brad

[jaapv]

The battery condition can be checked in a Nitecore charger. In Europe the batteries cost about 150 Euro. Still pretty expensive. 
BTW if you are buying used the resale value is moot as the resale value difference as it is compensated by the price difference when buying. 

[kobra]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The battery condition can be checked in a Nitecore charger. In Europe the batteries cost about 150 Euro. Still pretty expensive. 
BTW if you are buying used the resale value is moot as the resale value difference as it is compensated by the price difference when buying. 

Interesting; I don't have the nitecore charger, but that might be a good idea! 

I'm not sure I understand about resale; are you saying that if you buy used you will get less resale later than if you buy new today? I guess I'm assuming that if I kept it for a year or more that the end resale value is about the same for each (now both are used), but if I saved 25-30% off new today I would lose less later. Am I misunderstanding? Thanks again!

Brad

[Sohail]

1 hour ago, kobra said:

Sorry I don't have a good test; I did basic tests, as you and others have said... I verified that the physical operation was ok, did take some white wall photos to see if there were any spots on the sensor, but that was it. Actually, since batteries are almost $300USD, I thought it was worth testing how old the battery was or it's total capacity left, but I couldn't find anything on how to test that. 

To me it was important that I was buying from a reputable dealer who states that they inspect and test cameras before they resell them. I guess my thought was they are the experts so that is part of what I was paying for and that any test I did was likely less than what they can do. So far, the camera has been flawless (~4 months I've had it). Do you have a reputable dealer with a fair return policy where you are? 

 

-------------------------------

... slightly off topic, so skip if not interested, but below is my thought process in case it is helpful... to help me decide, I've started to look at the types of photography that I do...

Wildlife: SL2 resolution is better for digital zooming (cropping) so now the 90-280 on the SL2 will act like a longer lens (ie, 135-420 in APS-C mode at 20mpx with great light gathering). OTOH, the SL2-S will pair better with the Leica 100-400 as the ISO can be raised when the lens cannot gather as much light... I like the 90-280 better, so likely the SL2 wins here, and I don't do BIF. 

Landscape (good light): for the size I print, perhaps there is not enough difference? I am maturing and improving my craft, so perhaps larger prints will become more important this year, so again the SL2 has a slight advantage.

Landscape (poor light): most times the advantage is SL2-S for high ISO performance

Night Sky / Astro: again likely the high ISO performance gives the edge to SL2-S

Events, concerts (often indoors, usually variable and/or low lighting): SL2-S again for the high ISO performance 

People/portraits/travel: this is such a mix, and where I often use the Q2. (unlike you, I am inexperienced with portraits so it is just a part of what I do). Again, a big of a guess, but the SL2-S is likely a better all round camera here. I originally selected the SL2 as it has a similar sensor to the Q2, both good and bad. But I actually think the Q2 has a slight edge at ISO3200+ which surprised me. The SL2-S just seems more adaptable. 

A couple of differences I did NOT focus on: while file sizes are substantially different, with the price of fast processing and cheap storage, I don't see that as impacting my decision. Also, I don't think there is enough differences in the AF to include as a deciding factor. 

Ok, there's more, but I think that describes where I am right now; IOW mostly it is impossible for me to pick just one as I enjoy many types of photography. So, my decision comes down to; if I can justify 2 bodies, I am very tempted to have an SL2 and an SL2-S. The cameras handle exactly the same, take all the same accessories, and seem to produce images that are very similar in "look". If I thought the SL3 was to be announced shortly, then perhaps just sticking with my SL2 for now would be best and keep it as a second body later. However, a couple of Leica dealers have suggested they do not expect the SL3 until late this year, or perhaps even 2024. So, that is why I am inclined to buy a used SL2-S as a second body now; hopefully by the time the SL3 comes out, I will have used both bodies (SL2 and SL2-S) extensively and not lose too much if trading up due to buying used. What I don't think I would do is to buy a second SL2 as the backup body; just too many reasons to want the SL2-S. Of course, I may buy the SL2-S and find out that the SL3 is coming soon, haha! 

-------------------------------

 

Brad

When it comes to cropping, I'm a bit of a purist. Almost as an article of faith, I want to get it all right in camera. So, ideally, I want to use every available pixel at my disposal and also ensure that I'm being faithful to the focal length of the prime lenses I've also invested in. As mad as that might seem to some, I'm aware of course that at the end of the day, it's the photo that matters. So for me, If I've bought into an SL2, I intend to use every bit of that 47MP sensor.

