Three -D Concept Screenfree Cameras: M-A-D, LeicaOne, and E-D

[Datsch]

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I've been having fun recently designing cameras and I thought I would share here for your enjoyment.

In my various fields of interest I often have trouble finding exactly what I want so I design products just to see what I really care about. The whole process improves my understanding and I recommend giving it a go -- really specifying the details forces you to think all the elements through.

Anyway,  as you might guess from my avatar, I don't like menus or having too many options so I ended up doing three -D concept screen-free cameras:

• The M-A-D is taking 'make it like a film camera experience' to the maximum, very retro and haptic
• The LeicaOne is the most minimalist M I could think of. It only has one button.
• The E-D is an EVF camera (I think it would be called E- after Elektronische Sucher, rather than M)

What would your dream camera(s) look like?

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[Photoworks]

looks cool.

what about the design of the base plate?

[Datsch]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

looks cool.

what about the design of the base plate?

The M-A-D would have a traditional M-A/M10 baseplate. The One and E-D would be based on the M11 and so have that drop out battery etc.

[Qlan]

Love the M-A-D concept. Not sure about the other two that forces auto-iso, auto-white balance, only center weight metering, etc. Why not also make it customizable via the Fotos app?

[TeleElmar135mm]

I take the first one - or the second with the lever to start the camera (like the M5/6 or the fomer SLs) and as a side effect I need no thumbs up anymore  - but beware us from the third - if there is a M God ...

 

P-S. Is there a Tri-X battery? 

[Datsch]

9 hours ago, Qlan said:

Love the M-A-D concept. Not sure about the other two that forces auto-iso, auto-white balance, only center weight metering, etc. Why not also make it customizable via the Fotos app?

Note that only the LeicaOne has Auto-ISO as a fixed parameter. The E-D allows instant manual change of ISO without even moving your finger from the shutter button ... if you do set it to auto iso then the max is 6400.

A good question, thank you. My core principle is that shooting functions should only be available in hardware. A setting that is buried in a menu, in this case also on another device, is a niggle in your mind when shooting. Am I still on AWB or is is set to something else? How do I check, oh get the phone out, link up (takes ten seconds) etc etc. BTW, when you are DNG only the WB does not matter much and AWB does a fine job almost all the time, and you will set in post anyway.

Some of us who have the M-D found that the M10-D with its use of a (simplified) Fotos app to be too complicated -- we come to the -D concept cameras to get away from menus ...

 

8 hours ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

I take the first one - or the second with the lever to start the camera (like the M5/6 or the fomer SLs) and as a side effect I need no thumbs up anymore  - but beware us from the third - if there is a M God ...

 

P-S. Is there a Tri-X battery? 

Sure there is a Tri-X, but the Velvia is £200 extra ,,, 😉

I know what you mean about the EVF one ... but I would like to try WYSIWYG focus and exposure sometime. Having two cameras, one OVF,  the other EVF,  is not too extravagant really ...

Edited March 29, 2023 by Datsch

[newtoleica]

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This is a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing. I had an M10-D briefly a couple of years ago. I loved the haptics of the camera, but as it was my only digital M I needed the live view sometimes and also wanted to check focus/lighting occasionally so sold it. It would make a good 2nd body, but the prices now are way beyond what is in any sense value on the 2nd hand market..... Collectors....

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Datsch:

(...)

Sure there is a Tri-X, but the Velvia is £200 extra ,,, 😉

(...)

Who the hell needs Velvia? A hole to fill in HC-110 is the 200 Pounds worth  and the ibis makes the shaking every 30sec. 

[pippy]

19 hours ago, Datsch said:

I've been having fun recently designing cameras and I thought I would share here for your enjoyment......What would your dream camera(s) look like?

Interesting question.

I've given some semi-serious thought in terms of how to improve the M-D Typ-262 (which is as near-perfect as I could wish) and, to my slight surprise, there are several areas where it could, IMO, be 'bettered'.