I'm not much of a landscape shooter but for me, it's a no-brainer. The SL2 all the way. The SL2-S has no business here.

For portraits, how much resolution do you really need to capture a face? 25 MP is more than enough. For environmental portraits too. 

It really comes down to the lowlight capabilities of SL2-S. It's the only factor that might sway me. BTW, I was looking back at some of my old Q1 shots today. At 3200 ISO, I got some really decent shots -- even at 6400 ISO. With my SL2 and Q2, it's just about tolerable. I think I could live with it.

So right now, I think the way forward for me is to get another SL2 and then sell one of them when the SL3 comes out. Hopefully, it will have better performance at higher ISO levels. If it's just more resolution, I'll pass.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Sohail

[kobra]

2 minutes ago, Sohail said:

When it comes to cropping, I'm a bit of a purist. Almost as an article of faith, I prefer to get it all right in camera. Ideally, I want to use every available pixel but also at the same time stay faithful to the focal length of prime lenses I've also invested in. As mada as that might seem, I'm aware of course that at the end of the day, it's the photo that matters. So for me If I've bought into an SL2, I intend to use every bit of that 47MP sensor.

I'm not much of a landscape shooter but for me, it's a no-brainer. The SL2. The SL2-S has no business here.

For portraits, how much resolution do you really need to capture a face? 25 MP is more than enough. For environmental portraits too. 

It really comes down to the lowlight capabilities of SL2-S. It's the only factor that might sway me. BTW, I was looking back at some of my old Q1 shots today. At 3200 ISO, I got some really decent shots -- even at 6400 ISO. With my SL2 and Q2, it's just about tolerable. So I could live with it.

So right now, I think the way forward for me is to get another SL2 and then sell one of them when the SL3 comes out. Hopefully, it will have better performance at higher ISO levels. 

Thanks @Sohail - I enjoy seeing how others evaluate their choices. 

Brad

[jaapv]

25 minutes ago, kobra said:

Interesting; I don't have the nitecore charger, but that might be a good idea! 

I'm not sure I understand about resale; are you saying that if you buy used you will get less resale later than if you buy new today? I guess I'm assuming that if I kept it for a year or more that the end resale value is about the same for each (now both are used), but if I saved 25-30% off new today I would lose less later. Am I misunderstanding? Thanks again!

Brad

No, I am saying that if you buy used the first owner will have paid the depreciation. So it doesn't really matter whether there is a difference in resale price between one model or the other. 

[jaapv]

44 minutes ago, kobra said:

The SL2-S has no business here.

Excuse me? Are you saying that there were no fine landscapes made before the advent of extremely hi-res cameras? I will cancel my membership of NPN immediately The most expensive photograph in the world, Rhine II by Gursky, is resolution-wise, frankly speaking, sh!t;  a 1999 scan from film, primitively photoshopped... 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, Sohail said:

Also, I was hoping for a more uplifting discussion  here on testing a used SL2. Perhaps taking a few shots to see if the sensor is clean. Maybe against a white lit-background at different apertures.

I was puzzled by your question, because I don't think there is much to test in a SL2/SL2-S than in any other digital camera, and I think you are already a very experienced photographer. And digital cameras are far easier to check than film cameras, because you can see the results immediately.

There are no recognised failure modes for the SL2 OR SL2-S. You read the occasional failure report, but nothing consistent.

In your shoes I would:

• Inspect the sensor directly, preferably with a loupe and a rocket blower, to check that there are no marks that are not light dust.
• Take shot of a plain surface, out of focus, or a clear sky, at the smallest possible aperture: inspect the image for sensor marks and dust. You will certainly see them, so this test is not a great help. I prefer to inspect the sensor directly.
• Pick a scene with constant illumination: in manual mode check the exposure (with the internal meter) and compare it with another camera you trust;
• With the same scene, take images with stop-wise increasing aperture and decreasing shutter speed, to check if the mechanical shutter speed is consistent (the exposure should remain the same).
• Do the same with the electronic shutter.
• Take a shot of a plain evenly coloured and lit surface, and examine the image at 100% for missing pixels. 
• Take a L-mount AF lens, preferably a Leica, and test if AFs works.
• Check if all the buttons work. By default they should all have some functions assigned to them.
• Check the battery and SD cards insert and can be removed properly.

After that I would just learn to use it as I wish to use it and see if there are any problems. I would just use it intensively for the first couple of weeks. And read the manual in detail.

Beyond that, 'testing paranoia', a recognised mental condition, sets in.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by LocalHero1953