First-off is the re-instatement of the OVF frameline window. The electronic frame-lines would be retained but behind the plastic now there is a solar-panel photo-cell which recharges the battery on a constant basis. This also means the ugly large pustule is replaced by the more familiar (to those of a certain age) smaller screw.

The 'Exposure Guesstimate' circular window is thrown in the complete-waste-of-space bin and a sense of plain decency returns to that corner of the top-plate.

Next - but not visible here - is the return of the wind-on lever which, in addition to cocking the shutter, is also used to generate electricity to help in recharging the battery pack. I wouldn't use the lever as an On/Off switch in deference to the eye-safety of 'left-eye-photographers'. Instead the small 'Advance/Rewind' switch familiar to film-M shooters would serve this function; '0' (if visible) indicates 'Off' and 'I' (ditto) indicates 'On'. In the mock-up below, therefore, the camera is 'On' as the '0' indicator is hidden by the lever.

The 'A' setting on the shutter-speed dial would be replaced with an 'S' which would activate the self-timer. This position would also be used for 'Sensor-Clean'.

The rear-wheel carbuncle on the back-right of the top-plate would join the 'Guesstimate Exposure' window in the Trash Can.

Apart from those changes in function settings the only other alterations over the actual M-D Typ-262 would be of the cosmetic variety. All chrome-ware - ISO Dial; hot-shoe; strap-lugs; base-plate locating lug etc...etc. would be finished in Black-Chrome. It would look vaguely like this;

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Philip.

Edited March 29, 2023 by pippy

[Datsch]

20 hours ago, pippy said:

First-off is the re-instatement of the OVF frameline window. The electronic frame-lines would be retained but behind the plastic now there is a solar-panel photo-cell which recharges the battery on a constant basis. This also means the ugly large pustule is replaced by the more familiar (to those of a certain age) smaller screw.

The 'Exposure Guesstimate' circular window is thrown in the complete-waste-of-space bin and a sense of plain decency returns to that corner of the top-plate.

Next - but not visible here - is the return of the wind-on lever which, in addition to cocking the shutter, is also used to generate electricity to help in recharging the battery pack. I wouldn't use the lever as an On/Off switch in deference to the eye-safety of 'left-eye-photographers'. Instead the small 'Advance/Rewind' switch familiar to film-M shooters would serve this function; '0' (if visible) indicates 'Off' and 'I' (ditto) indicates 'On'. In the mock-up below, therefore, the camera is 'On' as the '0' indicator is hidden by the lever.

The 'A' setting on the shutter-speed dial would be replaced with an 'S' which would activate the self-timer. This position would also be used for 'Sensor-Clean'.

The rear-wheel carbuncle on the back-right of the top-plate would join the 'Guesstimate Exposure' window in the Trash Can.

Apart from those changes in function settings the only other alterations over the actual M-D Typ-262 would be of the cosmetic variety. All chrome-ware - ISO Dial; hot-shoe; strap-lugs; base-plate locating lug etc...etc. would be finished in Black-Chrome. It would look vaguely like this;

What a beautiful rendering of interesting ideas! I'm so glad the throught process took you on an interesting journey.

I like the idea of energy autonomy via a solar cell and kinetic charging from the thumblever. Seiko used to make a 'Thermic' range of watches that drew power from body heat; you could add that as well. A wind turbine mounted on the hot shoe would probably be impractical though ... 🙂

The Brightness Sensor does perform a semi-useful function -- it controls the brightness of the LED display and framelines so you aren't dazzled by them in dark situations. Put your finger over it while looking through the OVF at a  bright scene and you  will see what I mean.

I never thought of using a repurposed Rewind Release Lever as an on/off button before -- it meets my requirement of being able to do it with one's right hand and could also eliminate the bezel switch around the shutter button (especially if self timer is now on the shutter wheel as you have it)

I know you are manual exposure only. You wouldn't want 1/8000 in the extra slot that arises from removing A mode? Instead of S? On a sunny day at f1.4 it would come in handy ...

I don't use the thumbwheel except for time setting and a oncce-in-a-blue-moon exp comp but I find the nub a useful grip sometimes. I wouldn't miss it though.

And finally is it a mix of black paint brass plates and black chrome details? I think brassing is overrated, myself. My dad's pentax SLR from 1963 is black paint and it shows only small signs of brassing. The M-D's black paint seems a lot more delicate than that.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Datsch

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Datsch said:

What a beautiful rendering of interesting ideas! I'm so glad the throught process took you on an interesting journey.

I like the idea of energy autonomy via a solar cell and kinetic charging from the thumblever. Seiko used to make a 'Thermic' range of watches that drew power from body heat; you could add that as well. A wind turbine mounted on the hot shoe would probably be impractical though ... 🙂

The Brightness Sensor does perform a semi-useful function -- it controls the brightness of the LED display and framelines so you aren't dazzled by them in dark situations. Put your finger over it while looking through the OVF at a  bright scene and you  will see what I mean.

I never thought of using a repurposed Rewind Release Lever as an on/off button before -- it meets my requirement of being able to do it with one's right hand and could also eliminate the bezel switch around the shutter button (especially if self timer is now on the shutter wheel as you have it)

I know you are manual exposure only. You wouldn't want 1/8000 in the extra slot that arises from removing A mode? Instead of S? On a sunny day at f1.4 it would come in handy ...

I don't use the thumbwheel except for time setting and a oncce-in-a-blue-moon exp comp but I find the nub a useful grip sometimes. I wouldn't miss it though.

And finally is it a mix of black paint brass plates and black chrome details? I think brassing is overrated, myself. My dad's pentax SLR from 1963 is black paint and it shows only small signs of brassing. The M-D's black paint seems a lot more delicate than that.

Thanks, Datsch, for the response and the comments you have made in relation to some of the specification changes as listed. In return - and going forward - here are a few ideas;

As far as the Brightness Sensor / Dimmer Control is concerned I would suggest that function could be handed-over to the Solar Panel/Photo Cell circuitry as it will already be, in effect, measuring ambient light-levels.

Yes; I thought keeping the Off/On switch within reach of the index finger of one's right hand would be very desireable and shifting it to the A/R-style lever would allow for the deletion of the current collar. Which brings us to the shutter-speed dial. OK; I was just being slightly mischievous and know that abandoning the 'A' setting might raise a few eyebrows so how about ditching the 8 seconds option and keeping the 'A'?

Hmmm.....the choice of finish. I'm neither here nor there as far as 'Brassing' is concerned(*). I prefer Black Paint because I happen to like the glossier finish of B-P over the matt black of B-Chrome. A very durable B-P coating, if such a thing could be formulated, would be perfect. It should be noted that, AFAICT, the BP finish of the digital M bodies is nowhere near as high-gloss as that seen on the likes of the MP film bodies.

Curiously of the three B-P digi-M cameras I've owned the finish of all three has aged rather differently from one to the next. The M8.2's paint went very glossy very rapidly and the edges brassed-up - very smoothly - in a similarly rapid fashion. The finish of my M9-P was far more durable and when it was traded-in looked almost 'as-new'. So much so that the dealership double-checked the shutter-count because they couldn't understand how there could be so little paint-wear on a camera which had accrued nigh-on 80,000 shutter actuations. Finally; the finish of my M-D 262 is somewhere in between these others. It isn't wearing anywhere near as quickly as the 8 and although there's little sign of any brassing taking place the finish does seem to be more prone to accidental chipping. Perhaps the paint-formula is more durable than that of the 8 but has a less-strong adhesive/binding quality on the brass plates in comparison to the 9?

Incidentally just a couple of small details as far as mixing B-P and B-Chr. on the same body is conncerned. The first is that the M-D is the only one of these three which has a chrome-finished accessory shoe; those on the others were black-chrome. Secondly; when Leica brought out the black-paint M4 the cameras had chrome-plated strap lugs. Later in the evolution of the M4 leica introduced the black-chrome finish and M4 bodies in this finish had (according to Mr. Rogliatti) black-chrome strap-lugs.

Philip.

EDIT : * In point of fact in my youth I used to retouch the 'brassy' bits of my B-P Nikons as I thought they looked rather shabby. Eventually I realised that I was just wasting my time and let the things age as they would. Just for fun here's a snap of my first Nikon. I've had this F since '79/'80. It's currently loaded with Ilford XP2;

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Edited March 30, 2023 by pippy

[grahamc]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:09 AM, Datsch said:

The M-A-D would have a traditional M-A/M10 baseplate. 

I'll take one !

Edited March 30, 2023 by grahamc

[Datsch]

43 minutes ago, pippy said:

As far as the Brightness Sensor / Dimmer Control is concerned I would suggest that function could be handed-over to the Solar Panel/Photo Cell circuitry as it will already be, in effect, measuring ambient light-levels.

Yes; I thought keeping the Off/On switch within reach of the index finger of one's right hand would be very desireable and shifting it to the A/R-style lever would allow for the deletion of the current collar. Which brings us to the shutter-speed dial. OK; I was just being slightly mischievous and know that abandoning the 'A' setting might raise a few eyebrows so how about ditching the 8 seconds option and keeping the 'A'?

Good point on the ambient light sensor / solar panel link up.

So the shutter wheel would have A and S on it -- but what would the shutter speed be on 'S'? And what would the selftimer release time be in seconds?

[Datsch]

40 minutes ago, grahamc said:

I'll take one !

Graham, just send me your M-A, your M-D, some duct tape and a hammer and I'll see what I can do to cobble together a Franken-M-A-D. No warranty on it, mind ...

[grahamc]

24 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Graham, just send me your M-A, your M-D, some duct tape and a hammer and I'll see what I can do to cobble together a Franken-M-A-D. No warranty on it, mind ...

LOL.  I've fixed more complicated things with Duct Tape, so yes - sure !

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Datsch said:

..A wind turbine mounted on the hot shoe would probably be impractical though...

Hmmm...I'll get back to you on that!

1 hour ago, Datsch said:

...So the shutter wheel would have A and S on it -- but what would the shutter speed be on 'S'? And what would the selftimer release time be in seconds?...

As Captain Mainwaring would have said; "Well done, Pike; I was waiting to see who would spot my deliberate mistake..."..................

OK; slight re-think. A/R ('Off/On') lever now becomes 'Off/On/Self-Timer' and, reversing the function of the indications the lever is now pushed to cover the appropriate letter. 'S' is over towards the edge and camera is, of course, switched 'On'; '0' (Off) is still top-centre; 'I' (On) is still towards the lens. Shutter-Speed is set as usual when using Self-Timer position (see new 'S' marking in attached pic). The timer would retain the 12 second setting from the original M-D.

An accessory is offered which can act as both a wind-turbine and a solar-power gatherer. In a nod to Leica's rich history this dual-purpose power unit takes its styling cues from the CEYAL flash of the 1950's.

Updating my earlier (Pat. Pend.) invention the new M-D would look like this;

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The camera as depicted above (stating the Bleeding Obvious) is in 'Wind-Turbine' mode. To switch over to 'Solar-Gatherer' setting a small device - visually remarkably similar to an old flashbulb - is screwed into the locating well atop the cylindrical part. Screwing-in this device also triggers an internal micro-switch which releases the 'missing' six vanes which will subsequently swing into position.

Philip.

Edited March 30, 2023 by pippy

[jakontil]

This is too good to be true but take my money for the M-A-D ! Madddd

[Datsch]

5 hours ago, pippy said:

An accessory is offered which can act as both a wind-turbine and a solar-power gatherer.

Perfect for Landscape photography!

Inspired by Cretan windmills!

Charge your EV with your camera if you run out of range in the middle of nowhere!

Attract rare bird species close enough to get a good shot even with a 35mm lens and then pick feathers and gore out of your hair as they are shredded by the turbine!

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[hdmesa]

Cool ideas, though I would change the MAD (angry) and ED (erectile dysfunction) acronyms 🤪

My favorite idea is the hybrid joystick shutter release. That should be implemented ASAP on the next M and Q cameras, in my opinion. Brilliant.